SWR Class 458/4s: fleet status and withdrawal updates

[WWTownEnth]

Status of fleet

458401 stored at Bournemouth
458402 In passenger service
458403 stored at Bournemouth
458404 In passenger service
458405 stored at Bournemouth
458406 stored at Bournemouth
458407 stored at Bournemouth
458408 stored at Strawberry Hill
458409 stored at Strawberry Hill
458410 stored at Bournemouth
458411 stored at Bournemouth
458412 In passenger service
458413 stored at Strawberry Hill
458414 In passenger service
458415 In passenger service
458416 stored at Strawberry Hill
458417 stored at Bournemouth
458418 stored at Bournemouth
458419 stored at Bournemouth
458420 stored at Bournemouth
458421 In passenger service
458422 stored at Bournemouth
458423 In passenger service
458424 stored at Strawberry Hill
458425 stored at Bournemouth
458426 stored at Wimbledon
458427 stored at Strawberry Hill
458428 stored at Strawberry Hill

7/28 in passenger service
13/28 stored at Bournemouth
7/28 stored at Strawberry Hill
1/28 stored at Wimbledon

 

[Siemens Staines]

458401 has been out of service since 11.08.25. I believe it was being used as a source of spares, but I don't know whether that is still the case or if it will ever return to service. The Feb LTP diagrams, which predate the current low availability, reduced the number of diagrams from 24 to 22 which may be an indication that it isn't going to return to service any time soon.

 

[Dx1998]

405 and 409 havn't been allocated any work since 24/2 and 25/2 respectively.
Just over a month now with no allocations.

 

[AlistairCowell]

You should be getting spares from now withdrawn Class 458/5s, not 458401!

 

[adc82140]

The 458/5s are off lease, so they are not SWR's to steal parts from.

 

[fgwrich]

The 458/5s are off lease, so they are not SWR's to steal parts from.

Depends though, Porterbrook could always sell them back effectively a Christmas tree if they see no future for the 458/5s other than scrap.

 

[455_Maniac]

Depends though, Porterbrook could always sell them back effectively a Christmas tree if they see no future for the 458/5s other than scrap.

If they were to remove the ex 460 cars, 458 529 & 530 would most likely be the best options for a Christmas tree, as units 531-6 are all made up of ex 460 cars, meaning they would be pretty much useless

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Depends though, Porterbrook could always sell them back effectively a Christmas tree if they see no future for the 458/5s other than scrap

What's the point? I would politely suggest that the bigger picture has moved on, and 701's are now the main focus, as was always intended when SWR took over from SWT. Knowing Wimbledon depot quite well, I think they will be glad to get shot of old spares/junk that is no longer required and free up some siding/floor space.

 

[NSE]

I may have missed it, but are these getting withdrawn? If so, why? I feel like they’re perfectly suitable units (far more suitable than the 701’s for services like Reading). Are they just surplus and non-standard and so off for t’chop?

 

[DelW]

I may have missed it, but are these getting withdrawn? If so, why? I feel like they’re perfectly suitable units (far more suitable than the 701’s for services like Reading). Are they just surplus and non-standard and so off for t’chop?

They were converted for use on the Portsmouth Direct, but it's subsequently been stated that as 12 car sets they're slightly too long for the signal positions at various locations. Despite many services on the Direct being 8 cars currently, this has apparently ruled out their use there.

With SWR's timetables still featuring many of the Covid era cuts to services, the combined fleet of Desiros and 701s is bigger than needed for the third-rail network. The 458/4s are the easiest ones to dispense with.

 

[Goldfish62]

I may have missed it, but are these getting withdrawn? If so, why? I feel like they’re perfectly suitable units (far more suitable than the 701’s for services like Reading). Are they just surplus and non-standard and so off for t’chop?

As a Reading line user I disagree. The 8-coach 458/4s with a mainline interior not designed for high-capacity suburban services are simply not up to the job. The 10-car 701s with their substantial capacity and rapid acceleration away from frequent stops are far more suitable.

 

[455_Maniac]

@WWTownEnth

405 and 409 havn't been allocated any work since 24/2 and 25/2 respectively.
Just over a month now with no allocations.

No idea if you have seen this or not but you might want to update the list

I suspect SWR's game-plan is to get all the 701/0s into service (of which there are only 4 left in storage, 12 on testing/training duties and 44 in service) before introducing the 701/5s, so it may be a few weeks before we start seeing 458/4s sent for storage.. however I am not 100% certain on this.

 

[NSEWonderer]

As a Reading line user I disagree. The 8-coach 458/4s with a mainline interior not designed for high-capacity suburban services are simply not up to the job. The 10-car 701s with their substantial capacity and rapid acceleration away from frequent stops are far more suitable.

Agreed especially on weybridges. 458/4s after the regearing ontop of poor traction packages are inferior to 701s.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

As a Reading line user I disagree. The 8-coach 458/4s with a mainline interior not designed for high-capacity suburban services are simply not up to the job. The 10-car 701s with their substantial capacity and rapid acceleration away from frequent stops are far more suitable.

Agree. If anyone has waited at Twickers or Richmond (or even as far West as Virginia W or Staines) in the a.m peak for a Waterloo bound train, one will understand why the SW 10 car suburban schemes over recent years, including that from 2014 (5 car 458 etc) in SWT days, gave priority to lengthening Windsor side services. The knock on of other stock being cascaded in the main suburban area was secondary to the Windsor side issues of overcrowding.

 

[NSE]

Oh I don’t disagree 701’s are far superior for the Windsor Lines in general, especially the Weybridge and Windsor services. I commuted daily to Whitton & Twickenham for nearly five years, so I’m well aware of the traffic levels. For the Reading service, I appreciate 701’s hoover up the Richmond and Twickenham passengers etc, however I wouldn’t want to spend the full Reading - Waterloo journey on the those seats. I find them cramped and squashed. Personally I’d still prefer the proper 2+2 seating on a 458/4 or a 450.

 

[adc82140]

I think the general assumption is that anyone wishing to travel from Reading all the way to London will spend 25 mins on an IET to Paddington.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I suspect SWR's game-plan is to get all the 701/0s into service (of which there are only 4 left in storage, 12 on testing/training duties and 44 in service) before introducing the 701/5s, so it may be a few weeks before we start seeing 458/4s sent for storage.. however I am not 100% certain on this.

I have 43 in service; am I missing one or are you counting 701 028 in that total?

 

[NSEWonderer]

There's not a lot of passengers than do a full Reading to Waterloo journey and vice versa hence why 450s and 458/4s aren't as great compared to 701s on most Windsor routes. Intact you get more reading bound passengers from Bracknell onwards.

 

[455_Maniac]

I have 43 in service; am I missing one or are you counting 701 028 in that total?

Counting 028 in the total

Also, bringing the subject back to 458s, I cannot believe the amount of money that has been wasted in recent years, refurbishing the 442s just to get shot of them not long afterwards, now the 458s are getting similar treatment (but at least saw a lot more use than 442s)

 

[SWT_USER]

Counting 028 in the total

Also, bringing the subject back to 458s, I cannot believe the amount of money that has been wasted in recent years, refurbishing the 442s just to get shot of them not long afterwards, now the 458s are getting similar treatment (but at least saw a lot more use than 442s)

I think the real scandal with the 458 conversion is that they were never going to be suitable for what they were being converted for. Not sure if that was a first group or a DFT error, but ether way I am sure it will be taxpayers on the hook!

I hope they don't rush to get rid of the 458's before enough 701's are in service. Will there be enough stock to reverse some of the COVID cuts if these units are gone?

 

[VT 390]

Oh I don’t disagree 701’s are far superior for the Windsor Lines in general, especially the Weybridge and Windsor services. I commuted daily to Whitton & Twickenham for nearly five years, so I’m well aware of the traffic levels. For the Reading service, I appreciate 701’s hoover up the Richmond and Twickenham passengers etc, however I wouldn’t want to spend the full Reading - Waterloo journey on the those seats. I find them cramped and squashed. Personally I’d still prefer the proper 2+2 seating on a 458/4 or a 450.

Most seating on the class 450 is 3+2 except for the small first class areas where as the class 701 is 2+2 throughout.

 

[Dx1998]

458409 was moved from Wimbledon to Clapham Yard today on 5Z50. First outing since 25th Feb

 

[Goldfish62]

Most seating on the class 450 is 3+2 except for the small first class areas where as the class 701 is 2+2 throughout.

Exactly this. I was chatting to a non-enthusiast neighbour recently and he remarked that he liked "the new trains" because they've got 2+2 seating and loads of standing room.

 

[NSEWonderer]

I think the real scandal with the 458 conversion is that they were never going to be suitable for what they were being converted for. Not sure if that was a first group or a DFT error, but ether way I am sure it will be taxpayers on the hook!

I hope they don't rush to get rid of the 458's before enough 701's are in service. Will there be enough stock to reverse some of the COVID cuts if these units are gone?

There is enough 701s total if all 5s and 0s came into service to displace the 458/4s and also allow for a reversion to all day Hounslow rounders, if SWR were to stay at the current cut service levels then there'd be a surplus from what I understand.

 

[DelW]

I hope they don't rush to get rid of the 458's before enough 701's are in service. Will there be enough stock to reverse some of the COVID cuts if these units are gone?

It rather depends on whether there is any will on the part of DfT / GBR / SWR to reinstate all or even any of the services which are still cut. We seem to be stuck in a rut of "we can't improve the timetable while passenger numbers are down". There is of course a counter argument of "passengers won't fully come back while the timetable is inconvenient", not to mention the overcrowding on the surviving services on some of the heavily cut-back routes.

Most seating on the class 450 is 3+2 except for the small first class areas where as the class 701 is 2+2 throughout.

There have been suggestions on here to re-seat a sub-fleet of 450s to 2+2 for Portsmouth trains, though I don't think there has ever been any official backup for this idea.

 

[Stephen42]

I think the real scandal with the 458 conversion is that they were never going to be suitable for what they were being converted for. Not sure if that was a first group or a DFT error, but ether way I am sure it will be taxpayers on the hook!

I hope they don't rush to get rid of the 458's before enough 701's are in service. Will there be enough stock to reverse some of the COVID cuts if these units are gone?

It probably won't have made much difference either way. Even if the conversion went smoothly and 701s were already in action it's still quite likely they would have been removed to reduce costs. The minimum lease period was previously noted as August 2027.

The main blocker to more services are train crew related and that isn't going to resolved imminently. When all 701s are in service, there'd be enough stock for a handful of extra peak Arterio diagrams and 20ish 450s compared to today even with all 458s gone. Off peak reductions are less stock limited already, it's mostly keeping peak extra diagrams out all day which goes back to train crew numbers.

458409 was moved from Wimbledon to Clapham Yard today on 5Z50. First outing since 25th Feb

Hopefully means it will be back in service tomorrow. 458402 recently returned to service after a month out as well. In addition to 405 already mentioned, 410 last worked early February as well.

 

[317 forever]

As I shall be in the area in September, I hope still to be able to ride a 458/4, as well as a 701 of course.

I fear this may be hard to guarantee if a lot more 701s enter service by then.

 

[Dx1998]

458409 will run today (30/3) on diagram WM869

5S07-2S07-2S16-5Y82-5V51-2V51-2C61-2C72-2S75-5Y69

Hopefully this means that its back to being in passenger service after it's extended absence.

 

[WombleGuard]

As I shall be in the area in September, I hope still to be able to ride a 458/4, as well as a 701 of course.

I fear this may be hard to guarantee if a lot more 701s enter service by then.

Rumour at the depots is that the 458/4 will be history by July. Seems a bit soon but that's the latest.

 

[WWTownEnth]

Rumour at the depots is that the 458/4 will be history by July. Seems a bit soon but that's the latest.

Surely they wouldn’t do that some or most of the 701/5s are in service? And that takes us to 2027 doesn’t it?