Arriva Midlands

[Trainman40083]

Yes, the E400s now on the 110 are in an awful state - and yet these are the newest buses in their fleet (!)
Has their been a cut in the funding for maintenance at the Tamworth depot, is this is what is causing the fleet to look so worn and tired? Nothing wrong with an old bus if it's maintained well, but some of these buses look like they've not seen a service in years.

The most likely reason for any bus company to cut maintenance is possibly a drop in revenue. The fare cap probably doesn't help. If for example, passenger numbers are below COVID, you could easily see cuts.

 

[Russel]

The most likely reason for any bus company to cut maintenance is possibly a drop in revenue. The fare cap probably doesn't help. If for example, passenger numbers are below COVID, you could easily see cuts.

Let's not pretend Arriva are some kind of victim here, the fleet issues are a result of mismanagement in the DB era resulting in a vicious circle, unreliable buses lead to unreliable services which puts passengers off, but that's not all, the buses are truly filthy, the seats are stained and ripped, floors, walls and windows and grab poles all have thick layers of visible dirt that have built up over a long period...

Giving the fleet a deep clean is a cheap and easy way of improving customer satisfaction, but it just doesn't happen.

 

[Trainman40083]

Let's not pretend Arriva are some kind of victim here, the fleet issues are a result of mismanagement in the DB era resulting in a vicious circle, unreliable buses lead to unreliable services which puts passengers off, but that's not all, the buses are truly filthy, the seats are stained and ripped, floors, walls and windows and grab poles all have thick layers of visible dirt that have built up over a long period...

Giving the fleet a deep clean is a cheap and easy way of improving customer satisfaction, but it just doesn't happen.

Yes, that is a fair assessment. In Derby, I have no idea how they keep the VDLs running. Or the Geminis..

 

[SSmith2009]

Yes, that is a fair assessment. In Derby, I have no idea how they keep the VDLs running. Or the Geminis..

on a wing and a prayer...
exact same happened with Leicester and their VDL geminis before they were withdrawn.

 

[BULLSAREMAGIC]

on a wing and a prayer...
exact same happened with Leicester and their VDL geminis before they were withdrawn.

As a former Derby City Transport driver in the mid/late 70s it disappoints me greatly to see the state of Arriva in Derby. DCT was in no way perfect but in my 4 years there I only broke down once (Foden 101) and drivers and conductors were encouraged to report defects and unclean vehicles. There was even a hint especially in older crew (I was 21 when I passed my psv) of civic pride in the fleet. Progree?

 

[Voyager 2953]

Arriva have announced a large investment programme which will see many old buses refurbished and deep cleaned so better days are on the horizon finally.

 

[Russel]

Yes, that is a fair assessment. In Derby, I have no idea how they keep the VDLs running. Or the Geminis..

Indeed, it's a real shame, the Geminis were decent buses.

Arriva have announced a large investment programme which will see many old buses refurbished and deep cleaned so better days are on the horizon finally.

That's great and all, but things shouldn't have gotten this bad to begin with, especially on the cleanliness front.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, the E400s now on the 110 are in an awful state - and yet these are the newest buses in their fleet (!)
Has their been a cut in the funding for maintenance at the Tamworth depot, is this is what is causing the fleet to look so worn and tired? Nothing wrong with an old bus if it's maintained well, but some of these buses look like they've not seen a service in years.

Yes the maintenance is very poor these e400s are the newest in the fleet but often the most unreliable with constant break downs and to compare with other e400s theses have only done around 500,000 miles yet are in far worse shape that others that have done around 1 million miles
Tamworth maintenance isn’t good full stop most busses have problems don’t sound good and have breakdowns regularly.

Now... I think we have to be a bit more balanced on this. I've been happy to criticise Arriva over the years (I was doing it before it was fashionable) and in terms of the Tamworth fleet... Yes, they have failed to keep up with fleet replacement. The physical presentation of the fleet is poor - absolutely agree. There's no way that a depot like Tamworth should be relying on a fleet where the average age is probably about 15 years of age.

The unreliability of the fleet isn't likely to be maintenance standards unless people can demonstrate a higher level of MOT failures and PG9s and the root cause of those. It's that you have older vehicles with high mileages having to perform challenging and arduous work like the 110. It's not helped by the fact that they are deploying stop-gap vehicles (deploying 17 year old Versas can only be a temporary measure?) to tide them over whilst they get new vehicles delivered or to enter service (to release cascades around the country).

Hopefully, the improvements that Arriva have announced and the promised investment will begin to undo the years of chronic underinvestment.

 

[Trainman40083]

Now... I think we have to be a bit more balanced on this. I've been happy to criticise Arriva over the years (I was doing it before it was fashionable) and in terms of the Tamworth fleet... Yes, they have failed to keep up with fleet replacement. The physical presentation of the fleet is poor - absolutely agree. There's no way that a depot like Tamworth should be relying on a fleet where the average age is probably about 15 years of age.

The unreliability of the fleet isn't likely to be maintenance standards unless people can demonstrate a higher level of MOT failures and PG9s and the root cause of those. It's that you have older vehicles with high mileages having to perform challenging and arduous work like the 110. It's not helped by the fact that they are deploying stop-gap vehicles (deploying 17 year old Versas can only be a temporary measure?) to tide them over whilst they get new vehicles delivered or to enter service (to release cascades around the country).

Hopefully, the improvements that Arriva have announced and the promised investment will begin to undo the years of chronic underinvestment.

I'd add to that, that old these buses may be, but, for the most part, they seem to stay on the road longer than some of the more modern types.

 

[Russel]

Now... I think we have to be a bit more balanced on this. I've been happy to criticise Arriva over the years (I was doing it before it was fashionable) and in terms of the Tamworth fleet... Yes, they have failed to keep up with fleet replacement. The physical presentation of the fleet is poor - absolutely agree. There's no way that a depot like Tamworth should be relying on a fleet where the average age is probably about 15 years of age.

The unreliability of the fleet isn't likely to be maintenance standards unless people can demonstrate a higher level of MOT failures and PG9s and the root cause of those. It's that you have older vehicles with high mileages having to perform challenging and arduous work like the 110. It's not helped by the fact that they are deploying stop-gap vehicles (deploying 17 year old Versas can only be a temporary measure?) to tide them over whilst they get new vehicles delivered or to enter service (to release cascades around the country).

Hopefully, the improvements that Arriva have announced and the promised investment will begin to undo the years of chronic underinvestment.

Regarding cascades, for single deckers, what can Tamworth realistically expect to receive that is any more than a couple of years younger than what they already have?

Temporary measures are okay in the short term, but when their replacement is another temporary measure, it doesn't paint a good picture.

 

[BuhSnarf]

The most likely reason for any bus company to cut maintenance is possibly a drop in revenue. The fare cap probably doesn't help. If for example, passenger numbers are below COVID, you could easily see cuts.

I would agree with that if they were some small company with limited resources, but there have been plenty of examples of small, independent operators who have continued to invest (not just in new buses) but in the maintenance, upkeep and cleanliness of their fleet even under the cost cap. And let's not forget that Arriva was for a long time part of DB so not short of a few bob. The reality for Arriva is that they've had a number of years of very little investment which (hopefully) under iSquared could be on the change. I think as well there is probably also the fact that with so many depots some are naturally going to get more investment than others - likely based upon the good old Return On Investment.

Now... I think we have to be a bit more balanced on this. I've been happy to criticise Arriva over the years (I was doing it before it was fashionable) and in terms of the Tamworth fleet... Yes, they have failed to keep up with fleet replacement. The physical presentation of the fleet is poor - absolutely agree. There's no way that a depot like Tamworth should be relying on a fleet where the average age is probably about 15 years of age.

The unreliability of the fleet isn't likely to be maintenance standards unless people can demonstrate a higher level of MOT failures and PG9s and the root cause of those. It's that you have older vehicles with high mileages having to perform challenging and arduous work like the 110. It's not helped by the fact that they are deploying stop-gap vehicles (deploying 17 year old Versas can only be a temporary measure?) to tide them over whilst they get new vehicles delivered or to enter service (to release cascades around the country).

Hopefully, the improvements that Arriva have announced and the promised investment will begin to undo the years of chronic underinvestment.

I agree, unreliability sometimes can't be helped as an MOT is an MOT of course. However, certainly my experience with the Tamworth fleet is that some of the jobs that would be nice to do to upkeep the bus but not mandatory may get missed out, meaning that sometimes them gremlins filter in quicker than on another similar aged bus. Plus, of course most of the buses they get have probably been absolutely ragged by the previous depot.

But I think the cleanliness is something that overall is cheap and a more frequent wash of the outside of the bus and maybe give the interior a good old mop would go a long way to improving the image. The recent Citaro that went up in flames had been in Tamworth over a year and yet still contained Vinyls stating it proudly served the Shires with towns many miles away on the back alongside half of the word MAX. Surely these could have been a (tedious) but easy job to just remove.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

let's not forget that Arriva was for a long time part of DB so not short of a few bob. The reality for Arriva is that they've had a number of years of very little investment which (hopefully) under iSquared could be on the change. I think as well there is probably also the fact that with so many depots some are naturally going to get more investment than others - likely based upon the good old Return On Investment.

The problem was that DB WAS short of a few bob. They'd bought Arriva and Schenker with borrowed money, and they had to fund upgrades to the German rail network, and they didn't have the funds to both pay the debts and fulfil the investment (and they are still losing boatloads of money).

However, certainly my experience with the Tamworth fleet is that some of the jobs that would be nice to do to upkeep the bus but not mandatory may get missed out, meaning that sometimes them gremlins filter in quicker than on another similar aged bus. Plus, of course most of the buses they get have probably been absolutely ragged by the previous depot.

It may be that because of the vicious circle of getting buses out, some of the nice to do jobs aren't being done but we're talking of an elderly fleet that has been hammered either at Tamworth (e400s) or that some other depot has enjoyed their best days! That the newest fleet is over 11 years old and much is over 16 points to an age profile that will lead to more failures. Whether it's new EVs or newer cascades, that is what Tamworth needs.

 

[Russel]

It may be that because of the vicious circle of getting buses out, some of the nice to do jobs aren't being done but we're talking of an elderly fleet that has been hammered either at Tamworth (e400s) or that some other depot has enjoyed their best days! That the newest fleet is over 11 years old and much is over 16 points to an age profile that will lead to more failures. Whether it's new EVs or newer cascades, that is what Tamworth needs.

I wouldn't call internal cleaning a "nice to do" job, I'd call it a basic necessity.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I wouldn't call internal cleaning a "nice to do" job, I'd call it a basic necessity.

I think if you read back, that comment was in relation @BuhSnarf's comment on maintenance/failures and sending vehicles out with minor faults, not about internal cleaning.

 

[mattb7tl]

The problems will not be fixed quickly. The economics of buses mean that reversing years of neglect is inherently a slow process, investment is staggered, vehicles have long depreciation cycles, and the benefits of fleet renewal take years to filter through to passengers. It is also worth remembering that the new owners only completed their acquisition in mid-2024. They do not have decades of the accumulated profits to draw on. A typical bus has a service life of around fifteen years and can take the better part of a decade to pay back the cost on all but the busiest routes, so even with genuine commitment to improvement, meaningful change is a long term project.

 

[BuhSnarf]

Fingers crossed these millions being pumped in by iSquared either through new vehicles or through refurbishing some of the existing fleet will help Tamworth.

 

[Qwerty133]

The problems will not be fixed quickly. The economics of buses mean that reversing years of neglect is inherently a slow process, investment is staggered, vehicles have long depreciation cycles, and the benefits of fleet renewal take years to filter through to passengers. It is also worth remembering that the new owners only completed their acquisition in mid-2024. They do not have decades of the accumulated profits to draw on. A typical bus has a service life of around fifteen years and can take the better part of a decade to pay back the cost on all but the busiest routes, so even with genuine commitment to improvement, meaningful change is a long term project.

If the buses are as dirty as we often see in Leicester even £20 spent on a mop, bucket, dustpan and brush could improve the interior cleanliness. If they really wanted to push the boat out they could spend an additional £5 on a pack of cloths and give the walls and seat backs a wipe once in a while.

 

[Russel]

I think if you read back, that comment was in relation @BuhSnarf's comment on maintenance/failures and sending vehicles out with minor faults, not about internal cleaning.

But they are sending buses out in a disgraceful condition, so Arriva must see cleaning as a nice to have...

 

[buslad1988]

Fingers crossed these millions being pumped in by iSquared either through new vehicles or through refurbishing some of the existing fleet will help Tamworth.

I’m sure it will, people will just have to be patient. One or two posters on here do not speak for all bus users in the area. There are also garages in other arriva ops that are worse than Tamworth, in particular terms of fleet age.

Give Isquare a chance, they’ve a lot on their hands to deal with. There’s clearly a will to turn things around with the announcement of huge new orders and the website etc.

An overnight turnaround this will not be.

 

[Russel]

I’m sure it will, people will just have to be patient. One or two posters on here do not speak for all bus users in the area. There are also garages in other arriva ops that are worse than Tamworth, in particular terms of fleet age.

Give Isquare a chance, they’ve a lot on their hands to deal with. There’s clearly a will to turn things around with the announcement of huge new orders and the website etc.

An overnight turnaround this will not be.

Regarding the bit in bold, the opinions on here regarding Arrivas offerings in Tamworth do correlate with the locals opinions, the service and fleet is on it's knees.

It's easy to say give them a chance, but patients started to run out a long time ago and vague promises of slightly newer cascades form elsewhere isn't the good news story it's being made out to be.

Yes, the electrics for the 110 will be a good improvement, when they finally arrive but that doesn't do much to improve the rest of the routes.

 

[EnviroExplorer]

Regarding the bit in bold, the opinions on here regarding Arrivas offerings in Tamworth do correlate with the locals opinions, the service and fleet is on it's knees.

It's easy to say give them a chance, but patients started to run out a long time ago and vague promises of slightly newer cascades form elsewhere isn't the good news story it's being made out to be.

Yes, the electrics for the 110 will be a good improvement, when they finally arrive but that doesn't do much to improve the rest of the routes.

The Electrics for the 110 aren’t the only brand new vehicles due for Tamworth, there is more, so yes give them a chance…
(It’s not my place to give more details but this has come from Tamworth management)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

But they are sending buses out in a disgraceful condition, so Arriva must see cleaning as a nice to have...

Yes, and that was also mentioned some posts earlier if you read upwards in that we all agree the presentation is awful . However, the "nice to do" comment (from @BuhSnarf) that you responded to related specifically to not doing small maintenance tasks in order to get vehicles out on the road and it potentially causing additional issues.

 

[Russel]

The Electrics for the 110 aren’t the only brand new vehicles due for Tamworth, there is more, so yes give them a chance…
(It’s not my place to give more details but this has come from Tamworth management)

If that is true and there is more brand new buses on the way, rather than more cascades, then it's good news.

Yes, and that was also mentioned some posts earlier if you read upwards in that we all agree the presentation is awful . However, the "nice to do" comment (from @BuhSnarf) that you responded to related specifically to not doing small maintenance tasks in order to get vehicles out on the road and it potentially causing additional issues.

Okay, so I've misread the post initially, it's easily done, I'm not sure there is a need to make a big deal out of it, but my second reply still stands regarding Arrivas approach to cleaning regardless of who or what I was replying to...

 

[DS25]

If that is true and there is more brand new buses on the way, rather than more cascades, then it's good news.

I wonder what arriva would be more likely to buy for Tamworth, Evoras, E200MMC’s or something else

 

[BusLink61]

I wonder what arriva would be more likely to buy for Tamworth, Evoras, E200MMC’s or something else

Personally I think either electric single deckers for other routes or E200MMC’s. Evoras don’t seem likely given that most of the routes are Tamworth locals and the Evora is a heavyweight vehicle ideal for long distance routes.

 

[sharpley]

Been on bus 2978 twice this week around Tamworth and Nuneaton and it seriously struggles with even a modest hill to climb. Struggled today on the 7 with the hills around Stonydelph. On Tuesday it was on the 6 and it was a snails pace up the hill to Beddesley Ensor. Lorries easily overtaking us up the hill on the A5 out of Atherstone. You could see the driver was getting frustrated

 

[DS25]

Today seems to be the first day where Shrewsbury Town routes 1/11/24/25/27 are completely Evora operated
Hopefully some buses come to replace the solo’s on 2/12/23/26 but I feel like they might get a new operator soon like Lakeside as what happened to 20/21, the only thing is they might need some extra buses

 

[Kaliwax]

Perhaps Tamworth could get the buses currently used on the 724/725 in Essex, E200MMCs when they get new buses for it

 

[DS25]

Perhaps Tamworth could get the buses currently used on the 724/725 in Essex, E200MMCs when they get new buses for it

Yet its not new buses which would be preferable, it is still an upgrade on the current selection of old versas and pulsars

 

[chungusgoat1]

Today seems to be the first day where Shrewsbury Town routes 1/11/24/25/27 are completely Evora operated
Hopefully some buses come to replace the solo’s on 2/12/23/26 but I feel like they might get a new operator soon like Lakeside as what happened to 20/21, the only thing is they might need some extra buses

2140 and 2141 from Telford are transferring to Shrewsbury to replace the solos but are at derby for work currently