cab views on YouTube, TfL official

[Dstock7080]

Northern Line: Kennington-Edgware

Victoria Line: Walthamstow-Brixton

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Thank you; I'll have a look at those later. Good to see the penny is finally dropping with TfL...

 

[Mldaureol]

Yes, thanks for these videos.
mike.

 

[Goldfish62]

Ah excellent, the Northern one shows the TOD in action (train operator display).

 

[STINT47]

Great videos. I'm surprised at how dark the tunnels are. Is this what the drive actually sees or more accurately doesn't?

 

[Dstock7080]

Very accurate, with all lights off it is very disorienting as there is no source of light.
Previous 1959/62, A, CO/CP, R Stock had just marker lights consisting of 60w bulbs.

 

[bramling]

Great videos. I'm surprised at how dark the tunnels are. Is this what the drive actually sees or more accurately doesn't?

No - in real life the driver can see a bit more than this, though not massively more. 95 stock headlamps are reasonably bright, and do illuminate the tunnel to some extent.

 

[Goldfish62]

No - in real life the driver can see a bit more than this, though not massively more. 95 stock headlamps are reasonably bright, and do illuminate the tunnel to some extent.

On the TOD what does the down arrow in a circle that appears from time to time mean? It doesn't seem to be consistently associated with an upcoming speed reduction.

 

[bramling]

On the TOD what does the down arrow in a circle that appears from time to time mean? It doesn't seem to be consistently associated with an upcoming speed reduction.

No one seems to really understand the difference between a down arrow and a zero indication. It seems to be the case that a down arrow indicates a drop in speed to stop that isn’t associated with a normal stopping place (such as a station platform stopping mark). The whole TBTC system is full of inconsistencies and issues in what is presented to the driver. Essentially if in PM and the down arrow comes up it’s a case of braking until the indication disappears.

There’s certainly locations where it gives insufficient warning for the driver to be able to keep up, which may lead to a speed violation occurring, though those drivers who do a lot of PM driving are likely to know the places where this happens and can anticipate it.

 

[TFN]

Is it routine for drivers to drive in PM on the northern line when ATO is available? (And other tube lines for that matter)

 

[Watershed]

Is it routine for drivers to drive in PM on the northern line when ATO is available? (And other tube lines for that matter)

Yes - I was about to say. The train appears to be in PM at the start of the video. It looks like it's gone from the Battersea branch - is that branch PM only?

 

[Mojo]

Yes - I was about to say. The train appears to be in PM at the start of the video. It looks like it's gone from the Battersea branch - is that branch PM only?

Looks to me as if the train has come round the Kennington Loop, for which you are required to drive in Protected Manual as per the rule book.

 

[bramling]

Is it routine for drivers to drive in PM on the northern line when ATO is available? (And other tube lines for that matter)

Not really. However drivers are supposed to drive in PM round the Kennington Loop, though not everyone bothers. Otherwise it’s fairly rare for drivers to drive in PM - though a small few choose to do it regularly, for which nothing will be said so long as it doesn’t cause problems.

 

[Watershed]

Why is PM required for the Kennington Loop out of interest? Is that simply the case for all empty movements?

 

[bramling]

Why is PM required for the Kennington Loop out of interest? Is that simply the case for all empty movements?

I think it’s because of the way the train stops at a “pseudo platform” mid-way round, which is the way the system has been arranged to cope with the change from southbound to northbound (as well as, presumably, giving an option for trains to be held there). In ATO there is no OPO alarm, and to move off from the pseudo platform requires the driver to press the start buttons. Were the driver to become incapacitated, the train would just sit at the pseudo platform until service control noticed. Whereas in PM mode the OPO alarm will alert them.

 

[Dstock7080]

On the TOD what does the down arrow in a circle that appears from time to time mean?

Explanation from the sub-surface CBTC equivalent:

 

[Jimbo12345]

A downward arrow is an obstruction in your path which is almost always going to be another train in front of you

 

[Goldfish62]

Many thanks for all the answers on the meaning of the down arrow.

Shame the Vic line video doesn't show the TOD. I found it almost more interesting seeing what was going on with it than the actual view out of the front!

 

[xtmw]

Interestingly there are now training videos being released onto YouTube; several moves covering the District and Circle lines

 

[anthony263]

Interestingly there are now training videos being released onto YouTube; several moves covering the District and Circle lines

Theres been a few on YouTube for a while particularly the bakerloo line

 

[Dstock7080]

Circle Line, Edgware Road to Hammersmith via Victoria and Liverpool Street:

 

[davews]

Thanks. No signals, they are all blanked off. Presumably the new non-physical signals system? Bit strange when he is sitting at a station obviously at at a red signal even telling the passengers and you can see nothing!

 

[Benjwri]

Thanks. No signals, they are all blanked off. Presumably the new non-physical signals system? Bit strange when he is sitting at a station obviously at at a red signal even telling the passengers and you can see nothing!

Yes, the signals on the circle line have been replaced by the CTBC system. The physical signals are slowly being removed.

 

[Goldfish62]

Thanks. No signals, they are all blanked off. Presumably the new non-physical signals system? Bit strange when he is sitting at a station obviously at at a red signal even telling the passengers and you can see nothing!

The Northern line video shows the TOD (Train Operator Display) which shows speed, upcoming restrictions, distance to next station etc.

 

[Nym]

Shame the Vic line video doesn't show the TOD. I found it almost more interesting seeing what was going on with it than the actual view out of the front!

It's not a TOD on the Victoria Line, it's a PDP (Primary Display Panel).

And they're quite different, given the Victoria Line is fixed block signalling rather than "Moving Block" (which isn't actually moving block) on the Northern and Jubilee.

IMO it's much better on the Victoria Line than the TBTC lines.

 

[Goldfish62]

IMO it's much better on the Victoria Line than the TBTC lines.

In what way? Genuine question.

 

[xtmw]

How does the Vic determine its target speed? Is it fixed like the Central line where it's a fixed target speed point and use the DTG on the PDP to determine where to stop?

 

[rmHawk765]

Is it routine for drivers to drive in PM on the northern line when ATO is available? (And other tube lines for that matter)

Assuming 'PM' is like Coded Manual on the 92 stock, 92 stock (Central) drivers use it on Sundays and bank holidays to my best knowledge. Not sure about the Northern line.

 

[Dstock7080]

Assuming 'PM' is like Coded Manual on the 92 stock, 92 stock (Central) drivers use it on Sundays and bank holidays to my best knowledge.

Only permitted west of White City and east of Leytonstone without authorisation on those days, at any other time or location permission must be obtained.

Northern Line PM Protected Manual must be used on same days West Finchley-High Barnet, Hendon Central-Edgware. In other areas permission need not be obtained.
Mon-Sat permission needs to be granted on the Line but only 1100-1400, and after 2100.
PM must be used around the Kennington loop

 

[eastrail]

Only permitted west of White City and east of Leytonstone without authorisation on those days, at any other time or location permission must be obtained.

Northern Line PM Protected Manual must be used on same days West Finchley-High Barnet, Hendon Central-Edgware. In other areas permission need not be obtained.
Mon-Sat permission needs to be granted on the Line but only 1100-1400, and after 2100.
PM must be used around the Kennington loop

Are there any other coded/protected manual allowances (and their restrictions) on other ATO lines? eg SSR and Jubilee