tfw756rider
On Moderation
Thanks a lot. In that case, today I'll be seeing the 6-car Cambrian 197 trio for a third time instead.
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CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.
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wythallpaul
Member
197025 has Worked 5T97 this Morning (20/03/26).
Clarification:- 5T97 0905 Crewe South Yard (XCT) to Chester D.M.U.D (XCH).
Source Realtime Trains (RTT).
Could it be that Someone in Authority at TfW has Decreed that having Brand New Units in Secure Storage (Costing TfW Money) in Yards has to come to an End?
Clarification:- 5T97 0905 Crewe South Yard (XCT) to Chester D.M.U.D (XCH).
Source Realtime Trains (RTT).
Could it be that Someone in Authority at TfW has Decreed that having Brand New Units in Secure Storage (Costing TfW Money) in Yards has to come to an End?
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Jacob Porrett
Established Member
Realtime Trains | 4G97 0626 Basford Hall Yard (Fl) to Donnington Rft | 23/03/2026
Real-time train running information for 4G97 0626 departure from Basford Hall Yard (Fl) to Donnington Rft on 23/03/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Realtime Trains | 6G97 1006 Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) | 23/03/2026
Real-time train running information for 6G97 1006 departure from Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) on 23/03/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Second attempt on Monday morning for 197041 to leave Donnington RFT for Crewe Carriage Sidings.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Thanks again JacobRealtime Trains | 4G97 0626 Basford Hall Yard (Fl) to Donnington Rft | 23/03/2026
Real-time train running information for 4G97 0626 departure from Basford Hall Yard (Fl) to Donnington Rft on 23/03/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Realtime Trains | 6G97 1006 Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) | 23/03/2026
Real-time train running information for 6G97 1006 departure from Donnington Rft to Crewe C.S. (L&Nwr Site) on 23/03/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Second attempt on Monday morning for 197041 to leave Donnington RFT for Crewe Carriage Sidings.
Looks like 3C00 and 3C01 (Fri 20/3/26) aren't running today...
Edit: Weirdly, 3C00 is showing as all "no reports" except for an "arrival" at Shrewsbury, but 3C01 is actually showing as cancelled.
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Techniquest
Veteran Member
Fantastic news that more 197s have entered service, it’s been a mighty long time since the last new arrival. October 2025 I seem to recall but I could be mixing that up with something else.
Fair to say I have changed my plans for tomorrow and Monday, the red pen is coming out to play
Fair to say I have changed my plans for tomorrow and Monday, the red pen is coming out to play
tfw756rider
On Moderation
You're right with October 2025 - that was when the 70th 197 to enter service (197037) did so.
And now the 71st and 72nd 197s to enter service (197023 and 197032 respectively) have both done so in March 2026. You wait ages for another 197 to enter service and two do so at once (almost)
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
The entry into service of both 197023 and 197032 in the second half of March 2026 now means that 72 (of 77) 197s have been in service @Peter Sarf and everyone.
46 (of 51) 2-car 197s have been in service:
All 30 non-ETCS 2-cars (197001-002, 197004-021, 197042-051)
16 (of 21) ETCS-fitted 2-cars (197003, 197022-197024, 197026-037)
All 26 3-car 197s have been in service:
All 12 188-seat 3-cars (197101-112)
All 14 174-seat 3-cars (197113-126)
==============================
The number of 197s still to enter service is down to 5, all of which are ETCS-fitted 2-cars:
197025, 197038-041
Of these, 4 have been delivered:
197025, 197038-040
And 1 has left the factory but hasn't quite been delivered yet:
197041
==============================
The overall number of new Transport for Wales (TfW) trains that have been in service is now up to 107 (of 148):
72 (of 77) 197s
46 (of 51) 197/0s
- All 30 non-ETCS 197/0s
- 16 (of 21) ETCS-fitted 197/0s
- All 12 188-seat 197/1s
- All 14 174-seat 197/1s
All 24 756s
All 7 756/0s
All 17 756/1s
This leaves 41 new TfW trains still to enter service:
5 197/0s (all of which are ETCS-fitted units)
36 398s
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Peter Sarf
Established Member
I suspect 197025 might be in service next week ?.You're right with October 2025 - that was when the 70th 197 to enter service (197037) did so.
And now the 71st and 72nd 197s to enter service (197023 and 197032 respectively) have both done so in March 2026. You wait ages for another 197 to enter service and two do so at once (almost)
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
The entry into service of both 197023 and 197032 in the second half of March 2026 now means that 72 (of 77) 197s have been in service @Peter Sarf and everyone.
46 (of 51) 2-car 197s have been in service:
All 30 non-ETCS 2-cars (197001-002, 197004-021, 197042-051)
16 (of 21) ETCS-fitted 2-cars (197003, 197022-197024, 197026-037)
All 26 3-car 197s have been in service:
All 12 188-seat 3-cars (197101-112)
All 14 174-seat 3-cars (197113-126)
==============================
The number of 197s still to enter service is down to 5, all of which are ETCS-fitted 2-cars:
197025, 197038-041
Of these, 4 have been delivered:
197025, 197038-040
And 1 has left the factory but hasn't quite been delivered yet:
197041
==============================
The overall number of new Transport for Wales (TfW) trains that have been in service is now up to 107 (of 148):
72 (of 77) 197s
46 (of 51) 197/0s
All 26 197/1s
- All 30 non-ETCS 197/0s
- 16 (of 21) ETCS-fitted 197/0s
All 11 231s
- All 12 188-seat 197/1s
- All 14 174-seat 197/1s
All 24 756s
All 7 756/0s
All 17 756/1s
This leaves 41 new TfW trains still to enter service:
5 197/0s (all of which are ETCS-fitted units)
36 398s
Just leaving 197038, 197039, 197040 & 197041 to enter service.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
Thanks for confirming that @tfw756rider , I wasn’t convinced my memory was accurate. Sometimes it’s great and sometimes it’s awful!
Bring on the new 197s, having something new to chase locally is going to be fantastic. Hopefully one of them will turn up tomorrow, although I’ll happily score both. I’m in South Wales on Monday anyway, hoping for a good result
Bring on the new 197s, having something new to chase locally is going to be fantastic. Hopefully one of them will turn up tomorrow, although I’ll happily score both. I’m in South Wales on Monday anyway, hoping for a good result
Seems likely, its now accepted and 023/032 only had 3 days or so at Chester so it shouldnt be that far behind.
wythallpaul
Member
Post 10,133 - "A couple of moves today - Thursday 12th March 2026".
197023 5T23 Crewe South Yard - Chester TMD
197024 5T24 Holyhead - Chester TMD
197023 then went into Service on Thursday 19th March 2026. (Early Hours)
Post 10,146 - "(197)032 has been in the parcels bay (Chester) (next to platform 1) all afternoon - Monday 16th March 2026". (Post 10,142 Suspects after Working 3Z00 that Monday Morning).
197032 then went into Service on Saturday 21st March 2026. (Slightly Quicker than 197023).
Post 10,202 - "197025 has Worked 5T97 this Morning (Friday 20/03/26)".
Clarification:- 5T97 0905 Crewe South Yard (XCT) to Chester D.M.U.D (XCH).
197025 then went into Service on ??/03/26. Could well be on or before next Friday 27th March 2026 Hopefully.
197023 5T23 Crewe South Yard - Chester TMD
197024 5T24 Holyhead - Chester TMD
197023 then went into Service on Thursday 19th March 2026. (Early Hours)
Post 10,146 - "(197)032 has been in the parcels bay (Chester) (next to platform 1) all afternoon - Monday 16th March 2026". (Post 10,142 Suspects after Working 3Z00 that Monday Morning).
197032 then went into Service on Saturday 21st March 2026. (Slightly Quicker than 197023).
Post 10,202 - "197025 has Worked 5T97 this Morning (Friday 20/03/26)".
Clarification:- 5T97 0905 Crewe South Yard (XCT) to Chester D.M.U.D (XCH).
197025 then went into Service on ??/03/26. Could well be on or before next Friday 27th March 2026 Hopefully.
I’m not really sure what you’re getting at here. They’ll come into service when they’re ready and everything else aligns. There’s no pattern to be followed.
wythallpaul
Member
What I am getting at is this:-
Post 10,207 - "You're right with October 2025 - that was when the 70th 197 to enter service (197037) did so.
And now the 71st and 72nd 197s to enter service (197023 and 197032 respectively) have both done so in March 2026. You wait ages for another 197 to enter service and two do so at once (almost)"
70th Cl197 to Enter Service - 197037 - October 2025. Then over 4 Months Latter:-
71st Cl197 to Enter Service - 197023 - 19th March 2026. Then 2 Days Latter:-
72nd Cl197 to Enter Service - 197032 - 21st March 2026. Then 4 Days Latter:-
73rd Cl197 to Enter Service - 197025 - 25th March 2026.
Something has Changed. I Thought that someone on here "in the Know" might be able to Suggest what that was.
Could be as Simple as - Improving Reliability has Lessened the Workload at Chester D.M.U.D so they now have Spare Capacity to Commission New Units.
Could be as Simple as - More Stabling Space or Innovative Night Time Movements Allow more Operational Units to be Accommodated on the Network Overnight.
Could be as Simple as - Someone in Authority at TfW has Decreed that having Brand New Units Languishing in (Expensive) Secure Storage is not Best use of Resources.
Something has Changed & I was just Interested to know if anyone knew what that Change was.
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Good news that more 197s are now in service. I am the same as you and have 2 (hopefully 3) more to chase now!Thanks for confirming that @tfw756rider , I wasn’t convinced my memory was accurate. Sometimes it’s great and sometimes it’s awful!
Bring on the new 197s, having something new to chase locally is going to be fantastic. Hopefully one of them will turn up tomorrow, although I’ll happily score both. I’m in South Wales on Monday anyway, hoping for a good result
Peter Sarf
Established Member
You can add to that the fact that 197003 has re-entered service after gong to Holyhead way back last year. Roughly nine months inactivity iirc.
I think the significant change might be the mention up thread that TfW have recently invested in more spares.
But this might not explain the never used and presumably untouched (ie not robbed of parts) 197s that were stored at Crewe South Yard.
It is reasonable to suppose that TfW want to get all the newest 197s (ETCS fitted for Cambrian Coast) thoroughly run in before a big bang switch over on Cambrian from 158s happens. On this thread way back we were given the impression it would be an overnight/over-weekend switch over. But is that still true ?.
I think given the need to get the newest (ETCS Cambrian) 197s run in properly that some ordinary 197/0s will get stored serviceable. Possibly at Holyhead ?. There did seem to be a rotation of 197/0s in the past (up until late last year / 2025).
For me the best indication that Cambrian is to switch over to 197s is when enough of the 398s are in service to cover the TAM lines so that the 231s & 756s can go to their planned / correct routes thus freeing up 197s for their planned /correct routes. Then worry about availability of 197s. We should not ignore the fact that the Wrexham/Bidston line is still using a pair of 197s (perhaps some displaced 150s or 158s going there but best discussed in the relevant thread).
I do not think there is going to be space to maintain the full 197 fleet until Machynlleth (for Cambrian coast) dispenses with 158s. So until then any extra locations will be more for storage and/or stabling. Indeed the full fleet will not be demanding the full level of maintenance anyway until Cambrian Coast switches over.
Alternatively. If Cambrian can run a mix of 158s and 197s. Then perhaps these extra 197s will partially take over.
Two things make this unlikely.
Machynlleth depot cannot cope with a mix of fleets.
So much splitting and joining happens of trains on Cambrian Coast that it is inevitable a 197 will encounter the need to couple to a 158. I have not seen any indication that this is to become possible ?.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Four for me as I missed 197003 last tie round !.
Certainly is good news to get these newer 197/0s thoroughly run in.
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tfw756rider
On Moderation
Effectively not possible - 158-197 coupling requires an adapter and even then, 5mph maximum I believe.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Thanks, that's definitely not a possible day to day for passenger operations then !.
BillStampy
Established Member
Realtime Trains | 1W58 1404 Newport (South Wales) to Manchester Piccadilly | 22/03/2026
Real-time train running information for 1W58 1404 departure from Newport (South Wales) to Manchester Piccadilly on 22/03/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Probably partially the result of the Newport to Cardiff block but still, a 150 on the Marches vice a 197 from Newport to Shrewsbury. Better hope it's not related to availability of 197s and there better be one ready by the time that gets to Shrewsbury!
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Half the speed of even a loco-hauled train over Barmouth Bridge
Peter Sarf
Established Member
Oh yes. Also I bet a loco can drag a 197 or 158 faster than a 197+158 pairingHalf the speed of even a loco-hauled train over Barmouth Bridge
.Very rare these days for a 150 to even run to Shrewsbury unless its via the Heart of Wales. I think Crewe still sign them so technically it probably could have gone to Manchester but it was better that a 197 was found to take over.Realtime Trains | 1W58 1404 Newport (South Wales) to Manchester Piccadilly | 22/03/2026
Real-time train running information for 1W58 1404 departure from Newport (South Wales) to Manchester Piccadilly on 22/03/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Probably partially the result of the Newport to Cardiff block but still, a 150 on the Marches vice a 197 from Newport to Shrewsbury. Better hope it's not related to availability of 197s and there better be one ready by the time that gets to Shrewsbury!
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Looking at my 197 list I got 197003 just once in January of last year.
Techniquest
Veteran Member
I didn’t have it even in 2025, just once on 22nd December 2024.
Didn’t go and get 197032 today after all, although I’m sure I saw it’s southbound working at lunchtime. I couldn’t quite confirm the number at the angle I was at, riding along a road at a lower height than the railway and not entirely expecting to see a train at that point.
Can anyone confirm if 032 was indeed on the 1241 or so from Hereford?
Didn’t go and get 197032 today after all, although I’m sure I saw it’s southbound working at lunchtime. I couldn’t quite confirm the number at the angle I was at, riding along a road at a lower height than the railway and not entirely expecting to see a train at that point.
Can anyone confirm if 032 was indeed on the 1241 or so from Hereford?
According to RTT that was indeed 197032.
Good to see you back on the forum by the way!
craigybagel
Established Member
- Joined
- 25 Oct 2012
- Messages
- 5,829
Realtime Trains | 1W58 1404 Newport (South Wales) to Manchester Piccadilly | 22/03/2026
Real-time train running information for 1W58 1404 departure from Newport (South Wales) to Manchester Piccadilly on 22/03/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.
Probably partially the result of the Newport to Cardiff block but still, a 150 on the Marches vice a 197 from Newport to Shrewsbury. Better hope it's not related to availability of 197s and there better be one ready by the time that gets to Shrewsbury!
It might also be because of an unfortunate incident on the Marches yesterday evening that left a lot of units displaced with the line blocked for several hours.
Most (but not all) drivers at Crewe still sign them. There's no longer any booked work however - nor will there be on 153s come May - so those competences will soon be gone for good, as will likely any trips north of Newport for these units (other than via the Heart of Wales). The Crewe - Shrewsbury local switches from 153s to a 197 on Sundays with the May timetable, it already being 197 operated every other day of the week.
Thank you for the update. It did seem a bit of an oddity to keep it to 153s on just a Sunday although im sure there is a reason for it. There are less diagrams on a Sunday I think for the 197s compared to 49 on other days so it probably wont impact much switching it to a 197 from May.
tfw756rider
On Moderation
Morning,
Today's 4G97 and 6G97 - 66515+6 barrier wagons have set off on 4G97 to pick up 197041 - just seen at Shrewsbury.
Edit: 6G97 has set off 15 minutes early.
Today's 4G97 and 6G97 - 66515+6 barrier wagons have set off on 4G97 to pick up 197041 - just seen at Shrewsbury.
Edit: 6G97 has set off 15 minutes early.
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Peter Sarf
Established Member
I make that four ETCS 197/0s at Crewe imminently then.
197038, 197039, 197040 & 197041.
Mostly Crewe South Yard but 197041 straight to Crewe Carriage (LNWR depot).
tfw756rider
On Moderation
6G97 has passed Wellington 7 minutes late.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
6G97 has departed Shrewsbury on time.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
6G97 (66515+barrier 1+197041+barriers 2-6) seen.
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animationmilo
Member
- Joined
- 29 Mar 2011
- Messages
- 870
So seems canton is keeping the 153 work
I always thought Crewe CS were going to take them on in the long run.