Unusual reversal near Salisbury - help identifying a station?

[Plagiomnium]

I am trying to identify a station from a description of a train there in a book from about 1900. I don't know the area and for all I know the trains still do this, but they might not, or it could be a station that no longer exists, hence posting in the History forum. Any help is much appreciated!

The station is in a town near Salisbury, probably on the Wessex Main Line. At some period including c.1900, trains going to Salisbury would first back out of the station and then return through it (i.e., I assume reversing at a junction just beyond the station), before continuing to Salisbury. Which station is this?

The Yeovil Pen Mill-Waterloo trains that reverse at Westbury seem to be a possibility, but I don't know whether those reversals do or did happen like this.

 

[Magdalia]

At some period including c.1900, trains going to Salisbury would first back out of the station and then return through it (i.e., I assume reversing at a junction just beyond the station)

The station that was worked like this was Dorchester South, though for trains to Weymouth not Salisbury.

 

[The exile]

The station that was worked like this was Dorchester South, though for trains to Weymouth not Salisbury.

In be k ok after years I think it was just for trains from Weymouth (ie, there was a platform on the down through line but up trains had to back into the old terminal platform).

 

[Gloster]

The only one that comes to mind is the Great Western station at Salisbury, which was alongside the current station to the north. Trains from the Westbury station terminated there, but it is possible that at that era through coaches to Southampton might be hauled back out and then pass through the LSWR station.

An alternative is Templecombe, where southbound Somerset & Dorset trains would run up to the main station on the LSWR line, before backing down and then continuing south under the LSWR.

Dorchester South was only for Up LSWR trains from Weymouth to London via Southampton; Down trains had a platform on the connecting line and didn’t need to reverse.

There was also Milford station at Salisbury (on the east side of the town by where the line to Romsey curves sharply from south to east). However, this seems to have closed to passengers in 1859.

 

[Magdalia]

there was a platform on the down through line but up trains had to back into the old terminal platform

Not when the station was first opened. Though the platform on the down line was constructed before 1900.

The only one that comes to mind is the Great Western station at Salisbury, which was alongside the current station to the north. Trains from the Westbury station terminated there, but it is possible that at that era through coaches to Southampton might be hauled back out and then pass through the LSWR station.

That does sound like a good way of running through carriages from, say, Bristol to Southampton.

 

[The exile]

The LSWR was in the middle of being rebuilt in 1900 so all kinds of weird things might have been going on for short periods.

 

[Snow1964]

In addition to @The exile answer regarding station being rebuilt, there was also a number of army camps in the area at the time (and even more during First World War).

Some of the troop trains were long and would load in sidings that were more like cattle or parcels docks, to keep platforms clear, as the troop trains could be berthed for hours. These would then need shunting back out before starting their journey.

 

[Plagiomnium]

Thanks all for the thoughts! Seems there isn't as simple an answer as I had hoped there might be, but this has given me some things to investigate.

 

[Gloster]

One other possibility comes to mind. A line to Amesbury in the heart of the Army’s exercise area opened at the beginning of October 1901 to troop trains and June 1902 to regular passengers. Until May 1904 any train going to Amesbury from the Salisbury direction would have to reverse at Grateley. After that a direct curve was built avoiding the reversal.

 

[Acathater]

How about a Yeovil Town -Yeovil Junction-Salisbury service?
Wiki says

The station at this time had two platforms serving three tracks. The northern side was the track for trains to Salisbury and London Waterloo; the middle track was covered by a train shed and could be used from either platform and was for the trains to Yeovil Town; the southern track was for trains to Exeter.

I'm guessing a Yeovil Town - Salisbury service would arrive at Junction on the centre track, draw through to the west, then reverse onto the northern up track

 

[Rescars]

Anything like this ever happen with MSWJ trains at Andover?

 

[Gloster]

Anything like this ever happen with MSWJ trains at Andover?

I haven’t got a signalling diagram, but I think it was possible for through trains to Southampton to get across the main line without reversal. Still, there could have a detachment or attachment of coaches that were shunted on or off another train, but I think that most M&SWJR workings to So’ton were through trains, rather than portions.

We might be better able to help @Plagiomnium if we knew the context. Was it a fiction or non-fiction book? Was it a regular train or some type of special, etc.?

 

[Snow1964]

I think I might have solved it, the Amesbury Railway, although officially a light railway was built to almost mainline standards, the station is where the Tesco store now is, but line carried on a bit to the old A303 road (now London Road) where Tesco car park is.

The A303 is now a dual carriageway alignment passing to the north of Amesbury rather than single carriageway passing through the town. The old A303 alignment has now disappeared under what is known as Solstice Park (out of town fast food places etc that is effectively also services area for A303)

Amesbury station originally only had one platform with through line adjacent, and some of the military unloading points were beyond. Subsequently (1906) a line curved northwards towards Bulford and station gained extra platforms (don't know when). But seems quite likely Ops train loaded in the military bit beyond the station, then backed into station platform. Possibly equipment, troops or horses were loaded into part of the train first.

 

[The exile]

How about a Yeovil Town -Yeovil Junction-Salisbury service?
Wiki says


I'm guessing a Yeovil Town - Salisbury service would arrive at Junction on the centre track, draw through to the west, then reverse onto the northern up track

If so, a remarkable piece of inter company working for a not particularly significant route.

 

[Gloster]

If so, a remarkable piece of inter company working for a not particularly significant route.

The line from Town to Junction was L&SWR, as was the main line, and Town station was a joint one.

 

[Acathater]

If so, a remarkable piece of inter company working for a not particularly significant route.

Not really, Yeovil Town was a joint station with the link between Town & Junction all LSWR. The link ran alongside the GW line to Dorchester but was separate.

==edit==
Sorry, I see Gloster beat me to it

 

[35B]

If so, a remarkable piece of inter company working for a not particularly significant route.

My 1922 Bradshaw shows through trains between Salisbury and Town

 

[Taunton]

Local trains on Salisbury to Exeter were commonly run as two separate operations, Salisbury to Yeovil Town, and Yeovil Town to Exeter. The former needed reversal at Yeovil Junction, where a separate locomotive was generally provided for the short leg onwards. The loco depot was at Yeovil Town, well removed from the main line. Yeovil must have some accolade for the "Most Unfortunately Sited Stations For A Major Town", for of its three, two of them, Pen Mill and even Town, were on the very perimeter of the built up area, while Junction was in the middle of nowhere, in fact even in the next county. Pen Mill being sited right next to the sewage works (sometimes only too obviously) gives a bit of a clue that there wasn't a lot of revenue generating land use adjacent to it.

 

[Plagiomnium]

We might be better able to help @Plagiomnium if we knew the context. Was it a fiction or non-fiction book? Was it a regular train or some type of special, etc.?

The book (The Longest Journey by E. M. Forster) is fiction, and I'm now thinking perhaps the author was using some artistic licence in describing a train he'd seen in a different place! It's a regular passenger train, no suggestion of any military context.

The mention of Andover is interesting. The unnamed location from the published book can't be Andover (it's described as being across Salisbury Plain from the Winterbournes/Porton and on a different railway line, hence why I thought of Westbury) - but it was Andover in an early draft, and the detail about the train could possibly be a remnant of that.

 

[Acathater]

Local trains on Salisbury to Exeter were commonly run as two separate operations, Salisbury to Yeovil Town, and Yeovil Town to Exeter. The former needed reversal at Yeovil Junction, where a separate locomotive was generally provided for the short leg onwards. The loco depot was at Yeovil Town, well removed from the main line. Yeovil must have some accolade for the "Most Unfortunately Sited Stations For A Major Town", for of its three, two of them, Pen Mill and even Town, were on the very perimeter of the built up area, while Junction was in the middle of nowhere, in fact even in the next county. Pen Mill being sited right next to the sewage works (sometimes only too obviously) gives a bit of a clue that there wasn't a lot of revenue generating land use adjacent to it.

And the original station, Hendford wasn't any better

 

[Gloster]

The book (The Longest Journey by E. M. Forster) is fiction, and I'm now thinking perhaps the author was exercising some artistic licence in describing a train he'd seen in a different place! It's a regular passenger train, no suggestion of any military context.

The mention of Andover is interesting. The unnamed location from the published book can't be Andover (it's described as being across Salisbury Plain from the Winterbournes/Porton and on a different railway line, hence why I thought of Westbury) - but it was Andover in an early draft, and the detail about the train could possibly be a remnant of that.

If it is across Salisbury Plain from Porton and the Winterbournes, then that seems to mean north: the next line that way was the Great Western Railway’s ‘Berks & Hants’ line which ran from Reading via Newbury, Hungerford, Pewsey and Devizes to Holt Junction between Melksham and Trowbridge. The junction at Holt faced south so any train coming this way would not need to reverse to continue on to Trowbridge, Westbury and Salisbury. Similarly a train would only need to reverse at Westbury if it had come the Frome direction and was going to Salisbury, but I don’t think that this was ever a regular practice.

To complicate things a bit, on 1 October 1900 a cut off was built from Patney & Chiron, south-east of Devizes, to Westbury, but all this would do was miss Devizes, Holt and Trowbridge. It would not require an additional reversal.

N.b. The line from Patney & Chirton via Devizes to Holt was closed and lifted in the 1960s.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

The other possibility is the Marlborough / Savernake area which is 'across Salisbury Plain from the Winterbournes / Porton'. Marlborough had two stations, GWR and M & SWJR, and until 1898 M & SWJR trains had to use the GWR branch to Savernake and part of the Berks & Hants before continuing south to Andover. In 1898 an independent 'high level' line was opened with Savernake having its own M & SWJR station. Did the author witness a temporary shunting move during construction of this new line?

 

[Gloster]

The other possibility is the Marlborough / Savernake area which is 'across Salisbury Plain from the Winterbournes / Porton'. Marlborough had two stations, GWR and M & SWJR, and until 1898 M & SWJR trains had to use the GWR branch to Savernake and part of the Berks & Hants before continuing south to Andover. In 1898 an independent 'high level' line was opened with Savernake having its own M & SWJR station. Did the author witness a temporary shunting move during construction of this new line?

The connecting line at Marlborough was closed on 26 June 1898 and not reopened until 1926. Previously it would have been necessary to make a reversing move if going from the GWR station to the M&SWR one and v.v., but I suspect that this was not a normal move with a passenger train.

Going back to one of the earlier points, Amesbury could be seen as being across the Plain from Porton and the Winterbournes, but it is pushing the meaning of ‘across Salisbury Plain‘ a bit. The problem with Amesbury is that the unusual movement would probably only apply to military trains.

 

[35B]

We're assuming that Forster was writing something that was prototypically accurate, and that it happened in the location in which he set his novel. I'd be more inclined to ask whether there's any symbolism in the shunting around together with where Forster might have experienced this in his life more generally.

The specific movement (reverse out of the station, then go forward through it) puts me most in mind of Scarborough, and the operation of trains on the Whitby line - and even there it's hardly a precise description.

 

[Taunton]

For any military connection, the army didn't start to move in to Salisbury Plain until about 1900, maybe after the book was written, and progressively bought up farms until 1945, with large expansion peaks during the two wars. In Victorian times it was just farmland, with the main army training grounds at Aldershot.

 

[Gloster]

Wikipedia’s entry (yes, I know) on The Longest Journey says that the loose plot was worked out in July 1904. The novel was worked on in the first half of 1906 and completed from October the same year. As this coincides with a number of railway developments (see entries above), the matter is complicated.

 

[Acathater]

Wikipedia’s entry (yes, I know) on The Longest Journey says that the loose plot was worked out in July 1904. The novel was worked on in the first half of 1906 and completed from October the same year. As this coincides with a number of railway developments (see entries above), the matter is complicated.

If I'm right about Yeovil, then the date just fits as the Junction was rebuilt in 1905

 

[Gloster]

If I'm right about Yeovil, then the date just fits as the Junction was rebuilt in 1905

Well, I can’t see Yeovil, Templecombe, Dorchester South or Salisbury (main stations or Milford) being likely, while Andover, Marlborough and Grateley are all pushing the geography a bit. The only (just) plausible one is Amesbury, where the line on to Bulford was opened on 1 June 1906; Amesbury station would have been enlarged at this time, but still doesn’t seem to fit the description of the movements if it is a regular passenger train.

@Plagiomnium ; where in the book is it? My local library appears to have a copy, if they haven’t lost it, and I am going in to town tomorrow. I could read the piece of text, but I found Forster heavy going so don’t want to plough through the lot.

 

[Acathater]

@Plagiomnium ; where in the book is it? My local library appears to have a copy, if they haven’t lost it, and I am going in to town tomorrow. I could read the piece of text, but I found Forster heavy going so don’t want to plough through the lot.

from the plot synopsis on wiki it does look a bit depressive...

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

.
The text of 'The Longest Journey' is available on-line.

Chapter 33

He observed that the country was smoother and more plastic. The woods had gone, and under a pale-blue sky long contours of earth were flowing, and merging, rising a little to bear some coronal of beeches, parting a little to disclose some green valley, where cottages stood under elms or beside translucent waters. It was Wiltshire at last. The train had entered the chalk. At last it slackened at a wayside platform. Without speaking he opened the door.

"What's that for?"

"To go back."

Stephen had forgotten the threat. He said that this was not playing the game.

"Surely!"

"I can't have you going back."

"Promise to behave decently then."

He was seized and pulled away from the door.

"We change at Salisbury," he remarked. "There is an hour to wait. You will find me troublesome."

Chapter 33 seems to the journey to Wiltshire. He is such a turgid writer I have only skimmed read it at this late hour! I can't see any reference to reversing at Salisbury or anywhere else - but I think this is only a partial extract.