Trivia: Defunct TOC names still used by passengers / media

[thenorthern]

Every now and then I see "Northern Rail" used in the media or by passengers, occasionally I see the #NorthernFail on X (previously Twitter) as well even though the Northern Rail brand hasn't been used for nearly 10 years now.

It made me wonder what other defunct railway brands just won't disappear. I suppose the most obvious one is British Rail who haven't operated trains since 1997. I still sometimes hear the Virgin Trains name used by passengers as well as London Midland, East Coast and for a while Virgin Trains being used to talk about CrossCountry after 2007. Strangely I never hear anyone use the name Connex but I think we know why.

 

[nw1]

It shows how out of touch I am about some other parts of the country... I still think of the local TOC in the north as Northern!

I think it's because the frequency of my visits to Northern England had dropped off significantly in recent years, for various reasons the last time I visited the north was pre-Covid. On the other hand I went up there frequently around 10 years ago.

South West Trains would surely be one, as they operated the railways in this area for many years.

Not a TOC, but Network SouthEast of course.

InterCity in a sense, except that "inter-city" or "IC" can also be used in a generic way.

 

[The exile]

It made me wonder what other defunct railway brands just won't disappear. I suppose the most obvious one is British Rail who haven't operated trains since 1997. I still sometimes hear the Virgin Trains name used by passengers as well as London Midland, East Coast and for a while Virgin Trains being used to talk about CrossCountry after 2007. Strangely I never hear anyone use the name Connex but I think we know why.

Quite apart from anything else, Connex was just a random word (does anyone still refer to “One”) whereas Virgin is a well known brand from elsewhere, and both London Midland and East Coast are reasonably logically descriptive (even if you do have to travel a long way from London to actually see the East Coast!)

 

[xotGD]

When some brand consultants decide that XYZ Rail should become XYZ Trains (or the reverse), why should the travelling public take notice or care? They'll just refer to it as XYZ anyway.

I travel on Northern all the time, but I don't know if the official name is Northern Trains, Northern Rail, Northern Railway or just plain Northern.

 

[warwickshire]

I still hear, London Midlands, even Central Trains, still, bizarrly some of the elderly refer it to as British Rail still in business as well, here in the West Midlands, however the later is returming again though , but under the Great British Railways Brand.

 

[contrex]

My grandma insisted that she used the 'Midland Railway' to get from Derby to St Pancras as late as 1965.

 

[Rescars]

When some brand consultants decide that XYZ Rail should become XYZ Trains (or the reverse), why should the travelling public take notice or care? They'll just refer to it as XYZ anyway.

I travel on Northern all the time, but I don't know if the official name is Northern Trains, Northern Rail, Northern Railway or just plain Northern.

I suggest that the travelling public's primary concern is whether the advertised timetable is a work of fact or fiction. The identities of the various operators only become relevant if there is a direct impact on the passenger, such as complexities in ticketing restricting which trains can be taken over a particular route, or claims for delays, etc. The names of operators which have provided exceptional service, good or bad, tend to linger in the memory long after their corporate identity has been refreshed.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Mar 2026 ==

My grandma insisted that she used the 'Midland Railway' to get from Derby to St Pancras as late as 1965.

There is also the matter of wistful hindsight. Perhaps contrex's grandma had rose tinted spectacles coloured to a deeper shade of Midland red.

 

[bramling]

It shows how out of touch I am about some other parts of the country... I still think of the local TOC in the north as Northern!

I think it's because the frequency of my visits to Northern England had dropped off significantly in recent years, for various reasons the last time I visited the north was pre-Covid. On the other hand I went up there frequently around 10 years ago.

South West Trains would surely be one, as they operated the railways in this area for many years.

Not a TOC, but Network SouthEast of course.

InterCity in a sense, except that "inter-city" or "IC" can also be used in a generic way.

Definitely Intercity is still in reasonably common use, especially among people aged over 30. NSE not so much now although still can be occasionally heard.

Round here FCC and WAGN are pretty much extinct, yet you do hear GNER very occasionally.

 

[LUYMun]

Anecdotally speaking, South West Trains is still used by normals to describe the current South Western Railway operations. Better still, the two names are often combined to become “South Western Trains” or “South West Rail”.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I recently overheard a young man ranting that he would complain to London Transport about the station toilets being closed.
The name "London Transport" has not been used for over twenty years - probably since before he was born!
............and the station in question was Kingston, which has never been operated by London Transport or TfL anyway.

 

[sprinterguy]

It shows how out of touch I am about some other parts of the country... I still think of the local TOC in the north as Northern!

It is, it's just the "Rail" bit that's changed/been dropped. As far as I know, anyway; I've just called it "Northern" for over twenty years now.

 

[Sealink]

My mum called Belfast York Road station (when it was open) in Belfast as "The LMS"

 

[norbitonflyer]

My grandmother was 90 years old when she died in 1987. To the end of her days she always taked about "Third Class" (renamed "Second class in 1956) and "Waterloo Junction" - of which she was a regular user as she travelled between her own home in SE London and her sister's in North Devon (particularly during WW2, as her children were sent to live with their aunt for the Duration). It ceased to be a junction in 1911 and was renamed in 1935, and again in 1977.

 

[thenorthern]

Regarding Connex given they had a bad reputation it's not a surprise the name isn't used anymore.

It's a similar thing with the ITV companies I regularly hear people say Granada, Yorkshire and Central but never Carlton.

 

[stadler]

I will admit that i still quite often say British Rail by accident. Obviously i know that they no longer exist but it has just become so stuck in my head that i often forget and still say it by mistake. It seems to be a common one.

 

[bramling]

I recently overheard a young man ranting that he would complain to London Transport about the station toilets being closed.
The name "London Transport" has not been used for over twenty years - probably since before he was born!
............and the station in question was Kingston, which has never been operated by London Transport or TfL anyway.

It’s always pleasing to hear London Transport being used, and indeed I know a few people who use it deliberately.

Who wouldn’t want to hark back to the brilliant organisation who brought us marvels like the 1938 stock, the intricate engineering required to construct the Victoria Line, the programme machine and automatic trains, rather than the rancid politicised debased mayorified shambles of an organisation that is TFL?

 

[stadler]

London Regional Transport is still used by the automated announcements at many London Underground stations. I have heard it last month at two stations. That terms even survives in official announcements.

 

[bramling]

London Regional Transport is still used by the automated announcements at many London Underground stations. I have heard it last month at two stations. That terms even survives in official announcements.

The byelaws were still “London Transport Railway Byelaws” recently too, they may still be.

 

[thenorthern]

It shows how out of touch I am about some other parts of the country... I still think of the local TOC in the north as Northern!

I think it's because the frequency of my visits to Northern England had dropped off significantly in recent years, for various reasons the last time I visited the north was pre-Covid. On the other hand I went up there frequently around 10 years ago.

South West Trains would surely be one, as they operated the railways in this area for many years.

Not a TOC, but Network SouthEast of course.

InterCity in a sense, except that "inter-city" or "IC" can also be used in a generic way.

It is Northern however the "Northern Rail" name hasn't been used since the Serco-Abellio franchise expired in 2016 and was replaced by Northern by Arriva which in turn was replaced by the Northern brand we have today.

 

[Rescars]

Definitely Intercity is still in reasonably common use, especially among people aged over 30. NSE not so much now although still can be occasionally heard.

London Regional Transport is still used by the automated announcements at many London Underground stations. I have heard it last month at two stations. That terms even survives in official announcements.

Some of these names have a long history. "The Inter-City" was a named train between Paddington and Birmingham SH / Wolverhampton LL introduced in by BR in 1950. Underground Electric Railways Co of London Ltd (colloquially shortened to The Underground) was established in 1902.

 

[nw1]

I recently overheard a young man ranting that he would complain to London Transport about the station toilets being closed.
The name "London Transport" has not been used for over twenty years - probably since before he was born!
............and the station in question was Kingston, which has never been operated by London Transport or TfL anyway.

I still think of it as London Transport, I have to admit, or London Regional Transport. But I first used the Tube in December 1979 (as a child), with frequent usage in the 80s, so I suppose I can get away with it.

Putney Bridge being the station. Basically an informal "Park and Ride", we parked on some residential road in the area. I remember being puzzled when we drove straight past Putney (BR) station, I suppose in those days I didn't have any concept of BR also running suburban services.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Mar 2026 ==

It is Northern however the "Northern Rail" name hasn't been used since the Serco-Abellio franchise expired in 2016 and was replaced by Northern by Arriva which in turn was replaced by the Northern brand we have today.

Ah fair enough, to be honest even in the Serco/Abellio days i just thought of it as "Northern". Now you mention it, I know I've seen "Northern by Arriva", I think it was still that last time I was up there.

 

[Zugaga]

I have heard British Rail without irony from a few people. I wonder how many still remember the Worst Late Western Fare Strike.

Anecdotally speaking, South West Trains is still used by normals to describe the current South Western Railway operations. Better still, the two names are often combined to become “South Western Trains” or “South West Rail”.

This particular game of spot the difference goes beyond the similar names, of course: the bulk of the rolling stock didn't change for some time, and they pretty much kept the livery apart from rotating the order of colours.
It occurs to me that one reason Connex has been forgotten might be because neither trains nor togs are yellow any longer.

 

[KevinTurvey]

I still occasionally Arriva Trains Wales and London Midland and Virgin mentioned. I even forget sometimes as some of these franchises were held for 15- 20 years or thereabouts.

I recall receiving credit card statements for tickets bought at Liverpool Lime St going through as "First North Western" for a long time after they ceased to exist (I mean years)

 

[Taunton]

We used to live on Roman Road ...

British Rail is excusable because their classic logo has never been dropped and there's really no other name for the overall operation that has ever got traction.

Thameslink is another where the operator of that name has gone but the term, even in official items, carries on. I believe in the first week after the TOC changing over City Thameslink had the signage crudely amended to just City, but was then changed back.

 

[frankmoh]

It occurs to me that one reason Connex has been forgotten might be because neither trains nor togs are yellow any longer.

Well, there is a Connex-branded sign at Shortlands and the last Connex yellow-liveried train disappeared in December last year or whenever all of the 376s got wrapped. But yes, Connex is a mostly meaningless term, unlike 'Midland' or 'South Western'.

A tad offtopic, but most people I know call it "the Thameslink", seemingly as a named train instead of a company. I have also heard people say "the c2c".

 

[sprinterguy]

I still occasionally Arriva Trains Wales and London Midland and Virgin mentioned. I even forget sometimes as some of these franchises were held for 15- 20 years or thereabouts.

I always still refer to the operator as London Midland. Lasted a good decade and I can never be fussed trying to remember which half of West Mids Trains or the absolute mouthful that is LNWR, when pronounced in full, that I'm travelling with on any given journey.

 

[nw1]

We used to live on Roman Road ...

British Rail is excusable because their classic logo has never been dropped and there's really no other name for the overall operation that has ever got traction.

Thameslink is another where the operator of that name has gone but the term, even in official items, carries on. I believe in the first week after the TOC changing over City Thameslink had the signage crudely amended to just City, but was then changed back.

Also, Thameslink is presumably the general name for the cross-London link, and exists independent of any TOC. Certainly right from the outset in 1988, when still under nationalised control, it was known as Thameslink.

 

[Zugaga]

We used to live on Roman Road ...

British Rail is excusable because their classic logo has never been dropped and there's really no other name for the overall operation that has ever got traction.

Thameslink is another where the operator of that name has gone but the term, even in official items, carries on. I believe in the first week after the TOC changing over City Thameslink had the signage crudely amended to just City, but was then changed back.

Also, Thameslink is presumably the general name for the cross-London link, and exists independent of any TOC. Certainly right from the outset in 1988, when still under nationalised control, it was known as Thameslink.

Yes and no. The Thameslink *project* goes back to 1988, and St Paul's Thameslink station (later, though not much later, renamed City Thameslink) overlaps with the Holborn Viaduct station it replaced (I cannot claim knowledge of all sign alterations). Thameslink livery appeared after privatisation, was superseded by First Capital Connect, and then went back to Thameslink, the T in GTR and one of its four brands.

 

[Dunfanaghy Roa]

My grandmother was 90 years old when she died in 1987. To the end of her days she always taked about "Third Class" (renamed "Second class in 1956) and "Waterloo Junction" - of which she was a regular user as she travelled between her own home in SE London and her sister's in North Devon (particularly during WW2, as her children were sent to live with their aunt for the Duration). It ceased to be a junction in 1911 and was renamed in 1935, and again in 1977.

My mother was younger (born 1918) and didn't go to London until the Hitler War when she started nursing. It was always Waterloo Junction to her, though.

Somewhat more recently - the MoD staff at Marchwood always called us 'BR', until DB took over EWS. Then they woke up and called us - EWS!

Pat

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It is Northern however the "Northern Rail" name hasn't been used since the Serco-Abellio franchise expired in 2016 and was replaced by Northern by Arriva which in turn was replaced by the Northern brand we have today.

Then there's Great Northern in some parts, Great North Eastern in others, and the coming Great British Railways.

Oddly Great Northern is more visible than LNWR, L&Y or LMS in parts of the north-west, because of the way the GN plastered its name on buildings in the region (eg Deansgate Warehouse in Manchester, now the Great Northern Centre).
The GN itself didn't have a big profile in the area, getting there by courtesy of the Cheshire Lines Committee, of which it was a one-third owner with the MS&L/GC and the Midland.