Changes to North Wales services from the May 2026 timetable

[Watershed]

It's available to view in journey planners (for those that allow searches several months into the future) as well as on Real Time Trains.

There's now generally 2 Wrexham-London journey opportunities an hour: the existing one with a ~10 minute change at Chester, and a new one with a ~10 minute change at Crewe onto an ex-Manchester service. It's a similar picture northbound.

Unfortunately the connections aren't as good in hours when the Manchester-Euston via Crewe or Chester-Euston services don't run. They remain particularly poor on Sundays since Crewe-Wrexham remains split at Chester, and fewer WCML services run on Sunday mornings.

 

[AllWork]

Thanks. It’ll be interesting to see whether the WSML idea is weakened by this. Different pattern of course.

 

[elltrain3]

Avanti fill the gap for most of the day. They're late getting started in the morning with nothing from 0626 to 0946, but after that it's hourly all the way through to 2149.

In the other direction, it's a better spread with a near hourly service between Chester and Crewe from 0624 to 2134, with just one missing service around 1830.

A second TfW service between Crewe and Chester would give 3tph for the vast majority of the day - the pathing of which at times that provide useful connections might be difficult given the lack of platform space at Chester and the long block section between Crewe Steel Works and Beeston Castle.

The Block section is certainly a bottleneck but due to track access requirements increasing the 2tph is unlikely! An Intermediate Block signal in the section would be ideal, meaning the block section goes from 7 mins to about 4.

The 1830 was a service for a short while not long back (1A78 1832 Chester - Euston) providing an excellent evening direct train to London, but it's since reverted to 5A78 running down to London ECS which is a shame.

If you want an idea of what 3tph looks like, the current Sunday timetable is pretty manic all day with trains alternating between Shuttles and Holyheads, plus the Avanti's!

 

[craigybagel]

If you want an idea of what 3tph looks like, the current Sunday timetable is pretty manic all day with trains alternating between Shuttles and Holyheads, plus the Avanti's!

I know, I drive them I'm fully in agreement that 1tph TfW and 1tph Avanti is the best we can realistically hope for right now - it's just a pity about the gaps in the latter service (though those gaps are nowhere near as big as they were a few years ago immediately post COVID).

 

[BenBracken]

I’m curious about the other timetable change mentioned, the extra services to west Wales, more specifically to Tenby. From what I can work out there is an extra Carmarthen to Tenby shuttle running, to give an hourly frequency at some points in the day in the summer. As there are no passing places between Whitland and Tenby I can only presume that it shuttles down whilst the usual service has its usual lengthy stop in Pembroke Dock?

 

[craigybagel]

I’m curious about the other timetable change mentioned, the extra services to west Wales, more specifically to Tenby. From what I can work out there is an extra Carmarthen to Tenby shuttle running, to give an hourly frequency at some points in the day in the summer. As there are no passing places between Whitland and Tenby I can only presume that it shuttles down whilst the usual service has its usual lengthy stop in Pembroke Dock?

That's exactly it. They're running non stop Whitland - Tenby and it just times nicely to give an hourly service those hours. That said, it only runs twice a day on the dates I checked.

 

[M60lad]

What services will 158 be used on from the new timetable?

 

[Welshman]

So more 2 coach 197s floating around in North Wales?

As for Crewe - Wrexham, I will give until December before they split it back up due to importing delays across Chester and excessively long dwell times due to the changeover of passengers, especially as where the shuttles at the moment can make use of the bay platforms (1 for Crewe, 2 for Wrexham), the direct service will need to use either P3 or P4 (maybe at a push P7 if there is a gap in Merseyrail).

I do hope not - the 6 or so minute challenge from arriving at platform 4 approx x50 from North Wales to leaving at platform 1 at x56 for Crewe, over the footbridge and down platform 3B - is quite daunting for the not-so-fleet-of-foot with a heavy suitcase! Far less stress to have the same-platform interchange, as proposed.

One other advantage of the new timetable not mentioned so far are the later through services well into the evening from Manchester to North Wales. At present, the last through train at 1945 [the alternative being a change at Chester at 2200 or so at night] make a visit to a show or theatre less attractive by rail. {I know there is one at 23.25 or so, but that's regularity seems to depend on engineering works}

 

[gazthomas]

Standing loads on a couple of Llandudno branch trains today…!

‘Big’ football match, Welsh Cup Semi-Final Flint v Bangor played at a sold out Llandudno FC

Flint won if anyone is interested….!

And a brawl outside the railway station at Llandudno which included "saviour of Bangor" Mr Pritchard.

 

[Llandudno]

And a brawl outside the railway station at Llandudno which included "saviour of Bangor" Mr Pritchard.

Presumably the police weekend expecting trouble hence the 1230 kick off!

 

[NCT]

An all-day 3tph North Wales timetable is a pretty good service level by all accounts. At this frequency it is right that the timetable is standardised and operational efficiency led. It doesn't make sense for Birmingham/Cardiff, Manchester and Liverpool services to all alternate between Holyhead and Llandudno / Junction - the timetable would be too messy and inefficient. Those journeys that now require a change mostly have relatively good interchanges as far as I can tell.

 

[HS2isgood]

All TfW all stops, or there will be differences?

 

[Bletchleyite]

All TfW all stops, or there will be differences?

There are different patterns. It's all on Realtime Trains if you want to see it.

In particular, the two Holyhead services will split the stops between Llanfairfechan/Penmaenmawr and the Anglesey stations bar Llanfairpwll which everything (or nearly everything) stops at as it's becoming a very busy (in Anglesey terms) park and ride despite the signboard being borderline bigger than the place.

 

[Krokodil]

All TfW all stops, or there will be differences?

- Llandudno-Liverpools are all-stops
- Holyhead-Manchesters are all stops from Llanfairpwll to Chester except Abergele
- Holyhead-Cardiffs (except for the WAG) cover all stops to Bangor, then Junction/Colwyn Bay/Rhyl/Prestatyn/Flint
- Junction-Birminghams skip Abergele and Shotton as now
- The WAG and all London trains use the existing patterns.

 

[cle]

- Llandudno-Liverpools are all-stops
- Holyhead-Manchesters are all stops from Llanfairpwll to Chester except Abergele
- Holyhead-Cardiffs (except for the WAG) cover all stops to Bangor, then Junction/Colwyn Bay/Rhyl/Prestatyn/Flint
- Junction-Birminghams skip Abergele and Shotton as now
- The WAG and all London trains use the existing patterns.

So other than those exceptions, it broadly is a 3tph service between Llandudno and Chester with the faster extras. Birmingham skipping Shotton - that doesn't feel right. Is the Borderlands service still due for increases?

I'd have thought Holyhead-Manchester might have a faster pattern, big of a slog for the ferry (if that is how it ends up being used) - or indeed to the airport the other way (is it still to Man Airport?)

 

[The exile]

So other than those exceptions, it broadly is a 3tph service between Llandudno and Chester with the faster extras. Birmingham skipping Shotton - that doesn't feel right. Is the Borderlands service still due for increases?

Is it not quicker to change at Wrexham?

 

[NCT]

There's not much stopping pattern variation between Chester and Llandudno Junction. It's only Shotton and Abergele that get skipped by some/most services.

 

[Krokodil]

So other than those exceptions, it broadly is a 3tph service between Llandudno and Chester with the faster extras.

3tph from Llandudno Junction. Plus the Londons, yes.

Birmingham skipping Shotton - that doesn't feel right.

Isn't 2tph enough on the low level?

 

[Penmorfa]

Standing loads on a couple of Llandudno branch trains today…!

‘Big’ football match, Welsh Cup Semi-Final Flint v Bangor played at a sold out Llandudno FC

Flint won if anyone is interested….!

I think all eyes were on Wrexham last Saturday

 

[Djgr]

Isn't 2tph enough on the low level?

If Shotton is a (the?) key interchange in the Network North Wales then pretty fundamental that trains actually stop there.

 

[Lewisham2221]

If Shotton is a (the?) key interchange in the Network North Wales then pretty fundamental that trains actually stop there.

Is Shotton the key interchange? I've not read the plans in any depth. I would've presumed Chester and Llandudno Junction (and Bidston) would be the main interchange focus, with Wrexham General and Shotton being more of a secondary interchange.

 

[Djgr]

Is Shotton the key interchange? I've not read the plans in any depth. I would've presumed Chester and Llandudno Junction (and Bidston) would be the main interchange focus, with Wrexham General and Shotton being more of a secondary interchange.

Well it's the only station on the map of the plans given the suffix "interchange"!

 

[Kite159]

At least the new timetable has slightly better connections at Shotton for anybody wanting to interchange. As some of the current connections are a bit rubbish.

 

[Djgr]

At least the new timetable has slightly better connections at Shotton for anybody wanting to interchange. As some of the current connections are a bit rubbish.

Only saving grace at the moment is the Spoons on its doorstep.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

At least the new timetable has slightly better connections at Shotton for anybody wanting to interchange. As some of the current connections are a bit rubbish.

Shotton has always had the Llandudno service (currently ex-Manchester, ex-Liverpool from May), and some other early/late calls in other services.
It will also keep the Manchester (from May to Holyhead), so now 2tph rather than 1tph.

There are plans to improve the physical interchange at Shotton, both sets of platforms being bare and unattractive.
The low level station was a BR low-cost timber lash-up on the old fast lines, necessitated when they removed the slow lines where the old platforms were.

Connections are complicated with fixed times on the main line but a 45-minute interval on the Wrexham-Bidston line.

 

[Djgr]

Shotton has always had the Llandudno service (currently ex-Manchester, ex-Liverpool from May), and some other early/late calls in other services.
It will also keep the Manchester (from May to Holyhead), so now 2tph rather than 1tph.

There are plans to improve the physical interchange at Shotton, both sets of platforms being bare and unattractive.
The low level station was a BR low-cost timber lash-up on the old fast lines, necessitated when they removed the slow lines where the old platforms were.

Connections are complicated with fixed times on the main line but a 45-minute interval on the Wrexham-Bidston line.

The irony is that the Shotton/Deeside population is by far the largest on the line (Bangor×3) but has always had the worst service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The irony is that the Shotton/Deeside population is by far the largest on the line (Bangor×3) but has always had the worst service.

Basically no tourist demand though.

 

[amahy]

One big upgrade not yet mentioned in this thread, is the removal of the current long gap between Llandudno services, between 10:53 and 12:38 from Llandudno Junction.

 

[Lewisham2221]

Basically no tourist demand though.

And at least 6 buses per hour into Chester as far as I can see. I wonder if it's one of those situations where, point-to-point, the bus is more convenient than the train for shorter journeys? (Bus stop closer to home and/or closer to destination than the train railway station)

 

[gazthomas]

One big upgrade not yet mentioned in this thread, is the removal of the current long gap between Llandudno services, between 10:53 and 12:38 from Llandudno Junction.

I still find it amazing that the first service west in the morning is the 7.40 Avanti service to Holyhead. Not the most reliable and certainly not of much use