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Fire at Glasgow Central (08/03/26)

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aaronspence

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In this case they had to pump water from the Clyde. In a place without a massive river nearby, definitely not.

Very interesting and eye-opening article about the shop where it started and fire safety enforcement generally.


And probably no insurance either.
 
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gravitystorm

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because the fire is not yet declared extinguished and safe. Nothing can happen until it is.

But this is again my point! I'm sure the Fire Service have limited budgets, and other things to be getting on with, and so for them it makes sense to have a couple of appliances on site and wait for the flames to die down. They have no reason to rush, they aren't taking any wider hit to their finances by taking it slow and steady. It's rational behaviour for the Fire Service, and it's an economically efficient use of resources for them too.

But if you look at it from a wider picture, the railway and/or the government should be looking at it and saying this isn't just a single building fire, only affecting the occupants of the building, this is having a huge impact on tens of thousands of the members of the national workforce, what more resources can we muster to get things moving, every hour equates to a surprisingly large sum of lost revenue or lost workforce productivity.

It all feels very plodding. Each organisation just waits for a different organisation. Everything gets done in a linear sequence. There's no imaginative solutions. There's an organisational attitude of generalised helplessness, and no organisation has both the grasp of the scale and the urgency and which has the empowerment to act on it.
 

AndrewE

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Very interesting and eye-opening article about the shop where it started and fire safety enforcement generally.


Bet they weren't insured either, so the neighbouring businesses will have to rely on their own insurance
I have felt for a while that we should have something like the Italian Guardia di Finanza, read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardia_di_Finanza for the breadth of their remit. Zero tolerance of frauds would give us healthier town centres and possibly public finances too...

There is a continuous stream of "businesses" going bust or being put into administration and very often it seems that the biggest debt is to the taxman (i.e. the rest of us.) Often it seems to be that National Insurance (taken from their employees if there are any) hasn't been paid, again jeopardising other people's futures.
Companies' House is finally being prodded into doing something (probably a token something) about fraudulent company registrations, but nobody seems to care about accounts not being produced for years etc., which allows them to keep trading while piling up more debts, damaging their suppliers while undercutting good businesses.

I will cross-post this in a new thread to avoid diverting this one...
 

68000

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In this case they had to pump water from the Clyde. In a place without a massive river nearby, definitely not.

Very interesting and eye-opening article about the shop where it started and fire safety enforcement generally.

I like Ferret Scotland but they misname the building (not the only outlet to do so). The Forsyth building is on the Gordon Street / Reinfield Street corner (the one with Greggs). Other than that gripe, good reporting of the lack of standards and enforcement in general.
 

MadCommuter

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I doubt if the hit to the wider economy is that much. People will not stop going to work, they'll find another way of doing it (I suppose a few might work from home). Most long-distance travellers will go via Edinburgh or Motherwell, or they'll fly, or they'll go on the coach, or they'll drive. Obviously the hit to the railway itself is more of an issue.
There are a huge amount of shops and businesses that are inaccessible to pedestrians. At least 2 whole blocks. It's devastating.
 

DarloRich

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But this is again my point! I'm sure the Fire Service have limited budgets, and other things to be getting on with, and so for them it makes sense to have a couple of appliances on site and wait for the flames to die down.
it takes as long as it takes. That's the key. Once the fire brigade have finished then the other tasks can begin. There is a lot of work going on in the background that will never be seen to get things up and running and soon as possible but the first stage is to have the site released from fire brigade control.

At that point you can start to throw money around and have some impact. BTW: The railway is good at responding to fires and as this is, literally, the response to a fire (!) I bet it is a pretty quick turn around.

PS: I am fairly certain the Scottish Government is offering whatever support is required to help deliver each of the tasks needed to make the site safe and get the station open.
 

35B

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But this is again my point! I'm sure the Fire Service have limited budgets, and other things to be getting on with, and so for them it makes sense to have a couple of appliances on site and wait for the flames to die down. They have no reason to rush, they aren't taking any wider hit to their finances by taking it slow and steady. It's rational behaviour for the Fire Service, and it's an economically efficient use of resources for them too.

But if you look at it from a wider picture, the railway and/or the government should be looking at it and saying this isn't just a single building fire, only affecting the occupants of the building, this is having a huge impact on tens of thousands of the members of the national workforce, what more resources can we muster to get things moving, every hour equates to a surprisingly large sum of lost revenue or lost workforce productivity.

It all feels very plodding. Each organisation just waits for a different organisation. Everything gets done in a linear sequence. There's no imaginative solutions. There's an organisational attitude of generalised helplessness, and no organisation has both the grasp of the scale and the urgency and which has the empowerment to act on it.
Crisis responses tend to be the most expensive form, and I'm certainly not getting the sense that people are slacking in trying to achieve a reopening. Given the chemistry behind the cause of the fire, I can forgive the fire brigade for erring on the side of caution.

There's another point. You are arguing that the government must do everything possible to mitigate the economic consequences of this event because of the impact on productivity. Yet that public expenditure will come through as private gain, to individuals and businesses. Given the contingency arrangements that people and companies can make, I really struggle with this panicked portrayal.

If there is a role for government in boosting its response, then it lies in what others have linked to in external reporting. Ensuring that the current level of regulation is enforced, and that the probability that one trader will cause harm to others, would do far more good than spending a very large amount on something that no one even knows is necessary.

Oh, and one other observation. I was involved in a project where a very large scaffolding was set up. The cost of the scaffolding (set up, hire, and take down) was ~£450k, and it took 6 weeks to put up, and a similar time to dismount. That was with a wall to build it against. I'm sure it could be hurried (the project was very definitely cost constrained), but the loss of a few days at this stage is frankly irrelevant in the wider scheme of things.
 

InOban

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I would have thought that insurance would be the responsibility of the owner of the building. I assume that the businesses in it were tenants.
 

deerokus

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I think I read that with lithium battery fires the best practice is to cool the site down with water for at least three or four days to reduce the chances of reignition. More fire engines on location wouldn't make it any faster
 

mpthomson

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Plenty of Road over Canal bridges in Birmingham have FireBrigade access hatches built into them to provide quick access for suction hoses if required

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
Indeed, canals are used frequently by fire brigades, as they did with the Standedge Tunnel fire a few weeks ago, as it's basically an unlimited supply of water.
 

Krokodil

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I think I read that with lithium battery fires the best practice is to cool the site down with water for at least three or four days to reduce the chances of reignition. More fire engines on location wouldn't make it any faster
Indeed, when Richard Hammond crashed that Rimac there were still damaged cells igniting five days later. Can't be too careful.
 

The exile

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Indeed, canals are used frequently by fire brigades, as they did with the Standedge Tunnel fire a few weeks ago, as it's basically an unlimited supply of water.
Unless it’s a summit supplied by a reservoir that hasn’t been properly dredged /maintained for decades!
 

brick60000

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Caledonian Sleeper have just posted to Facebook that the station will be closed until at least Monday 16th March.

Edit - although post subsequently removed and just changed to a generic timeframe as found elsewhere.
 
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Warrior2852

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The police cordon on Hope Street - the western edge of the station - has been removed, that street is open to traffic again. First sign I've seen of anything around Central starting to slightly open up.
The building itself on Union Street, on the eastern side of the station, still has two constant fire hoses firing at it.
 

swt_passenger

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Presumably while the remaining free standing wall is still there, facing Gordon St, then that road, the junction, and the top of Union St will have to be kept clear? Will they pull it down quickly as a precaution, because I’d expect it would be take some time to shore it up properly.
 

DelW

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It all feels very plodding. Each organisation just waits for a different organisation. Everything gets done in a linear sequence. There's no imaginative solutions. There's an organisational attitude of generalised helplessness, and no organisation has both the grasp of the scale and the urgency and which has the empowerment to act on it.
How do you "know" all this? Are you so closely involved in the recovery process that you've witnessed this?

The people who will certainly be very busy right now working out how to safely get the station and the surrounding area up and running again are far better spending their time and energy doing all that, rather than issuing press releases and tweets saying what they're doing. Don't criticise if you're not a party to the work that's being done.

As often on these threads, I'm reminded of the old saying "nothing is difficult to the man who doesn't have to do it himself".
 

InOban

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Low level will open tomorrow according to Network Rail
Main station closed until further notice
 

Rail Ranger

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It was fortunate that the fire happened on a Sunday. There could have been fatalities if it had happened during the week.
 

The exile

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It was fortunate that the fire happened on a Sunday. There could have been fatalities if it had happened during the week.
Given that there were clearly people in the building anyway, not sure what difference it would have made.
 

deerokus

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It was fortunate that the fire happened on a Sunday. There could have been fatalities if it had happened during the week.
Well in Scotland Sunday is a normal shopping day so I doubt that made much difference - all the businesses would have been open. However the timing was fortunate. The Glasgow derby was on and would have been finished around then with large crowds arriving in the city centre or leaving pubs had it not gone to penalties, which were just finishing exactly as the fire started.
 

Rail Ranger

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The BBC interviewed a young woman who had lost her business in one of the upper floors. The impression was given that she was not in the building when it caught fire. Another woman referred to in the piece who had a business in the building was not in the building when the fire started.

BBC News - Business owners 'heartbroken' after retail units destroyed in Glasgow fire - BBC News
"Business owners have said they are "heartbroken" after dozens of retail units burnt to the ground during a fire in Glasgow".
"MacKinnon was alerted to the news when a friend phoned her on Sunday night and said that the building had gone on fire after what sounded like an explosion".
"Emma Taff, whose business Tafftastic Nails was based in the building, said: "It didn't feel real. It feels like I'm watching a film. It still doesn't feel real even today, I still feel like I'm going to go into work and it'll still be there. My hearts breaks for myself, and every other small business in the building."
 
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hexagon789

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The BBC interviewed a young woman who had lost her business in one of the upper floors. The impression was given that she was not in the building when it caught fire.
All six of the businesses on the ground floor appear to have been open and occupied at the time of the fire:

The vape shop
Subway
Paddy Power
Shelter
Sexy Coffee
Blue Lagoon
 

Falcon1200

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Pulling it down before it falls down of it's own accord

The remaining facade is on the Union Street, not Central station, side, so less of a danger to the station when it does come down, in a controlled manner or not?

the Ayrshire/Inverclyde side of the high-level station is the most likely to return to use first given it's distance from the fire. Whenever that may be.

That would seem logical, and hopefully resources could be concentrated on making say Platforms 9 to 15 safe, with some platforms available for Avanti services.

I expect that capacity will be a major consideration. The last thing anyone wants is too many people trying to pile through too small a doorway.

Until the Gordon Street entrance is available, institute a one-way system, eg entry at Argyle Street and exit at Hope Street.

As a passenger, I'm not going to be comfortable going through a station that is either a danger zone or a construction site, let alone both

In the BBC News Report linked in Post #326 there is a picture of the NR Route Director standing in the main concourse! With a hard hat on, admittedly, but I would be happy going through there.
 

Lewisham2221

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The BBC interviewed a young woman who had lost her business in one of the upper floors. The impression was given that she was not in the building when it caught fire.
They also interviewed a couple who ran a salon on the top floor, who were at work - with a client - when the fire broke out and they needed to evacuate.
BBC News - 'We escaped Glasgow city centre inferno then watched the building crumble to the ground'
Joe Diaz, 32, and his partner Dan Campbell, 29, own Joe Diaz Hair on the fourth floor of 111 Union Street and were inside the studio working when the fire broke out on Sunday...

...The couple ran down four flights of stairs with a client to escape while the building filled with smoke...

...After escaping the blaze, the men stayed to speak to police and watch the situation unfold. They saw how quickly the fire spread and watched the dome they had been in hours earlier collapse.
 
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realemil

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There were something like 50 businesses in the upper floors, apparently. Mostly hairdressers / beauty / nail bars / tattooists.
Apparently most without insurance from what I’m seeing on social media, but that’s a discussion for a different thread
 
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