Trivia: UK bus stations not fit for purpose

[Glasgowbusguy]

I wonder if the proposed new Buchanan street bus station will fall in to this group as the current one is pretty dam good in my opinion but the proposed now one looks like it's been designed by someone who has never used a bus station

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Personally I don't see the point of a bus station
From the look of this thread they're an outdated concept which is not fit for purpose

In Reading it's just a collection of stops dotted around the station, they are open so reasonably safe to wait at at night. No issues with buses reversing etc

I disagree...to an extent and because I think it's a much more nuanced discussion as opposed to a binary yes/no

Do you need a bus station like Preston where all the services call in etc, irrespectively of frequency? No. Like, somewhere like Reading has a high proportion of local bus services at relatively high frequencies so the average wait time is relatively low for passengers and layover for terminating buses is minimised. Also, it benefits from having a centrally located station so all passengers have the benefit of facilities (toilets, cafes, etc) that are accessible even after 5pm

Compare that to a place like Salisbury that lost its bus station. The higher frequency/local services always used the nearby streets but most services used the bus station. They are now displaced to a range of streets and roadside stops with small shelters and limited space. A small bus station would probably make some sense there - perhaps using part of one of the car parks but not near the peripherally located station.

It's horses for courses.

Indeed that is exactly what it was. More remarkably, it was opened in 1939, and buses were rather smaller then (7'6" wide and 30' or shorter). It may have been the first example of a bus station with development above it, but definitely not the first covered bus station, which was Workington in 1926.
The building still exists as Talbot Road Car Park, with a gym now occupying the former bus station.

It was definitely of a different time... People wandering across the apron, little thought to pedestrian waiting areas and refuges...

Have to applaud the developers - you wouldn't know it's the same place now.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

Personally I don't see the point of a bus station
From the look of this thread they're an outdated concept which is not fit for purpose

In Reading it's just a collection of stops dotted around the station, they are open so reasonably safe to wait at at night. No issues with buses reversing etc

If done properly there are a number of reasons for bus stations:
1. To get buses off the city centre roads, allowing them to flow better and/or be pedestrianised for instance.
2. To give secure layover space for buses, again keeping them off streets but also this allows services to run more reliably as recovery time can be created (particularly on lower frequency or long distance services).
3. To create a nicer, more comfortable and sheltered waiting area for passengers over at best a shelter on the roadside not big enough for waiting passengers - also allows public toilet facilities to be provided in a manned facility with security. This is particularly important for lower frequency, and often longer distance, services where passengers are likely to be waiting at the stop longer for a bus.
4. To create a focal point allowing more convenient interchange between services with less walking, and again sheltered and protected to reduce the inconvenience.

The issues raised in this thread are more about improving an important resource than dismissing the concept in its entirely. It is difficult in big cities to produce a bus station large enough for all services (the congestion in Derby bus station is from trying to do such and even there a lot of services don't go in) but having somewhere for the country services to congregate and buses and passenger to wait safely and conveniently is very useful. In a number of these cases there is one issue that could have been improved to make an OK site a good one and in many of the cases mentioned I still prefer the compromised option than nothing as a passenger. For instance in Leicester, St Margarets is excellent except for the discussed issue around the stand set-up for Flixbus services (which any DIRO bus station will struggle with generally) whilst Haymarket is very good but a bit cramped for waiting space for both passengers & buses but in both these cases they are better than the previous offerings and much better than them not existing.

 

[vlad]

I've said elsewhere that I'm not a fan of Hanley - and I've been criticised for saying that.

However, access is via two rather narrow roads - and exit via one of these - which leads to congestion. Then you've got the fact that due to the layout of the station buses leaving one lot of stands have to turn across the path of buses leaving another lot, meaning exit has to be controlled by traffic lights leading to delays. It's not even completely undercover.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I've said elsewhere that I'm not a fan of Hanley - and I've been criticised for saying that.

However, access is via two rather narrow roads - and exit via one of these - which leads to congestion. Then you've got the fact that due to the layout of the station buses leaving one lot of stands have to turn across the path of buses leaving another lot, meaning exit has to be controlled by traffic lights leading to delays. It's not even completely undercover.

Can you clarify what you mean by it not being completely uncover?

I assume you don't mean the entire area so is it the two stands near the entrance (A and B)? I assumed that they were supposed to be for out of hours services (mainly coach services) so the whole place could be locked up overnight?

The curved design does seem to cause a few issues with manoeuvring.

 

[vlad]

Can you clarify what you mean by it not being completely uncover?

I assume you don't mean the entire area so is it the two stands near the entrance (A and B)? I assumed that they were supposed to be for out of hours services (mainly coach services) so the whole place could be locked up overnight?

Yeah that's what I mean - the lowest lettered stands aren't in the main building.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yeah that's what I mean - the lowest lettered stands aren't in the main building.

I think that's because they are supposed to be used by overnighting NX and Flix services and they can lock the building up to stop homeless folk taking up residence. That said, the stands are used by a number of services during the day...

IIRC, Merthyr Tydfil does the same with two stands outside the main bus station building but they're only used after 1830...and Merthyr doesn't have many after that time! There's probably others that do the same.

 

[jupiter]

I’m going to give Poole another kicking as I use the thoroughly-depressing place quite frequently. Ok, it seems Morebus are trying. There are new electronic signs up, fair play, but the development work between the station and Seldown bridge/the coach park is just that, outside the station.

It has a very well used pedestrian thoroughfare using the same tiny width in which people are waiting/queuing. There does seem to be sufficient width to reverse out of the toast rack into, to allow another couple of meters to be allocated to waiting and seating?

No idea when the last redecoration cycle might have been never mind refurbishment. You get the sense no one has any real pride in it, which is really sad.

 

[leedslad82]

I find the bus station at earby to be a odd one. It's basically one shelter at the end of a village on a turning circle

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I find the bus station at earby to be an odd one. It's basically one shelter at the end of a village on a turning circle

It’s definitely on the list of pathetic bus stations!

 

[Pinus contorta]

I disagree...to an extent and because I think it's a much more nuanced discussion as opposed to a binary yes/no

Do you need a bus station like Preston where all the services call in etc, irrespectively of frequency? No. Like, somewhere like Reading has a high proportion of local bus services at relatively high frequencies so the average wait time is relatively low for passengers and layover for terminating buses is minimised. Also, it benefits from having a centrally located station so all passengers have the benefit of facilities (toilets, cafes, etc) that are accessible even after 5pm

Compare that to a place like Salisbury that lost its bus station. The higher frequency/local services always used the nearby streets but most services used the bus station. They are now displaced to a range of streets and roadside stops with small shelters and limited space. A small bus station would probably make some sense there - perhaps using part of one of the car parks but not near the peripherally located station.

Preston is just a nuisance. A trek from the retail area. A trek from the railway station.

Please remind me where the Salisbury bus station used to be. Ive visited the place many times since 2002 but can't remember it.

 

[Open top 80]

Preston is just a nuisance. A trek from the retail area. A trek from the railway station.

Please remind me where the Salisbury bus station used to be. Ive visited the place many times since 2002 but can't remember it.

It was on Endless street just around the corner from the Market Square/Blue boar row apparently it's a block of flats now

 

[Simon75]

I've said elsewhere that I'm not a fan of Hanley - and I've been criticised for saying that.

However, access is via two rather narrow roads - and exit via one of these - which leads to congestion. Then you've got the fact that due to the layout of the station buses leaving one lot of stands have to turn across the path of buses leaving another lot, meaning exit has to be controlled by traffic lights leading to delays. It's not even completely undercover.

Also not enough layover space, with buses using Hinde Street car park about 10 minute walk. The outside cover is too big (which replaced a pub )

Down the road in Longton, apparently from the 22, First use Street stops not the bus station.
In Newcastle Under Lyme, the bus station is semi covered with no seats (using bars as a sort of seat)

 

[Statto]

Birkenhead bus station is quite odd as whilst all services call there going from Woodside or Liverpool, routes like 413/414/464/471/472/487 don't call heading to Woodside or Liverpool.

413/414 did call at Birkenhead bus station on the way to Woodside, but they were rerouted to avoid it because the recent regeneration works in the Town Centre were causing delays. Those works are now over but the 413/414 haven't been rerouted to serve Birkenhead bus station again towards Woodside.

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I disagree...to an extent and because I think it's a much more nuanced discussion as opposed to a binary yes/no

Do you need a bus station like Preston where all the services call in etc, irrespectively of frequency? No. Like, somewhere like Reading has a high proportion of local bus services at relatively high frequencies so the average wait time is relatively low for passengers and layover for terminating buses is minimised. Also, it benefits from having a centrally located station so all passengers have the benefit of facilities (toilets, cafes, etc) that are accessible even after 5pm

Compare that to a place like Salisbury that lost its bus station. The higher frequency/local services always used the nearby streets but most services used the bus station. They are now displaced to a range of streets and roadside stops with small shelters and limited space. A small bus station would probably make some sense there - perhaps using part of one of the car parks but not near the peripherally located station.

It's horses for courses.

It was definitely of a different time... People wandering across the apron, little thought to pedestrian waiting areas and refuges...

Have to applaud the developers - you wouldn't know it's the same place now.

Yep, prime example were bus stations are needed is Birmingham were there is no bus station in the City Centre but often chaos because of it & passengers have to hike to get to stops.

Manchester too were Piccadilly Gardens is far too small for the amount of buses that use it [8 stands but with what feels like about 50 odd routes that call there], that passengers have to hike well away from Piccadilly Gardens, for routes like the 192/203 that stop nearer to Piccadilly rail station, & other routes stop in the side streets the other side of Piccadilly Gardens.

 

[markymark2000]

Birkenhead bus station is quite odd as whilst all services call there going from Woodside or Liverpool, routes like 413/414/464/471/472/487 don't call heading to Woodside or Liverpool.

413/414 did call at Birkenhead bus station on the way to Woodside, but they were rerouted to avoid it because the recent regeneration works in the Town Centre were causing delays. Those works are now over but the 413/414 haven't been rerouted to serve Birkenhead bus station again towards Woodside.

It has always struck me as odd how difficult it is to get from Birkenhead Bus Station to Woodside but very easy to travel from Woodside to the bus station.

In the case of the 471/472 though, I think not stopping at Birkenhead Bus Station, while a missed opportunity for a core route, would probably be a waste as it risks flooding stand 7 (the Liverpool bound stand), there's also the 41/42 which serves the bus station, and at worst case, it's only a few minutes walk through The Pyramids.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

Yep, prime example were bus stations are needed is Birmingham were there is no bus station in the City Centre but often chaos because of it & passengers have to hike to get to stops.

Manchester too were Piccadilly Gardens is far too small for the amount of buses that use it [8 stands but with what feels like about 50 odd routes that call there], that passengers have to hike well away from Piccadilly Gardens, for routes like the 192/203 that stop nearer to Piccadilly rail station, & other routes stop in the side streets the other side of Piccadilly Gardens.

It is a problem in the very biggest cities like these that you could probably never get a bus station big enough to accomodate more than a small proportion of the services going from those city centres and for those two cities due to both the type of continuous conurbation and some historical changes there aren't a lot of clear lower frequency interurban services that would obviously benefit from giving passengers such a waiting environment (we could all probably come up with a, slightly different, list of services that should be running from a single central bus station but it would still leave a bit of hike to reach some of those services not included).

Neither is perfect, Manchester is slightly better as they do have a couple of small nodes/bus stations (such as Piccadilly Gardens & Shudehill) rather than Birmingham with separate groups of on street stops spread around the centre.

Leeds & Sheffield do manage because those county conurbations are more broken up (so Leeds and Sheffield have clearer boundaries to their neighbouring towns) but even there most local city services stay away from their bus stations. Leeds is a little cramped, but if it was better cared for would have all the facilities you need to wait for a bus, whilst Sheffield is underused as it is big enough to take more of the city services but it is a little remote from the either the core centre shops or the station meaning it gets missed as it offers little advantage to divert via it.

 

[IanMac]

I’m a regular user of Mansfield bus station and I find it quite spacious in comparison to many other bus stations. The end nearest the shop has lots of space and daylight with plenty of seats although I must admit that the waiting areas at the other end are not so good. The other bus station I use regularly is Nottingham Victoria and that is dark, draughty and cramped in comparison to Mansfield

My comment on Mansfield is based on queuing space being insufficient so that some queues stretch back into the general circulating area and prevent access to other platforms.

 

[izvor]

It’s definitely on the list of pathetic bus stations!

Perhaps a topic for another thread? I'd nominate Sevenoaks for that one and this - basically just 2 bus stops with no room for buses to pass/overtake and no stands. And what idiot designed a bus station, used by double-decks, with overhanging eaves?

 

[CN12 AWU]

I believe Hull needs redesigning for the electric buses apparently the E400 electrics and Streetdeck Electrics can barley get on the stands however the Yutong singles and Wright Sungle deck electrics are fine

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In relation to Birkenhead bus station above it's poorly designed and hardly nothing can serve stand 5 or 9 as there too small only little minibuses can serve either (E1 electric free bus used to serve 2, but can't remember 9 ever being in use)

Chester Interchange also suffers congestion issues due its design where buses for Blacon services park on the bend awaiting acsess to there stand

In South Wales both Caerphilly and Merthyr are fairly poorly designed

 

[markymark2000]

Chester Interchange also suffers congestion issues due its design where buses for Blacon services park on the bend awaiting acsess to there stand

Chester would be fine if Stagecoach didn't keep using it as a dumping ground, and if the council allocated stands better to avoid more clashes (which would probably also come with the logical outcome of improving the stand allocations so then buses to common destinations went from the same/closer stands, rather than the current stand allocation method of rolling a dice and hoping for the best).

It's not uncommon now for 5 or 6 Stagecoach buses to be all dumped in the middle as spares, breakdowns, buses with excessive layovers or silly bus boards which now involve dumping buses for nearly an hour when buses switch between local and interurban work.

The Blacon buses haven't parked on the bend for about a year (if not longer) now as there was a bump so signs got put up that you can't wait on the bend. Plus it was only ever an issue when buses stacked up, often due to poor regulation from the depot (who's staff were hell bent on not having to log a trip being dropped, even if dropping that trip would have meant a 5 minute layover then on time for the next run, they just wanted delays to spiral).

In South Wales both Caerphilly and Merthyr are fairly poorly designed

Caerphilly doesn't seem too bad other than a lack of circulation space. The issues there in my opinion is Stagecoach dumping buses all over the show, and then the regular passenger unfriendly situation with drivers refusing to wait for their relieving driver so get off, shut the door and leave existing passengers stuck on the bus and new passenger stood outside the closed door. And no one ever knows if/when the relieving driver will turn up. That's very much an operational issue for Stagecoach though rather than a poorly designed bus station.

Merthyr I've never had a problem. Just it's annoying if you are on a bus coming from the south as you have to plod around past the college.

 

[Statto]

In relation to Birkenhead bus station above it's poorly designed and hardly nothing can serve stand 5 or 9 as there too small only little minibuses can serve either (E1 electric free bus used to serve 2, but can't remember 9 ever being in use)

Chester Interchange also suffers congestion issues due its design where buses for Blacon services park on the bend awaiting acsess to there stand

Good point, & buses can be delayed getting to some stops at Birkenhead bus station if there is a que of buses waiting to get to the stands, & in particular stands 3, 6 & 7.

Chester bus interchange is a very similar design to Birkenhead, couple of stands (stands G & H) are located just after the turn which like you say can cause issues when buses to Blacon are waiting to get to the stands.

 

[route101]

Perhaps a topic for another thread? I'd nominate Sevenoaks for that one and this - basically just 2 bus stops with no room for buses to pass/overtake and no stands. And what idiot designed a bus station, used by double-decks, with overhanging eaves?

Funnily enough, I was there yesterday and was going to post. It like a side street with stand to split it.

 

[Mwanesh]

Worksop Bus Station is not that bad.Its finding it i have seen drivers missing the turning.Mansfield is fine its just geting out with a tri axle that i find challenging

 

[ian1944]

Dundee Trades Lane/Seagate is very much unimproved, but I quite like it. And the old-school caff fits right in. I doubt that any here were familiar with the old Altrincham BS, on the other side of the road from the present one, but Dundee reminds me of it. To be fair I'm not a regular user, so am not looking at the quality of seating, circulation space and degree of undercover.

 

[route101]

Redhill Bus Station seems small for number of services. Boarded a 205 to Croydon Centre at the wrong stop.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It's not uncommon now for 5 or 6 Stagecoach buses to be all dumped in the middle as spares, breakdowns, buses with excessive layovers or silly bus boards which now involve dumping buses for nearly an hour when buses switch between local and interurban work.

They don't have buses just sat for no reason and it's not as if they can easily run them back to the depot.

In South Wales both Caerphilly and Merthyr are fairly poorly designed

Caerphilly doesn't seem too bad other than a lack of circulation space. The issues there in my opinion is Stagecoach dumping buses all over the show, and then the regular passenger unfriendly situation with drivers refusing to wait for their relieving driver so get off, shut the door and leave existing passengers stuck on the bus and new passenger stood outside the closed door. And no one ever knows if/when the relieving driver will turn up. That's very much an operational issue for Stagecoach though rather than a poorly designed bus station.

For Merthyr, I don't really an issue with the design in relation to buses. Just that the building itself is quite tall and a bit oversized.

As regards Caerphilly, I've never experienced any problems with it. Decent location for the town and the station and seems appropriate for the scale of services in the town. As for drivers not waiting for their relief, as virtually all the routes (other than the 26, and the 50 at night/Sud) terminate there, it's not a great issue.

Dundee Trades Lane/Seagate is very much unimproved, but I quite like it. And the old-school caff fits right in. I doubt that any here were familiar with the old Altrincham BS, on the other side of the road from the present one, but Dundee reminds me of it. To be fair I'm not a regular user, so am not looking at the quality of seating, circulation space and degree of undercover.

It does have some old school ambience....but not as much as Perth (unless that's changed recently). That is a place that seems untouched by time!

Redhill Bus Station seems small for number of services. Boarded a 205 to Croydon Centre at the wrong stop.

Agreed - it really is a bit of a tight spot.


I've mentioned it before but Exeter is perhaps the epitome of a poorly designed bus station. It is simply too small and I was there on Saturday. My bus had to depart from an adjoining stand but, in fairness to the driver, he went out twice to ensure that no one was standing in the wrong place.

 

[Bristol LHS]

It does have some old school ambience....but not as much as Perth (unless that's changed recently). That is a place that seems untouched by time!

Perth Bus Station remained a 70s time warp when I was there just before Christmas. The letters from the signs saying ‘Bus Station In‘ and ‘Bus Station Out’ have gone, but the wood cladding beneath them was so faded that you can still read the signs as if they were still there

Perth could do with something better to replace that Station and the stands on Mill Street - there’s an opportunity to do something much better.

 

[Statto]

I've mentioned it before but Exeter is perhaps the epitome of a poorly designed bus station. It is simply too small and I was there on Saturday. My bus had to depart from an adjoining stand but, in fairness to the driver, he went out twice to ensure that no one was standing in the wrong place.

Warrington Interchange has that issue too, whilst the bus station is new with plenty of stands, it can have that situation with 2 buses wanting to go to the same stand at the same time (particularly if the buses are Arriva), so the bus behind goes to an adjacent stand instead.

 

[joieman]

The current iteration of St. Margaret's Bus Station effectively having been designed to cater for a National Express monopoly, it's struggling to accommodate the influx of Flixbus coach services.

Besides the stands for National Express coaches at the bottom end of the bus station, there is at the top end one stand theoretically dedicated to Flixbus services (as well as a handful of other minor scheduled coach services) and one for holiday coaches.

However, it's a regular occurrence for both of these stands to be occupied by Flixbus coaches, and on one occasion I saw one coach run a whole loop around the bus station before reversing into a layover stand at the top end of the bus station because there were no free coach stands at that end of the bus station.

Further to my previous remarks about St. Margaret's Bus Station, it appears that the situation is only getting worse with even more Flixbus departures vying for space in the bus station. Yesterday afternoon, I arrived at the bus station from Coalville just in time to witness FOUR Flixbuses trying to use the bus station at once.

Stand SA, used by holiday coaches as mentioned previously, was occupied by a Daish's coach; stand SB, the only bay in the bus station allocated to Flixbus, was being used by a service 087 Flixbus from Plymouth to Nottingham, while a service 079 Flixbus to Manchester was waiting in a layover stand behind, unable to obtain a bay for itself to begin its own journey from.

Within minutes of my arrival, a service 900 Flixbus from Nottingham to Gatwick and a terminating service 005 from London also turned up at the bus station: with no free bays for coaches at that end of the bus station, they were forced to pull into the next two bays, stand SC (used by the Arriva service 127) and stand SD (used by the Skyline Derby service) respectively. The two coaches left before any conflicting buses turned up, but after they left, the 079 coach then moved across into stand SC. Not very long afterwards, a service 127 bus turned up; after an irritated honk of the horn from that bus, the driver reluctantly drove it into stand SD instead.

These incidents played out over a space of about twenty minutes.

 

[markymark2000]

Further to my previous remarks about St. Margaret's Bus Station, it appears that the situation is only getting worse with even more Flixbus departures vying for space in the bus station. Yesterday afternoon, I arrived at the bus station from Coalville just in time to witness FOUR Flixbuses trying to use the bus station at once.

Stand SA, used by holiday coaches as mentioned previously, was occupied by a Daish's coach; stand SB, the only bay in the bus station allocated to Flixbus, was being used by a service 087 Flixbus from Plymouth to Nottingham, while a service 079 Flixbus to Manchester was waiting in a layover stand behind, unable to obtain a bay for itself to begin its own journey from.

Within minutes of my arrival, a service 900 Flixbus from Nottingham to Gatwick and a terminating service 005 from London also turned up at the bus station: with no free bays for coaches at that end of the bus station, they were forced to pull into the next two bays, stand SC (used by the Arriva service 127) and stand SD (used by the Skyline Derby service) respectively. The two coaches left before any conflicting buses turned up, but after they left, the 079 coach then moved across into stand SC. Not very long afterwards, a service 127 bus turned up; after an irritated honk of the horn from that bus, the driver reluctantly drove it into stand SD instead.

To be fair, it is a bit of a stupid situation that the local authority is giving a stand to coach holidays and day trips over scheduled intercity coaches over stand SA. It shows where their priorities lie. Surely it'd be so easy for the council to just extend the Gravel Street bus stop (Stop BD) back to the loading bay, and that would give around 45 metres of bus stand there for local buses to drop off, Flixbus top drop off, and irregular tour coaches to pick up. Then the bus station has 2 stands then available for Flixbus coaches to pick up.

That said, Flixbus scheduling also doesn't help matters here. They know they have 1 stand allocated, yet each day there are 5 instances where two buses are scheduled to depart at the exact same time. And that doesn't account for a bus doing the run quicker or slower than scheduled which quickly throws the plan out of the window.