UK switching to electric vehicles discussion

[jon0844]

Adds a whole new meaning to "spending a penny" !.

I agree charging has to be seen as something you leave the car to do while you get on with something else. It is a change in mentality from just going out to fill up to spending longer but killing more than one bird with the stone/time.

I certainly would want finding a place to charge to be easy and for it to be easy to start the charge process - I would not want to be worried about apps and other hoops.

As for cost. I am deeply averse to spending more than I have to. I really wish I would be able to charge from home. It is interesting how I could give and take from the grid. Paying 70-90p for something I could pay 20-50p for would really grate. Even 50p is 250% of 20p !.

As has been stated before, all chargers will let you pay by contactless.

Apps can give discounts, although I'd assume that autocharge will look up your car when you plug in and see you've got a subscription - then bill you a reduced amount. There are some very good deals out there now, for those who public charge a lot (and, yes, that might reduce the ability to charge anywhere but if you're saving 40p or more per kWh then you may seek out a specific charging location, just as you might prefer to go to Tesco for fuel to get Clubcard points).

There are some Tesla locations charging below 30p per kWh, which is more or less the standard variable rate unit cost for electricity for a home user. You may need to charge after 10pm though, or early in the morning, when demand is low. Obviously you have to consider your time as a cost. Is it worth going to charge at night to save some money?

As someone who has often filled up my car in the small hours on the way home from somewhere, I think I would do that wherever possible. Meanwhile, some people aren't so worried about price because if 95% of their charging is at home at 6.5 or 7p per kWh, paying a premium for 4 or 5 public chargers every year is so little that - sod it - why not pay for convenience?

 

[Harpers Tate]

....we are not there just yet.

I have been "there" for over 7 years. For my/my wife's combined normal driving pattern, since the beginning of August 2025, we have had cause to visit a "filling station" (i.e. roadside rapid charger) exactly 3 times and have covered about 3300 miles in that time. Total fuel cost, home and away, £88.59. I have yet to see any ICE diesel or petrol, that will average >1000 miles between necessary fillups or will go for >3000 miles for under £90.

 

[jon0844]

One of the ideal places is a supermarket. They often have chargers, the food/drinks are cheaper than motorway services and there are toilets. Much easier to divert to one now than it was with sat-nav.

McRubbish can also be handy though I've not seen chargers at one yet, I bet there will be in due course.

Many McDonald's have rapid chargers (Ionity or Instavolt I think?), but they're not super cheap (but neither is their food these days).

Sainsbury's have their very own charging network now, rather than leasing spaces to a third party. You get Nectar points and assuming you take 30-40 minutes to shop, you may very well be full when you leave.

They seem popular, so the biggest problem is having them in use when you arrive - but I assume Sainsbury's and others will see all the usage data and build more to meet demand. It's both a revenue stream, and also a way to encourage people to come to your store, and spend a bit more time there when you do.

Some garden centres are also fitting them for the same reason; stop off there for some nice farm fresh food for lunch and give your car a boost at the same time.

All leisure parks should be installing them too. They could go for nice simple, cheap, 7kW ones, as going for a meal, then bowling or catching a movie, means potentially being on site for 3-4 hours, which will pump a decent amount of energy into a car.

Eventually, but I predict that EVs won't outnumber petrol cars until at least the late 2030s (and even that seems slightly ambitious)

From a very non-scientific survey that I do from time to time when driving, I'd say about 5% of cars I pass on local trips are EVs. I may miss a couple as early Tesla and Nissan Leafs etc haven't changed their plates for the ones with the green strip. When I was in a car park at the airport recently, it was probably nearer 10%.

I don't think it's going to be late 2030s. I think the tipping point will be early 2030s.

If people are thinking of changing car in the near future, with the goings on in the middle east and the chance of a rush on petrol stations as prices surge, you may see many more people taking a punt on an EV even if they were holding off.

The Glynneath one has - I used it while waiting for the home charger to be installed.

A lot of hotels have chargers in the car park if staying away.

If travelling, I would see the sense in convenience rather than over lengthening the journey so fast chargers would the target. The car has a charger map on the screen, so finding a fast one is never too hard. A neat feature of maps is they show the number of chargers available as well as the number of chargers at a location so you can estimate whether the last one will be taken before you get there.

Yes, it's very nice to see how many chargers are at a location, plus how many are working and not in use. If you use certain in-car apps (Android Auto or Apple CarPlay) then you can even be redirected to another location automatically. Just follow the map and that's it.

 

[Energy]

Many McDonald's have rapid chargers (Ionity or Instavolt I think?), but they're not super cheap (but neither is their food these days).

Yep, Instavolt. Previously their 125kW (well shared between two units...) Chargepoint units, but newer sites are 120/160kW (not shared) BYD units.

Sainsbury's have their very own charging network now, rather than leasing spaces to a third party. You get Nectar points and assuming you take 30-40 minutes to shop, you may very well be full when you leave.

They seem popular, so the biggest problem is having them in use when you arrive - but I assume Sainsbury's and others will see all the usage data and build more to meet demand. It's both a revenue stream, and also a way to encourage people to come to your store, and spend a bit more time there when you do.

Sainsbury's tends to be particularly popular with commercial fleet drivers. Usually, the company pays for charging, and the driver pays for their lunch, so many drivers will pick somewhere with a cheap lunch offering regardless of the cost of charging.

 

[bspahh]

As has been stated before, all chargers will let you pay by contactless.

All chargers that are 8kW or faster will let you pay by contactless. To use the 7kW Pod Point chargers at the University of Bath, you need the Pod Point app.

Faster chargers can also give you penalty fees if you don't move off when the charging has finished. The 25-50kW ChargePlace Scotland ones have a limit of 45 minutes, with 10 minutes grace periood, followed by an overstay fee of £1 a minute.

 

[Noddy]

don't move off when the charging has finished. The 25-50kW ChargePlace Scotland ones have a limit of 45 minutes, with 10 minutes grace periood, followed by an overstay fee of £1 a minute.

That applies to the Borders Council area (ChargePlace Scotland don’t own their chargers, the local council does and they set the pricing), and AFAICT it doesn’t apply if you pay via Electroverse.

Although I would still move my car anyway so someone else can use it because after 45 minutes on a 50kw DC charger it’ll likely be 3/4 full anyway. If I wanted to stay longer I’d leave it on the AC chargers which doesn’t have an overstay fee.

 

[bspahh]

That applies to the Borders Council area (ChargePlace Scotland don’t own their chargers, the local council does and they set the pricing), and AFAICT it doesn’t apply if you pay via Electroverse.

Although I would still move my car anyway so someone else can use it because after 45 minutes on a 50kw DC charger it’ll likely be 3/4 full anyway. If I wanted to stay longer I’d leave it on the AC chargers which doesn’t have an overstay fee.

I was at Mallaig in September, and wanted to charge my car whilst I had dinner. A slow charger wouldn't have added much charge, so I used a 50kW. 40 minutes after parking, I checked how did a google search to see how long I could leave it for, and found a hit that talked about the 45 minute limit. I assumed they would all be the same. I left sharpish to move my car.

https://chargeplacescotland.org/charge-point-tariffs/ lists a load of different pricing schemes for individual chargers, although it doesn't have the 50kW ones for Mallaig, so perhaps its out of date.

 

[Topological]

All chargers that are 8kW or faster will let you pay by contactless. To use the 7kW Pod Point chargers at the University of Bath, you need the Pod Point app.

Faster chargers can also give you penalty fees if you don't move off when the charging has finished. The 25-50kW ChargePlace Scotland ones have a limit of 45 minutes, with 10 minutes grace periood, followed by an overstay fee of £1 a minute.

Harsh

I know other free universities.

Have not tested University of Manchester yet as I usually take the diesel and only drive the first hour of the trip to Pontypool.

 

[MotCO]

What on earth are you both blathering on about? The electric motor has been around for over a century. Lithium batteries are very mature technology.
In fact the very first cars were EVs, using lead acid batteries.

I know the electric motor has been around for ages, but the development of it and battery technology has only been around for probably 20 - 30 years or so. Contrast that with the development time, research and development of the ICE over the last 120 years. Had battery technology had the same time and investment as ICE, then we would be in a different position - the EV platform would have been mature with only minor tweaking each year. As it is, the EV is still being developed, and I would rather buy the mature product with better residual values than a product still improving by substantial amounts each year.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Well there was discussion around addressing being able to get places without a car, but the nutters thought 15 minute cities were a conspiracy to trap them rather than a convenience so you don't need to drive to the doctors/shops/school.

I remember that. That reaction was so knee jerk.

I know the electric motor has been around for ages, but the development of it and battery technology has only been around for probably 20 - 30 years or so. Contrast that with the development time, research and development of the ICE over the last 120 years. Had battery technology had the same time and investment as ICE, then we would be in a different position - the EV platform would have been mature with only minor tweaking each year. As it is, the EV is still being developed, and I would rather buy the mature product with better residual values than a product still improving by substantial amounts each year.

I agree. It is how it is all put together and implemented as an EV that is new. I think the battery technology is still maturing so still a very recent thing. I am also aware that charging capabilities are still evolving.

Just occurred to me. Has Trump done his mate Elon a favour by screwing up the world oil supply (tongue in cheek but maybe not).

 

[Noddy]

I know the electric motor has been around for ages, but the development of it

You do realise that the electric motor was first demonstrated by Micheal Faraday in 1821 and is used in everything from small wrist watches to huge marine motors?

 

[Bald Rick]

. It has taken over 100 years to get petrol engines to their current level of efficiency and cleanliness

I think you are missing the point. I don't want to be a guinea pig - I would rather buy the final product, or almost final, rather than just the work in progress. And we are not there just yet.

Presumably you waited until very recently to buy your first petrol engine vehicle then? The rate of development in the last 30 years there has been quite significant.

From a very non-scientific survey that I do from time to time when driving, I'd say about 5% of cars I pass on local trips are EVs.

Nearer 10% on this side of Herts, and seemingly nearer 20% on Sundays. (Also a very non-scientific survey).

There’s as near as makes no difference 2m BEVs on our roads now, of 36m total, so 5.6%, and growing about 1.5% a year currently, likely to lift to 2% a year within 2 years. Clearly there will be local and regional variation in the proportion on the roads.

 

[thejuggler]

I have been "there" for over 7 years. For my/my wife's combined normal driving pattern, since the beginning of August 2025, we have had cause to visit a "filling station" (i.e. roadside rapid charger) exactly 3 times and have covered about 3300 miles in that time. Total fuel cost, home and away, £88.59. I have yet to see any ICE diesel or petrol, that will average >1000 miles between necessary fillups or will go for >3000 miles for under £90.

What about total cost of ownership?

 

[MotCO]

Presumably you waited until very recently to buy your first petrol engine vehicle then? The rate of development in the last 30 years there has been quite significant.

Yes, I didn't buy my first car until the 1980s. By which time it had been developed over 80 years, and, in fairness, there was no alternative method of propulsion. Now we have a choice, and some people are opting for new developing technologies, and some opt for mature technologies, depending on their circumstances.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Mar 2026 ==

You do realise that the electric motor was first demonstrated by Micheal Faraday in 1821 and is used in everything from small wrist watches to huge marine motors?

But it is the battery technology that is still evolving. A watch does not have to carry something weighing 2 tons over a distance of 200 - 300 miles. Nor does it have thermal management systems to improve its efficiency, which is a fairly recent development (last 20 years or so).

 

[Noddy]

Yes, I didn't buy my first car until the 1980s. By which time it had been developed over 80 years, and, in fairness, there was no alternative method of propulsion. Now we have a choice, and some people are opting for new developing technologies, and some opt for mature technologies, depending on their circumstances.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Mar 2026 ==


But it is the battery technology that is still evolving. A watch does not have to carry something weighing 2 tons over a distance of 200 - 300 miles. Nor does it have thermal management systems to improve its efficiency, which is a fairly recent development (last 20 years or so).

Electric motors have been used to move trains and ships hundreds of miles everyday for decades (over 100 years in the case of railways and they are the primary method of propulsion on virtually every train on the UK network). The lithium ion battery was invented over 100 years ago and has been in widespread use in many applications for 50 years or more. The issue with thermal technology in EVs was that the Leaf and AIUI very early Zoe’s didn’t have active thermal cooling, presumably as a cost and space saving measure for these cheaper cars, or perhaps they thought they were reincarnating the spirit of VW. The technology was there and Teslas of the same era don’t have any issues. Every other EV including the current generation Leaf has had active thermal management. It’s not ‘evolving’, it’s a standard feature, just like the cooling system on an ICE vehicle but far less complicated because it’s dealing with much less heat generation.

The only thing that is changing rapidly is the price of Lithium ion batteries, which is not a technological development. That can’t go on forever, and although the percentage falls are still relatively dramatic each year, in absolute terms the falls are much less significant than five or ten years ago

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes, I didn't buy my first car until the 1980s.

Neither did I, but that wasns’t because I was waiting for technology to develop. It was because I turned 17.

As I found out when waiting to buy my first VCR, if you wait for the technology to develop a but more you end up missing out.

 

[jon0844]

If you look at home storage batteries, you can really see how cheap batteries have become. You can get a 16kWh Fogstar battery for as little as £2000. That's more than the average daily usage for a 3 or 4 bed house (we use around 10-11kWh a day in a 3-bed). 32 and 64kWh are even cheaper per watt, and that's a retail price with the exterior casing, BMS and shipping costs included (and they are heavy!).

Imagine what car makers are paying for their batteries now!

 

[Bald Rick]

Imagine what car makers are paying for their batteries now!

and train makers

 

[jon0844]

and train makers

Quite. Battery tech is now mature enough (and that doesn't mean it isn't still improving - but a lot of improvements aren't just about next-generation batteries, rather economies of scale to bring production costs down) that it should have a massive impact on the railway.

Electrification is expensive and slow, but batteries on a train bridges the gap between electrified sections and also offers a backup if the power fails. If there's a situation where the power is turned off and a train can't move due to congestion, the onboard systems can remain powered.

 

[Harpers Tate]

What about total cost of ownership?

Car Tax: assume the same as an ICE. (was nil until April 2025, now the same as a basic ICE so presume no difference).

Tyres: No difference. They wear at no different a rate than any ICE I had previously and are not special in any way therefore they cost the same.

Fuel: probably about 1/10 the cost of petrol/diesel on average - estimate. I'm not citing my total fuel cost for the ~50k miles as a comparison as that is distorted by the availability of free power during the early period of ownership so it wouldn't be valid. But just for the record 49822 miles have cost £1037.27.

Servicing: The car is over 6 years old and has had 6 main dealer annual services. Each of these carries with it 12 months "AA" at home/recovery membership (representative value ~£600). Including that and MOTs as required £923.88 total. Say £323 net of "AA" costs.

Depreciation: Probably about £20k but bear in mind that this was bought new. Had I bought, say, a 2-year old car two years later I suspect that would be a very different number, but I can't offer any kind of estimate. I doubt this is in a different ballpark to any car of similar value and history but I have no basis to confirm this.

I don't think I've missed anything here. And just to confirm - in all discernible ways, the car is as good (to drive, range, etc.) as when new.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Electric motors have been used to move trains and ships hundreds of miles everyday for decades (over 100 years in the case of railways and they are the primary method of propulsion on virtually every train on the UK network). The lithium ion battery was invented over 100 years ago and has been in widespread use in many applications for 50 years or more. The issue with thermal technology in EVs was that the Leaf and AIUI very early Zoe’s didn’t have active thermal cooling, presumably as a cost and space saving measure for these cheaper cars, or perhaps they thought they were reincarnating the spirit of VW. The technology was there and Teslas of the same era don’t have any issues. Every other EV including the current generation Leaf has had active thermal management. It’s not ‘evolving’, it’s a standard feature, just like the cooling system on an ICE vehicle but far less complicated because it’s dealing with much less heat generation.

The only thing that is changing rapidly is the price of Lithium ion batteries, which is not a technological development. That can’t go on forever, and although the percentage falls are still relatively dramatic each year, in absolute terms the falls are much less significant than five or ten years ago

I am not too bothered about the electric motor. Only caveat is it is being used for acceleration and braking (regeneration) and more importantly perhaps is its application in a car - maybe a more hostile environment than previous applications. But overall would not expect too many surprises now, after 20 years or so.

Battery - this has obviously been very different. Since early cars did not have proper battery management this serves as a warning to me. Things have been improved BUT given certain manufacturers did not cover battery cooling early on when others did that makes me very cautious (cynical).

Charging. Needs to be more reassuring. But that will evolve with time. Especially as ICE filling stations become scarcer a tipping point will also be reached.

I think a lot of progress has already been made BUT I am not rushing in. Particularly as I would be buying a ten plus year old car I want to be well clear of the risks made over early design Nissan Leafs and suchlike.

I would like to see the cost of replacing/repairing a battery being a lot less than it has been. Last time I looked a replacement battery cost more than a ten or so year old car.

Given the mileage I do (very low) the actual running costs are probably not a significant factor. I could argue that me hanging on to an old ICE is possibly saving the carbon footprint of a new EV. I use public transport where I can.

Obviously a higher mileage car user will have different criteria and I can only see the issues with batteries (reliability and replacement cost) being something to consider and watch improve.

 

[jon0844]

I am not too bothered about the electric motor. Only caveat is it is being used for acceleration and braking (regeneration) and more importantly perhaps is its application in a car - maybe a more hostile environment than previous applications. But overall would not expect too many surprises now, after 20 years or so.

Battery - this has obviously been very different. Since early cars did not have proper battery management this serves as a warning to me. Things have been improved BUT given certain manufacturers did not cover battery cooling early on when others did that makes me very cautious (cynical).

Charging. Needs to be more reassuring. But that will evolve with time. Especially as ICE filling stations become scarcer a tipping point will also be reached.

I think a lot of progress has already been made BUT I am not rushing in. Particularly as I would be buying a ten plus year old car I want to be well clear of the risks made over early design Nissan Leafs and suchlike.

I would like to see the cost of replacing/repairing a battery being a lot less than it has been. Last time I looked a replacement battery cost more than a ten or so year old car.

Given the mileage I do (very low) the actual running costs are probably not a significant factor. I could argue that me hanging on to an old ICE is possibly saving the carbon footprint of a new EV. I use public transport where I can.

Obviously a higher mileage car user will have different criteria and I can only see the issues with batteries (reliability and replacement cost) being something to consider and watch improve.

Why do you care about the cost of replacing a battery on a car? You won't be replacing it. They are showing themselves to be capable of 300,000-400,000 miles. Even the Leaf batteries, without proper battery cooling, have generally fared a lot better than expected. Rapid charging isn't killing batteries, and charging is pretty reliable with sites having to offer around 99% uptime these days.

Of course if you were going to get a replacement battery for a 10, 15 or 20 year old EV, I'm 99.99% sure you wouldn't be buying a new one. You'd get a refurbished one, or perhaps just get the one you had repaired. They can be serviced contrary to popular belief. They're also considerably easier to remove than an engine (which you also wouldn't replace with a brand new one on an old car).

The car industry is now working on Euro 7 for emissions, so does this mean people should hold off buying a petrol or diesel car? They're still being improved upon, so doesn't this serve as a warning also?

 

[MotCO]

The car industry is now working on Euro 7 for emissions, so does this mean people should hold off buying a petrol or diesel car? They're still being improved upon, so doesn't this serve as a warning also?

The difference is that changes to ICE engines is mostly to do with emissions, which doesn't directly affect owners. (it may do way in the future if ULEZ zones only admit Euro 7 engines, but it won't affect today's buyers.) Improvements to EV cars usually extends the range they can travel, which can have a direct result on owners,or even potential owners if the EV now fits their criteria for range. It could make the difference between a potential owner opting for an EV rather than ICE.

 

[jon0844]

The difference is that changes to ICE engines is mostly to do with emissions, which doesn't directly affect owners. (it may do way in the future if ULEZ zones only admit Euro 7 engines, but it won't affect today's buyers.) Improvements to EV cars usually extends the range they can travel, which can have a direct result on owners,or even potential owners if the EV now fits their criteria for range. It could make the difference between a potential owner opting for an EV rather than ICE.

My point was tech is advancing all the time. A newer ICE engine may be more efficient (longer range) just like a newer EV. Hence, if you are always going to wait then you'll end up with nothing at all.

I think we've long established that range isn't really an issue for most people.

 

[Mawkie]

I think we've long established that range isn't really an issue for most people.

As Dave Takes It On from YouTube says, nobody was crying out for larger petrol tanks to give them 1000 miles without refuelling.

 

[bspahh]

The difference is that changes to ICE engines is mostly to do with emissions, which doesn't directly affect owners. (it may do way in the future if ULEZ zones only admit Euro 7 engines, but it won't affect today's buyers.) Improvements to EV cars usually extends the range they can travel, which can have a direct result on owners,or even potential owners if the EV now fits their criteria for range. It could make the difference between a potential owner opting for an EV rather than ICE.

The Euro 7 emission standards have the same thresholds for car engine emissions as in Euro 6. The difference is a regulation on particulates from brakes. This is set to PM10 (particles smaller than 10 micrometers in diameter) below 0.003 mg/km for electric cars, and diesel/petrol cars after 2035, with a threshold of 0.007 for diesel and petrol cars before then.

Electric cars can use regenerative braking a lot of the time, which won't make particulates, so the lower threshold should be fine.

This BBC News article says:

In many major cities, brake wear is now the biggest source of non-exhaust emissions from vehicles, according to EIT Urban Mobility, external - an EU-supported organisation focused on improving urban transport.
Yet "there seems to be limited awareness of this pollution," says its director of innovation, Adriana Diaz.
Brake dust contains tiny bits of metal, black carbon and other particles that enter the air due to friction and the wearing away of braking materials.
There are even some studies which suggest brake dust is even more harmful, external to the lungs than diesel exhaust.
Electric vehicles produce no exhaust emissions and have much less brake wear. Regenerative braking in EVs, which recharges the battery, does not involve friction. However, even EVs with regenerative braking also incorporate some friction braking.
Now the auto industry is poised to properly tackle brake emissions for the first time as the European Union introduces the world's first rules limiting the level of brake emissions next year.
Under the new Euro 7 regulations, brake emissions of PM10 (particles of less than 10 micrometres in diameter) from new vehicles will be limited to 3–11 mg/km, depending on the vehicle type.

At the moment, a typical car with a grey cast iron brake disc and low-steel brake pads – a common combination in Europe – emits about 8.8 mg/km of PM10, according to EIT Urban Mobility.

The EU predicts that by 2035, the regulations will reduce, external the particles emitted from the brakes of cars and vans by 27%.

Other regions are likely to follow suit. "China will be the next," says Artur García, an aftermarket braking engineering manager for the auto parts maker DRiV (part of Tenneco).

He's expecting so-called China 7 regulations to be announced by the end of 2025, and to focus more on PM2.5 (particles even tinier than PM10).

Euro 7 is starting with brake emissions before moving onto other types of non-exhaust emissions.

It's simpler to measure brake emissions than other types of non-exhaust emissions "because you can isolate the braking system in labs", explains François Cuenot, the secretary of the Working Party on Pollution and Energy, a UN organisation that sets standards for measuring vehicle emissions.

Compared to brakes, it's much more difficult to separate out the emissions from tyres and roads, which interact with each other in complex ways.

 

[DelW]

As Dave Takes It On from YouTube says, nobody was crying out for larger petrol tanks to give them 1000 miles without refuelling.

Though that is just about feasible. I had a 2008 diesel Mondeo with a 70 litre tank (actually just over, as my maximum recorded fill was 70.57 litres). It routinely achieved low to mid 50s mpg, and my longest distance between fills was 826 miles (needing 70.3 litres to refill).

But on at least one occasion, when filling up on a long run with gentle driving, the predicted range when leaving the filling station was "999", as the display only had three digits ...

 

[jon0844]

It's fine to have a huge fuel tank so you can wait ages to fill up, but you are absolutely 100% stopping at some point for something else during that 826 miles (or longer if you drove at the most economic way possible).

Because you have to go to a petrol station, and you may well need to go to a particular one (either for price reasons, or to use a particular charge card) which isn't a particularly great experience, I get why people may want to go as infrequently as possible. I used to wait until low, although in the current climate there's a good chance people will be seeking to fill up early and regularly in case prices rise further, or there's even another shortage (which may well happen because people panic).

For an EV, most people are charging at home most of the time. If you then public charge when you take a break (and you can use apps to pick the location based on price and availability, as well as having facilities like a toilet or shop) then it's not the same as having to stop for a break and THEN go get petrol.

For me, I don't miss petrol stations one bit.

 

[styles]

Though that is just about feasible. I had a 2008 diesel Mondeo with a 70 litre tank (actually just over, as my maximum recorded fill was 70.57 litres). It routinely achieved low to mid 50s mpg, and my longest distance between fills was 826 miles (needing 70.3 litres to refill).

But on at least one occasion, when filling up on a long run with gentle driving, the predicted range when leaving the filling station was "999", as the display only had three digits ...

Those mk3/mk4 Mondeos were fantastic. Huge boot space, excellent fuel economy, large tanks, handled well.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For me, I don't miss petrol stations one bit.

I'd still stop at them in an EV for convenience purchases. They are handy for that.

Can't say I have a strong view on them to be honest.