Short faring and using a 16-17 discount when not entitled to it

[LD27]

Hi all, hoping someone can help

For several months, I've been purchasing tickets using the 16–17 discount and selected a starting station closer to my destination than where my journey actually began. I was caught in December at Waterloo station by purchasing a 16–17 ticket from Vauxhall to Waterloo to exit the station and I actually started in Wimbledon.
I've felt awful about it since and have been buying the correct tickets ever since. Today I received an email saying I was given a report for prosecution and that they've already looked into my Trainline history.

They are still investigating the thing and asking me to reply within 7 days with my name and address etc.
I'm wondering what would happen from here cause this sounds very very serious and I am really stressed about this and I want to avoid court or anything on my record.

I want to do everything I can to settle this out of court - should I mention the railcard issue and the historical journeys in my first reply, or wait for them to bring it up?

Any advice would be really appreciated.
Thank you so much.

View attachment 199680

 

[MarlowDonkey]

I want to do everything I can to settle this out of court - should I mention the railcard issue and the historical journeys in my first reply, or wait for them to bring it up?

The usual advice is to reply truthfully to questions they ask, but don't volunteer potentially incriminating evidence. They have got you anyway for short faring and would have looked at your purchasing history to see that it's repeated. Assuming they offer an out of court settlement, it would be for the full Anytime Single price for the assumed journeys made plus an administration fee. They don't give discounts for possession of railcards.

 

[LD27]

Sorry it's not discount. I bought the train tickets on Trainline and there's 16-17 years old price which is cheaper so I bought with that

 

[AlterEgo]

Sorry it's not discount. I bought the train tickets on Trainline and there's 16-17 years old price which is cheaper so I bought with that

Where have you been travelling from and to? And how many times?

 

[LD27]

Sometimes is from Mitcham Junction to Victoria, and I would buy from Clapham Junction to Victoria. I got caught in Waterloo starting from Wimbledon. I believe they have checked my journey history mentioned in the letter. I don't remember how many times in total but have been a few months before I got caught...

 

[Horizon22]

So to confirm have you been both:

• Buying short tickets?
• Using a 16-17 discount which you are not entitled to?

 

[LD27]

So to confirm have you been both:

• Buying short tickets?
• Using a 16-17 discount which you are not entitled to?

yes I did both

 

[Sun Chariot]

Hello @LD27

Were all your short-fared tickets and your 16-17 discounted-rate tickets bought digitally? If not all, what did you use (e.g. paper ticket bought from station machine)?

The 16-17 ticket price you used, is for holders of 16-17 years old Railcard.
Did you hold a valid 16-17 years old Railcard, for all dates you travelled? Or for some? Or none?

I think you'll need to dedicate some of your time to go back through your historical digital ticket purchases:
a)) your digital ticket-app buying history
and, if needed:
b) your bank account / payment card,
in order to fihd exactly how many of your journeys you short-fared AND how many of your 16-17 rate tickets you had used without accompanying valid 16-17 years old Railcard.

 

[LD27]

I'll do my best but I'm not sure I'll have a complete record. What should I do with that information once I've gathered it? does the outcome depend on the total amount involved? Thank you

Thank you, yes I bought all tickets digitally through Trainline. aND I did not hold a valid 16-17 Railcard

 

[Sun Chariot]

Try to get as complete a list as you can. That serves as your "master list" so that:

1) at the point you receive the TOC's own list, of the journeys they think you didn't have a valid ticket for, you'll then be able to cross reference their list to your "master list" to:
a) see if they've listed journey(s) which you can prove you did use a valid ticket - you can show your evidence to the TOC.
b) see which (if any) of your "fare avoidance" journeys are not on the TOCs list. Keep note of those - and I suggest you don't tell the TOC about journeys they have not asked.you about.

2) you have a cross-referenced list of your short-fared and/or unauthorised use of the 16-17 Railcard discount. These are the journeys the TOC has flagged to you and they are on your "master list".
For all of these, use National Rail or TOC website / app to find the cost of full-fare Anytime Single ticket - for each and every journey.
Add those prices up. It gives you an idea how much the TOC settlement offer may be. TOC might add an admin charge on top.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all, hoping someone can help

For several months, I've been purchasing tickets using the 16–17 discount and selected a starting station closer to my destination than where my journey actually began. I was caught in December at Waterloo station by purchasing a 16–17 ticket from Vauxhall to Waterloo to exit the station and I actually started in Wimbledon.
I've felt awful about it since and have been buying the correct tickets ever since. Today I received an email saying I was given a report for prosecution and that they've already looked into my Trainline history.

They are still investigating the thing and asking me to reply within 7 days with my name and address etc.
I'm wondering what would happen from here cause this sounds very very serious and I am really stressed about this and I want to avoid court or anything on my record.

I want to do everything I can to settle this out of court - should I mention the railcard issue and the historical journeys in my first reply, or wait for them to bring it up?

Any advice would be really appreciated.
Thank you so much.

View attachment 199680

essentially you need to reply to them - demonstrate you understand what you did was wrong, apologise for your actions in not paying the correct fare, and ask them if they would be prepared to let you settle the matter out of court by paying what you owe, instead of them prosecuting you in court for this.

They will want some money, you will avoid a criminal record.

 

[Haywain]

a) see if they've listed journey(s) which you can prove you did use a valid ticket - you can show your evidence to the TOC.

If necessary. I don't think we've seen a case where evidence of anything other than owning a railcard has been requested.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all, hoping someone can help

I was caught in December at Waterloo station from Vauxhall to Waterloo to exit the station and I actually started in Wimbledon.
I've felt awful about it since and have been buying the correct tickets ever since. Today I received an email saying I was given a report for prosecution and that they've already looked into my Trainline history.

They are still investigating the thing and asking me to reply within 7 days with my name and address etc.
I'm wondering what would happen from here cause this sounds very very serious and I am really stressed about this and I want to avoid court or anything on my record.

I want to do everything I can to settle this out of court - should I mention the railcard issue and the historical journeys in my first reply, or wait for them to bring it up?

Any advice would be really appreciated.
Thank you so much.

In terms of you responding to them I can see others have posted good advice - in case you have not seen it before some regular advice that is often given here is below - note the section I have put in bold in case that helps you.


Firstly, you committed a criminal offence by travelling with an invalid ticket and railway companies are entitled to prosecute you in the Magistrates Court if they want to. The good news is they will normally offer an out of court settlement to people who co-operate with them and who haven't come to their attention before.

Next, what happens is the railway company will write to you. The letter will go to the address that you gave them / on any of your ID they checked so you need to be able to access hard copy post at that address as they often send things that way (but also check e-mail and spam). It is extremely important that you reply, and you'll only have a limited time to do so (often 14 days from the date on their communication).

When you receive the letter post a redacted copy of it in this thread, along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you. You'll find lots of example letters you can use in this section of the forum but the reply basically needs to mention:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident and will not do this again
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the railway company’s administrative costs in dealing with the matter

The railway will probably offer you an out of court settlement. Expect to have to pay the cost of the fare for the journey you made at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid ticket you purchased. In addition they will charge an admin fee, typically £150. They will also audit your online ticket purchase history and if this shows you've purchased other tickets that were not valid (eg railcard discounted tickets when you did not have a valid railcard, or tickets for only part of the journey, or tickets bought after boarding the train you travelled on ) they will probably factor the cost of these journeys into the settlement offer. Depending on how many journeys you've made over the period concerned this could end up being expensive.

Settlements usually have to be paid in full within a few days of them being offered so if money is tight you might want to think about how you will raise the sum required at short notice.