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Trivia: UK bus stations not fit for purpose

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Statto

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. . .Walsall is another of my black spots, two separate bus stations separated by an old pedestrianised shopping street that's long past it's prime – why not demolish the Saddlers Centre and Park Street and develop a larger one that combines St. Paul's and Bradford Place into one conveniently placed bus/rail interchange?
Walsall is quite dangerous too, there have been a few incidents over the years since it opened, the most serious being when an Arriva bus being driven the wrong way down a one way street, collided with a few other vehicles including a double decker bus, killing one person & injuring another.
 
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Dwarfer1979

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Unless things have changed I would nominate St. Ives, (Cornwall), buses reversing onto the main rd.
Last time I was there they were just using it to turn around with buses picking up on the roadside outside. I have never seen buses reverse out onto the road, it was always reverse into the Malakoff from the road (or sometimes swing in and reverse across the apron if the turning circle was good enough) and depart forwards - if for no other reason than the passenger waiting area was to one side and passengers walked out over the apron from the road end of the site so buses reversing in means they are facing the right way for passengers to approach safer and quicker.
 
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Last time I was there they were just using it to turn around with buses picking up on the roadside outside. I have never seen buses reverse out onto the road, it was always reverse into the Malakoff from the road (or sometimes swing in and reverse across the apron if the turning circle was good enough) and depart forwards - if for no other reason than the passenger waiting area was to one side and passengers walked out over the apron from the road end of the site so buses reversing in means they are facing the right way for passengers to approach safer and quicker.
When I was there in 2022 buses were driving in then reversing within the bus station until the back of the vehicle was next to the waiting room and the front pointing out towards the road.
Passengers were held behind queuing barriers in and around the waiting room until the bus had stopped, at which point staff lowered the barrier and allowed them to board. The bus then drove out forwards.
I understand that nowadays the station is effectively just a turning circle, the waiting area is closed and as @Dwarfer1979 says buses pick up at roadside stops nearby.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Oversized - Batley (which I know I've mentioned before),
Batley is too big for the level of service it gets now, but was perfectly sized for the level of service it got when built. It is rather overbuilt of course, but the same could be said for several other of the smaller stations in West Yorkshire. This wouldn't be so bad if the Combined Authority had the budget to properly staff them, and was a bit more selective about who they leased the retail units to. Batley and others now have shuttered retail units that just make the places look abandoned. Even when they were occupied the quality of tenants at the various units was rather sketchy IMO.
Huddersfield: excellent.
It's good, but it does have a number of issues. During the daytime it's far too crowded because there isn't enough seating at each stand, the frequent and poorly-worded safety announcements are far too loud (I'd rather listen to "see it, say it, sorted" on a loop!), and once it quietens down after 6pm the gangs of feral youths become quite intimidating. The multi-storey car park on top is ugly and grim to use, and now can only be accessed by the central staircase which doubles as the "free" bus station toilets. It's also right at the top edge of the town centre, as the main commercial core of the centre has migrated south over the years towards Kingsgate. Some stands get a handful of buses a day, while others are double-booked on the hour or the half-hour.

It looks better than it is because you could compare it to Wakefield, which was nice and spacious when it first opened until Arriva in their infinite wisdom decided to install a load of market stalls selling tat and poor quality confectionery- which swallows up most of the circulation space. Wakefield's anti-social behaviour issues also make Huddersfield seem like the champagne bar at St Pancras by comparison!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Batley is too big for the level of service it gets now, but was perfectly sized for the level of service it got when built. It is rather overbuilt of course, but the same could be said for several other of the smaller stations in West Yorkshire. This wouldn't be so bad if the Combined Authority had the budget to properly staff them, and was a bit more selective about who they leased the retail units to. Batley and others now have shuttered retail units that just make the places look abandoned. Even when they were occupied the quality of tenants at the various units was rather sketchy IMO.
I know that services in Batley have declined and the one way system doesn't help it either. And yes, there's a few others like Cleckheaton that have the same issue - the retail units are shuttered, the footfall isn't great because of location, they are a magnet for youths, and the upkeep for maintenance and security is more than the budget can bear (as I mentioned about capital grants vs. revenue budgets).

It's good, but it does have a number of issues. During the daytime it's far too crowded because there isn't enough seating at each stand, the frequent and poorly-worded safety announcements are far too loud (I'd rather listen to "see it, say it, sorted" on a loop!), and once it quietens down after 6pm the gangs of feral youths become quite intimidating. The multi-storey car park on top is ugly and grim to use, and now can only be accessed by the central staircase which doubles as the "free" bus station toilets. It's also right at the top edge of the town centre, as the main commercial core of the centre has migrated south over the years towards Kingsgate. Some stands get a handful of buses a day, while others are double-booked on the hour or the half-hour.

It looks better than it is because you could compare it to Wakefield, which was nice and spacious when it first opened until Arriva in their infinite wisdom decided to install a load of market stalls selling tat and poor quality confectionery- which swallows up most of the circulation space. Wakefield's anti-social behaviour issues also make Huddersfield seem like the champagne bar at St Pancras by comparison!
I would say Huddersfield IS fit for purpose. That the level of security etc. isn't enough isn't really a reflection on design. As you say, Wakey has the problem of feral kids, and I felt the same in Dewsbury during the middle of the day! Is the multi-storey being grim and ugly a reflection on the bus station... I'd say not. Similarly, the double booking of stands is a failure of execution/management not of design.

Now Wakey.... Well I can deffo agree on that one. Good design but the stalls selling rubbish...

Last time I was there they were just using it to turn around with buses picking up on the roadside outside. I have never seen buses reverse out onto the road, it was always reverse into the Malakoff from the road (or sometimes swing in and reverse across the apron if the turning circle was good enough) and depart forwards - if for no other reason than the passenger waiting area was to one side and passengers walked out over the apron from the road end of the site so buses reversing in means they are facing the right way for passengers to approach safer and quicker.
That's my recollection too. I can't recall vehicles reversing out into the road.
 

mangad

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That's called good timetabling to promote interchange, which on a timetable like the Lakes is quite common.
It is no bad thing service-wise to be able to promote interchange. The issue at Keswick is simply that it's not got the space to have too many buses there at once. Not helped by the fact that loading times are often slow and traffic in the summer can be appallingly bad.

Equally the fact you can get two X5s there (or an X4 and an X5) - one going in each direction - at the same time isn't even a timetabling thing - they are spaced out. It's usually a consequence of one of the services being delayed, and the fact that Keswick's the rough mid-point on a 2 hour journey so is where the timetable allows the driver to have a rest stop.
 
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61653 HTAFC

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I know that services in Batley have declined and the one way system doesn't help it either. And yes, there's a few others like Cleckheaton that have the same issue - the retail units are shuttered, the footfall isn't great because of location, they are a magnet for youths, and the upkeep for maintenance and security is more than the budget can bear (as I mentioned about capital grants vs. revenue budgets).


I would say Huddersfield IS fit for purpose. That the level of security etc. isn't enough isn't really a reflection on design. As you say, Wakey has the problem of feral kids, and I felt the same in Dewsbury during the middle of the day! Is the multi-storey being grim and ugly a reflection on the bus station... I'd say not. Similarly, the double booking of stands is a failure of execution/management not of design.

Now Wakey.... Well I can deffo agree on that one. Good design but the stalls selling rubbish...


That's my recollection too. I can't recall vehicles reversing out into the road.
I wasn't suggesting that Huddersfield isn't fit for purpose, just responding to it being described as "excellent". It's got the bare bones of an excellent facility but there are a few things (both in design and management) that bring it down. The facility itself is certainly fit for purpose (apart from the car park on top, which yes isn't a part of the bus station itself but is part of the same complex) but some of the decisions made by management leave rather a lot to be desired. A wider, less cluttered and more spacious concourse would be nice, but because it's a 1970s structure with a big concrete car park on top, there's not much flexibility to play with.

If anything Dewsbury always surprised me with how little anti-social behaviour there seemed to be there. I think being right next door to the police station helped, along with being on the main walking route between the town centre and Asda.
 

joieman

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Both of the Leicester bus stations are pretty packed on stand usage but that is a deliberate choice by the council and I think there are only a couple of routes that don't go into one of the two bus stations which was never the case before.
The current iteration of St. Margaret's Bus Station effectively having been designed to cater for a National Express monopoly, it's struggling to accommodate the influx of Flixbus coach services.

Besides the stands for National Express coaches at the bottom end of the bus station, there is at the top end one stand theoretically dedicated to Flixbus services (as well as a handful of other minor scheduled coach services) and one for holiday coaches.

However, it's a regular occurrence for both of these stands to be occupied by Flixbus coaches, and on one occasion I saw one coach run a whole loop around the bus station before reversing into a layover stand at the top end of the bus station because there were no free coach stands at that end of the bus station.
 

Statto

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Liverpool Queen Square bus station is awful & not fit for purpose, the stands are weird, & at busy times full that you have to wait outside the stands in all weathers, traffic lights at both ends (& feels like they take an age to turn Green) that buses can take an age getting through Queen Square, & god help when there is a convoy of buses, that you can end up waiting 2 cycles to get through the lights, i have been on buses that have taken anything from sailing through in a couple of minutes to 30 minutes to get through Queen Square.
 

Fawkes Cat

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Liverpool Queen Square bus station is awful & not fit for purpose, the stands are weird, & at busy times full that you have to wait outside the stands in all weathers, traffic lights at both ends (& feels like they take an age to turn Green) that buses can take an age getting through Queen Square, & god help when there is a convoy of buses, that you can end up waiting 2 cycles to get through the lights, i have been on buses that have taken anything from sailing through in a couple of minutes to 30 minutes to get through Queen Square.
I'm not convinced this is a majority view. It certainly isn't perfect - there wasn't much surprise although there was naturally distress when someone was killed using the pedestrian crossing in the middle - but my experience is that the shelters are generally adequate, it's rare to get multiple buses trying to use the same stand, and the allocation of buses to stands is sensible (so all Queen's Square buses to Bootle go from adjacent stands).
 

ChrisC

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Mansfield: cramped public waiting area.
I’m a regular user of Mansfield bus station and I find it quite spacious in comparison to many other bus stations. The end nearest the shop has lots of space and daylight with plenty of seats although I must admit that the waiting areas at the other end are not so good. The other bus station I use regularly is Nottingham Victoria and that is dark, draughty and cramped in comparison to Mansfield
 

hdennis13

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Cambridge drummer street bus station is too small with only 9 bays and buses having to serve nearby bus stops.
Nearby Huntingdon is a smaller, but also has 9 bays, but also has 4 layover stands, waiting room, toilets and a cafe counter.
Also cambridge bus station is quite small, a couple of times buses have reversed into another
 

Bletchleyite

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Cambridge drummer street bus station is too small with only 9 bays and buses having to serve nearby bus stops.

Cambridge is really one of those places where most running works best as cross-city, with the bus station only needed for terminating regional services (and the Busway vehicles). Oxford Gloucester Green is broadly similar, it's more of a coach station than a bus station, almost all Oxford Bus Company services run cross city. These two cities are fairly distributed in their central area so this is a benefit to passengers as well as in meaning you don't need as much central land for a very large bus station.
 

SSmith2009

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The current iteration of St. Margaret's Bus Station effectively having been designed to cater for a National Express monopoly, it's struggling to accommodate the influx of Flixbus coach services.

Besides the stands for National Express coaches at the bottom end of the bus station, there is at the top end one stand theoretically dedicated to Flixbus services (as well as a handful of other minor scheduled coach services) and one for holiday coaches.

However, it's a regular occurrence for both of these stands to be occupied by Flixbus coaches, and on one occasion I saw one coach run a whole loop around the bus station before reversing into a layover stand at the top end of the bus station because there were no free coach stands at that end of the bus station.
that's part of the reason why Skylink was moved from the bottom end to allow NX to use the stand, IMHO St Margaret's could do with stand allocations being looked at again
 

Dwarfer1979

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that's part of the reason why Skylink was moved from the bottom end to allow NX to use the stand, IMHO St Margaret's could do with stand allocations being looked at again
Stand allocations are always being looked at for all bus stations but you don't want to change things just because. The question is whether Flixbus would actually want their passengers waiting next to a staffed National Express customer service desk and ticket machines or would they prefer to keep their passengers as far as possible away from NatEx staff as possible - I suspect National Express would also prefer to keep separate but they shouldn't really get a definitive say (unless they are paying a lot for the facilities they staff) but Flixbus should get a say on that.

St Margarets was perfectly set up for what was required when it was rebuilt, and what probably could have been expected to develop into given the major competitor at the time (Megabus) was avoiding Leicester City Centre. You can't really blame LCC for not foreseeing either the scale of growth of Flix services through Leicester nor that their strategy does include using bus station facilities that many others weren't as interested in.

It would be nice if LCC could take over the land alongside SMBS, what used to be a nightclub until it burned down, and fit it out as a dedicated coach facility designed with side lifts & luggage lockers in mind but it would probably cost more than they can afford right now for something that dedicated.
 

markymark2000

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Stand allocations are always being looked at for all bus stations but you don't want to change things just because. The question is whether Flixbus would actually want their passengers waiting next to a staffed National Express customer service desk and ticket machines or would they prefer to keep their passengers as far as possible away from NatEx staff as possible - I suspect National Express would also prefer to keep separate but they shouldn't really get a definitive say (unless they are paying a lot for the facilities they staff) but Flixbus should get a say on that.
I don't even think that you need to make such large changes. Just move Flixbus to stand SA for pick ups and remove some of the bollards there. Bar a few local buses in the early hours when the rest of the bus station closes, that stand is largely empty and has a kerb along the full length and plenty of space for a lift to be deployed/lockers to be opened. You have right there got a wheelchair accessible coach stand but the LCC have refused to put Flix on it for seemingly no logical reason.
SB can then be a Flix drop off stand/relief pick up stand (if there is a wheelchair passenger, they can use SA or the NX stands one off). Then move the coach holiday pick ups to either a pre book model and then they use the NX stands one off (NX doesn't use 3 stands all day every day so some slots could be found there with collaboration), or move coaches to the empty stop on Savoy Street BB.
 

joieman

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Stand allocations are always being looked at for all bus stations but you don't want to change things just because. The question is whether Flixbus would actually want their passengers waiting next to a staffed National Express customer service desk and ticket machines or would they prefer to keep their passengers as far as possible away from NatEx staff as possible - I suspect National Express would also prefer to keep separate but they shouldn't really get a definitive say (unless they are paying a lot for the facilities they staff) but Flixbus should get a say on that.

St Margarets was perfectly set up for what was required when it was rebuilt, and what probably could have been expected to develop into given the major competitor at the time (Megabus) was avoiding Leicester City Centre. You can't really blame LCC for not foreseeing either the scale of growth of Flix services through Leicester nor that their strategy does include using bus station facilities that many others weren't as interested in.

It would be nice if LCC could take over the land alongside SMBS, what used to be a nightclub until it burned down, and fit it out as a dedicated coach facility designed with side lifts & luggage lockers in mind but it would probably cost more than they can afford right now for something that dedicated.
This evening, for instance, I witnessed Flixbus passengers retrieving their own luggage, straying onto the adjacent bay for the service 127 as they did so due to lack of space next to the coach. It looks quite hazardous for the passengers.

I did actually have the idea of a separate coach terminal as well. But another cheaper option would be to relocate the taxi rank outside the bus station and reinstate the coach stands on Gravel Street that were formerly situated there.
 

SSmith2009

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This evening, for instance, I witnessed Flixbus passengers retrieving their own luggage, straying onto the adjacent bay for the service 127 as they did so due to lack of space next to the coach. It looks quite hazardous for the passengers.

I did actually have the idea of a separate coach terminal as well. But another cheaper option would be to relocate the taxi rank outside the bus station and reinstate the coach stands on Gravel Street that were formerly situated there.
Since the rebuild the taxi rank bays are very narrow to accommodate the pointless cycle lanes that taxis (mostly uber ones) often pull onto to drop off.
 

Simon75

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Macclesfield (relocated in 2004 replacing the old bus station/garage), although enclosed, above the bay doors are chicken mesh, rather than glass,which .makes it draughty
 

Simon75

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Two Essex ones deserve a mention. Chelmsford, which opened in 2007, but is on the site of earlier ones dating back to the 1920s, was designed by somebody who hadn't troubled to check the size of modern buses so that vehicles do multiple shunts to get round the horseshoe layout. Colchester's current Bus Station is a collection of inadequate bus stops which replaced a perfectly good one in 2014.
Also with Chelmsford the size of bus station is smaller than the size of the old bus station/garage which it replaced, now with flats /shops/First Essex office
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Two observations....
  • Judging by the comments, are there any bus stations that are without reproach? Some of the criticisms do seem a little harsh.
  • For us "older contributors", it has to be said that many of the bus stations are infinitely better than we experienced in the past
I do wonder what some folks would make of places that have (thankfully) now gone... the old Eldon Square was horrific (as @Tetchytyke mentioned) or the near lethal manoeuvre of catching a bus in the former Talbot Road bus station in Blackpool.

I never experienced the old Anderston bus station in Glasgow which was apparently "interesting".
 

Statto

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Two observations....
  • Judging by the comments, are there any bus stations that are without reproach? Some of the criticisms do seem a little harsh.
  • For us "older contributors", it has to be said that many of the bus stations are infinitely better than we experienced in the past
I do wonder what some folks would make of places that have (thankfully) now gone... the old Eldon Square was horrific (as @Tetchytyke mentioned) or the near lethal manoeuvre of catching a bus in the former Talbot Road bus station in Blackpool.

I never experienced the old Anderston bus station in Glasgow which was apparently "interesting".

I find this post patronizing, so what, some modern bus stations are inadequate for levels of service that uses them for whatever reason, & were not comparing them with bus stations of yesteryear either.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I find this post patronizing, so what, some modern bus stations are inadequate for levels of service that uses them for whatever reason, & were not comparing them with bus stations of yesteryear either.
It certainly wasn't meant to be patronising.

The comment was about how our standards and expectations are much now higher, and rightly so, despite the usual views that things were apparently better in the past. Lord knows how we survived places like Blackpool (and I'm not of the view that it's "Health and Safety gone mad").

1772722248730.png

Hope this clarifies what I meant @Statto
 

65477

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Also with Chelmsford the size of bus station is smaller than the size of the old bus station/garage which it replaced, now with flats /shops/First Essex office
Chelmsford city centre has a second bus station, if you can call s number of stands in the ground floor of a multi-storey car park a bus station. It's well located for the market and shopping mall but not good for anything else including waiting for a bus.
 

D6130

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Has anyone mentioned Skipton yet? A typical North Yorkshire cheapskate effort....bleak, windswept and rainswept with no facilities other than a long unheated shelter with an above ankle-height gap at the bottom to let in the worst of the weather. What a contrast to the bus station at Keighley just a few miles away! :'(
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Has anyone mentioned Skipton yet? A typical North Yorkshire cheapskate effort....bleak, windswept and rainswept with no facilities other than a long unheated shelter with an above ankle-height gap at the bottom to let in the worst of the weather. What a contrast to the bus station at Keighley just a few miles away! :'(
North Yorkshire doesn’t spend money on buses, let alone bus stations ;)
 

pokemonsuper9

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Lord knows how we survived places like Blackpool (and I'm not of the view that it's "Health and Safety gone mad").

1772722248730.png
That looks more like a bus depot than a bus station.
 

cactustwirly

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Cambridge is really one of those places where most running works best as cross-city, with the bus station only needed for terminating regional services (and the Busway vehicles). Oxford Gloucester Green is broadly similar, it's more of a coach station than a bus station, almost all Oxford Bus Company services run cross city. These two cities are fairly distributed in their central area so this is a benefit to passengers as well as in meaning you don't need as much central land for a very large bus station.
Most bus services terminate at the Westgate instead, this is where most people are going

Or various bus stands across the city
Most Stagecoach and Thames Travel services are interurban

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Personally I don't see the point of a bus station
From the look of this thread they're an outdated concept which is not fit for purpose

In Reading it's just a collection of stops dotted around the station, they are open so reasonably safe to wait at at night. No issues with buses reversing etc
 

Man of Kent

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It looks like a car park above with a bus station shoved underneath underground
Indeed that is exactly what it was. More remarkably, it was opened in 1939, and buses were rather smaller then (7'6" wide and 30' or shorter). It may have been the first example of a bus station with development above it, but definitely not the first covered bus station, which was Workington in 1926.
The building still exists as Talbot Road Car Park, with a gym now occupying the former bus station.
 
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