Reform UK discussion

[martin butler]

This plan falls apart for one simple reason: France will never agree to it. They’ve already refused far smaller UK proposals. No country is going to host British asylum centres or accept everyone who crosses the Channel back on their shores.

International refugee law does not require refugees to carry passports or proof they aren't “wanted elsewhere.” Most refugees flee precisely because they cannot safely obtain documents. Setting documentation as a precondition is simply unlawful and would exclude exactly the people the system is supposed to protect.

Tying asylum to job shortages mixes up two completely different systems. If the UK wants more workers, it can create worker visas. That has nothing to do with persecuted people fleeing danger. Worker routes require planning, not ad hoc selection at the border

Finally, the idea that the UK could arrest and “send people back to France” after a visa expires is pure fantasy. Deportation requires French agreement—something we absolutely do not have.

So the proposal isn’t legal, isn’t realistic, and wouldn’t stop small boats. The only workable solutions involve legal routes, faster processing, and real cooperation, not demanding France do things it has repeatedly said it won’t do.

In my post i did state " an comprehensive agreement", So we would have French agreement to site centres on their soil, and to facilitate the processing of asylum applications, including the return of people to France , criminal checks, I don't see the French authorities not agreeing as a joint French/ English system works in their favour , as it would identify people they might possibly have an interest in also,

Previously Fance did offer to allow us to set up assessment centres in France, We refused it.

 

[The exile]

I am uncomfortable about the assertion of a causal connection between migration and crime, but get the point. What concerns me is that too much of policy focuses on the stick of "stop the boats" but ignores the role of providing a carrot to divert the traffic.

What I think is fair to say is that in any country / culture there is a subset of people whose behavioural excesses are only kept in check by the reaction of others in their community. (There is of course also a group where even that doesn’t work). Remove those individuals from that community and that brake on behaviour no longer functions - no matter whether those individuals are young Englishmen on holiday in Magaluf or young immigrants arriving in a country. In the latter case, once a community establishes itself, it will start to exert its influence again. How we deal with those new arrivals will almost certainly affect behaviour in the short term and the success of community establishment and integration in the long term.

 

[317 forever]

I suspect that a lot of right-wingers will be put off Reform with time after two or three more years of Trump's antics, and after realising they may well screw up the economy as they appear (to me) to be driven by reactionary politics.

I can see this group drifting back to the Tories. As I've said before, I'd say it's quite likely the Tories will come first in the next election, though probably won't gain a majority as, in their current form, they aren't going to get the socially-liberal Southern seats they need back.

And provided the LibDems never go into coalition with the Tories again, many will be safe LibDem seats. Nobody talks about Kingston & Surbiton, St Albans or Oxford West & Abingdon being lost to the Tories or Reform any time soon.

A few Leave leaning LibDem seats could be vulnerable to Reform though, such as in Devon & Cornwall.

 

[Harpo]

While Trump’s Middle East distraction grabs every Sunday paper’s front page, the Mail On Sunday only gives it it a banner above its own headline:

Foreign-born voters stole by-election blasts Farage.

Seems the Tories have even lost the Mail group?

Newspaper headlines: 'Khamenei 'dead in rubble'' and 'Middle East in flames'

All of the Sunday papers carry the major world news story on their front pages - the strikes on Iran by the US and Israel.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[nw1]

While Trump’s Middle East distraction grabs every Sunday paper’s front page, the Mail On Sunday only gives it it a banner above its own headline:

Seems the Tories have even lost the Mail group?

"Foreign-born voters"?

So being "foreign-born" is a problem, even if you have citizenship?

If there was ever any doubt as to whether Farage is a very dangerous individual who absolutely must never become PM, I think that has now been cleared up.

 

[Topological]

I think it is pretty clear that even remotely sensible Tory voters need to vote Tory in 2029. That is the only way that Farage will be stopped in places like Essex.

However, it would really help if Labour could start actually being Labour again and doing something for all the left-behind communities that will also provide opportunities for Reform.

I do still have faith in the UK electorate that the current popularity of Reform is more about trying to wake the main two up. However, 2029 does get ever nearer.

 

[nw1]

I think it is pretty clear that even remotely sensible Tory voters need to vote Tory in 2029. That is the only way that Farage will be stopped in places like Essex.

However, it would really help if Labour could start actually being Labour again and doing something for all the left-behind communities that will also provide opportunities for Reform.

I do still have faith in the UK electorate that the current popularity of Reform is more about trying to wake the main two up. However, 2029 does get ever nearer.

I do agree, as I've said many times I think the Tories will do far better in the next election than people give them credit for.

I also think "the left" will do well as a whole, but their vote will be split across different parties. However it could be enough for a coalition, as I think you're going to get a lot of targeted tactical voting for the most likely left-leaning candidate to win a particular constituency.

I even think it's conceivable that left-wing liberals could end up voting Tory if it's a straight choice between them and Reform (possible in a lot of Eastern England, at a guess).

I can see something vaguely similar to 2019 being a possible outcome, but the "red wall" going to Reform rather than the Tories, and most of the Home Counties going to the Lib Dems rather than the Tories. Plus, a lot of Labour constituencies going for the Greens instead. Rural seats and less-liberal Home Counties seats (the more Brexity ones) likely to be Tory. This would likely lead to a hung parliament with no party anywhere near a majority.

 

[SteveP29]

They might even create a Free United Campaign for Kent

Kent Free Campaign?

Although I think they'd be too chicken to adopt that name.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Mar 2026 ==

Removing the lower minimum wage would disincentivise employers from taking on school leavers, why would they hire someone with zero experience when they could employ someone with experience for the same amount? Trust me when I say this, I have something of an inside track on this through my employer, and a lot of work has been done in the background on this very matter. Levelling the minimum wage for school leavers will very possibly disadvantage them further. It would also put additional pressures on smaller businesses, who often take on younger people, who don't have the margins to simply absorb higher wage costs.

It's already getting harder for school leavers to get into employment, we're seeing that in the data as employers struggle to keep afloat. Making it more expensive for businesses to hire young people will make the situation worse for them.

The only problem with that is, you eventually run out of people with experience, then we'd be left with a whole workforce with no experience, that's be great for continuation, not!

 

[brad465]

I think it is pretty clear that even remotely sensible Tory voters need to vote Tory in 2029. That is the only way that Farage will be stopped in places like Essex.

However, it would really help if Labour could start actually being Labour again and doing something for all the left-behind communities that will also provide opportunities for Reform.

I do still have faith in the UK electorate that the current popularity of Reform is more about trying to wake the main two up. However, 2029 does get ever nearer.

There are multiple Labour politicians in the inner circle saying publicly they should stop pandering to Reform voters, including Powell and Sadiq Khan. I suspect though serious traction won't be made until Starmer leaves office, which will almost certainly be before 2029 and by all probably before the end of 2026 as well.

 

[SuspectUsual]

until Starmer leaves office, which will almost certainly be before 2029 and by all probably before the end of 2026 as wel

I do wonder if we'll ever have another long term Prime Minister. The state of the traditional media and more importantly social media these days seems to mean unrelenting negative publicity and reputations being trashed regardless of who is in power.

 

[nw1]

I do wonder if we'll ever have another long term Prime Minister. The state of the traditional media and more importantly social media these days seems to mean unrelenting negative publicity and reputations being trashed regardless of who is in power.

I do think that two PMs in particular were unfairly treated. These are Gordon Brown and Theresa May. While I am of the left-leaning persuasion, and not a Tory, I think what these two had in common is neither did anything that terrible, yet both were endlessly pilloried. Indeed, I would rate Brown as the PM I dislike the least (Thatcher onwards).

Starmer, while not great (he should stop pandering to Reform voters, absolutely) isn't as terrible as all that (certainly better than Thatcher, Boris or Truss) yet seems to be treated by some as the Devil incarnate, while that label more rightly goes to the head of state of another English-speaking country. In all honesty Sunak wasn't that terrible either in and of himself, but made some appalling choices for senior appointments (Braverman? Anderson? Why???)

In my local area I have seen "away" football teams increasingly "sticker" lamp-posts. Some of it is just football-related but then you get Leicester City fans put up stickers with the St George Cross (not the Leicester emblem, AFAIK) and "STOP THE BOATS! STARMER OUT!"

This does nothing but trash the reputation of Leicester City fans by giving them a hard-right image. The idiot(s) who put up these stickers should think hard on that.

 

[Gloster]

I do wonder if we'll ever have another long term Prime Minister. The state of the traditional media and more importantly social media these days seems to mean unrelenting negative publicity and reputations being trashed regardless of who is in power.

A couple of recent ones did not need social media to trash their reputations: they were quite capable of doing it themselves. You know who I mean.

 

[brad465]

I do wonder if we'll ever have another long term Prime Minister. The state of the traditional media and more importantly social media these days seems to mean unrelenting negative publicity and reputations being trashed regardless of who is in power.

It certainly is true that the desire for 24 hour media and sensational headlines creates a hostile atmosphere for well-minded politicians to exist, as competent delivery is boring and doesn't sell in the media world.

 

[martin butler]

Apparently, reform now have a thing about sex, and feel that we need to be told about it, because somehow, we are doing it wrong,

I don't need some person from the ministry of reproduction, with a clipboard standing over me thank you, it just sounds too kinky,

What I think they really mean is, that we are not having enough children, of course, it will need to be children with the right ethnicity, Whats whats next, banning mixed marriage ? ensuring you don't dilute the gene pool , its really taken straight out of Nazism for dummies,

 

[styles]

Apparently, reform now have a thing about sex, and feel that we need to be told about it, because somehow, we are doing it wrong,

I don't need some person from the ministry of reproduction, with a clipboard standing over me thank you, it just sounds too kinky,

What I think they really mean is, that we are not having enough children, of course, it will need to be children with the right ethnicity, Whats whats next, banning mixed marriage ? ensuring you don't dilute the gene pool , its really taken straight out of Nazism for dummies,

I may have missed this completely. What Reform sex policy are you referring to? I don't think I've seen anything in the past few days?

 

[martin butler]

I may have missed this completely. What Reform sex policy are you referring to? I don't think I've seen anything in the past few days?

Its some statement attributed to Danny Kruger, a Former Tory that reform wants to bring in Sex inspectors but so far, I have not been able to find the exact statement, so the source cannot be confirmed

Apparently, the party are alarmed that birthrates amongst ethnic White British are below that of other ethic groupings,

 

[35B]

Its some statement put out by Danny KRUGAR an Reform MP, Former Tory that reform want to bring in Sex inspectors

Apparently the party are alarmed that birthrates amounst ethnic White british are below that of other ethic groupings,

It's classic declinism, being paranoid that families are too small and that we need more children. What amuses me is that it's a core line from the Hungarian right, and yet the decline in birth rate there is one of the worst - almost as though running a corrupt autocracy isn't the best way to encourage young couples to feel secure and have children

 

[JGurney]

Its some statement put out by Danny KRUGAR an Reform MP, Former Tory that reform want to bring in Sex inspectors

Not literally.

He has brought together two threads from the fringe Right, racist nationalism and inceldom.

According to the Telegraph (24th Feb) he has said that "the sexual revolution has gone too far" and that "Britain is suffering because of it's totally unregulated sexual economy".

These ideas are quite common in the American 'manosphere' subculture and 'inceldom'. Their theory is that the "sexual revolution" of the 1960's has led to most women pursuing a small number of particularly attractive men, leaving all the average and sub-average men unable to find a girlfriend. They call for a 'regulated sexual economy' where every man gets a woman rather than a few men getting several women each, as they seem to imagine happens at present. These ideas have been taken up by American racists and combined with racism, ending up with the idea that white women have been chasing after black men who have been 'glamorised' by the media, and that this should be stopped. They have much less objection to white men being in relationships with black women: apparently they think that a white man being both sexually and racially superior having a submissive lady who is both sexually and racially inferior is fine and natural, but not the other way round.

Whether Farage will thank Kruger for associating Reform UK with this stuff remains to be seen.

 

[Killingworth]

Its some statement put out by Danny KRUGAR an Reform MP, Former Tory that reform want to bring in Sex inspectors

Apparently the party are alarmed that birthrates amounst ethnic White british are below that of other ethic groupings,

That's certainly true, just as in Northern Ireland sectarian politics has long drawn attention to the higher birth rates in Catholic than Protestant communities.

Drilling down you may find the higher the education level the lower the birth rate in most groups, but sweeping generalisations and use of crude statistics need handling with very great care.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Kruger has also said he wishes to get rid of the concept of a no-fault divorce. Clearly the solution to declining birth rates is to make it a lot harder to leave your spouse. He's an idiot - even the rest of Reform's hateful eight don't believe in this nonsense

 

[AlterEgo]

Not literally.

He has brought together two threads from the fringe Right, racist nationalism and inceldom.

According to the Telegraph (24th Feb) he has said that "the sexual revolution has gone too far" and that "Britain is suffering because of it's totally unregulated sexual economy".

These ideas are quite common in the American 'manosphere' subculture and 'inceldom'. Their theory is that the "sexual revolution" of the 1960's has led to most women pursuing a small number of particularly attractive men, leaving all the average and sub-average men unable to find a girlfriend. They call for a 'regulated sexual economy' where every man gets a woman rather than a few men getting several women each, as they seem to imagine happens at present. These ideas have been taken up by American racists and combined with racism, ending up with the idea that white women have been chasing after black men who have been 'glamorised' by the media, and that this should be stopped. They have much less objection to white men being in relationships with black women: apparently they think that a white man being both sexually and racially superior having a submissive lady who is both sexually and racially inferior is fine and natural, but not the other way round.

Whether Farage will thank Kruger for associating Reform UK with this stuff remains to be seen.

That's pretty spot on, and also worth pointing out the buried lede with this stuff is the desire to be a victim, which is a fair way down the road to learned helplessness. Not the stuff model parents (if there were such a thing!) should be made from.

 

[MP33]

So, we are to go back to the days of booking into a Hotel with a Private Detective, of the opposite sex, as Mr and Mrs Smith. It will help the seaside Hospitality industry, at least.

 

[Harpo]

One Reform oddball who appears to be doing enough ‘look over here’ nonsense to stop anyone asking ‘where’s Farage*’ for comment on his mate’s middle eastern hand grenade.


* Obviously not expecting the answer to be ‘Clacton’.

 

[Three-Nine]

“Unregulated sexual economy” - and how Reform haven’t been laughed into space for devising that phrase - isn’t just about doing more breeding; its almost certainly in part directed to that other obsession of the right, LGBTQ rights. ”Unregulated sexual economy” isn’t so much a dog whistle as a dog foghorn…

 

[martin butler]

“Unregulated sexual economy” - and how Reform haven’t been laughed into space for devising that phrase - isn’t just about doing more breeding; its almost certainly in part directed to that other obsession of the right, LGBTQ rights. ”Unregulated sexual economy” isn’t so much a dog whistle as a dog foghorn…

" Unregulated sexual economy" Isn't that also another way of describing the oldest profession since time?
It seems a very strange thing to be hung up on, though, I can think of far better issues that are more deserving of our time and attention,
Who's betting that this odious man, will be exposed in some scam, and be found, in a compromising position, there isn't anything as strange as folk, and MP's especially right-wing ones, seem to be stranger still.

 

[ainsworth74]

“Unregulated sexual economy” - and how Reform haven’t been laughed into space for devising that phrase - isn’t just about doing more breeding; its almost certainly in part directed to that other obsession of the right, LGBTQ rights. ”Unregulated sexual economy” isn’t so much a dog whistle as a dog foghorn…

Plus it would presumably cause issues for one of our biggest tech successes OnlyFans who even mange to actually pay UK Corporation tax making them some unique amongst large tech companies! Admittedly I suppose it's not quite in an industry which politicians want to celebrate as a British success... Especially as they won't celebrate the success of more conventional industries like the video games industry:

University of Portsmouth research has revealed that the UK video games industry generates £12 billion in Gross Value Added (GVA) annually and supports more than 73,000 jobs across the country.

The comprehensive report, commissioned by TIGA (the trade association representing the UK video games industry), was authored by Professor Homagni Choudhury, Professor Joe Cox and Dr Alan Leonard from the University's School of Accounting, Economics and Finance.

Their rigorous economic analysis reveals the sector contributes £2.2 billion in tax revenues to the Treasury while supporting approximately 28,000 developers in high-skilled roles.

Crucially, the independent research shows most economic activity occurs outside London, with significant regional contributions including £443 million in the North- West, £393 million in Scotland, and £362 million in the West Midlands.

Portsmouth academics reveal UK video games industry generates £12 billion annually

University of Portsmouth research highlights the video games sector's vital economic contribution in the UK in new report from TIGA.

www.port.ac.uk

And would rather whang on about fishing which makes a tiny contribution to the UK economy in comparison:

Headline results from the report​

• The UK fleet generated approximately £1.15 billion in fishing income in 2024.
• Turnover in 2024 rose to £1.2 billion
• Operating profits are expected to have risen by 26 per cent from £267 million in 2023 to £337 million in 2024.
• The UK fishing fleet landed 716,000 tonnes of fish and shellfish in 2024.
• Mackerel was the top species landed with 226,000 tonnes.
• Landings increased by 15 per cent over 2023, primarily due to higher catches of key pelagic species.
• The UK fishing sector had 7,263 full-time equivalent jobs in 2024.
• There were 3,785 active vessels in the fleet.

UK’s fishing fleet nets over £1 billion but industry challenges remain | Seafish)

The latest Economics of the UK Fishing Fleet report from Seafish presents economic estimates at UK, home nation and fleet segment level for the UK fishing fleet.

www.seafish.org

You'd think that making sure an industry that employs 73,000 people, has major economic impacts throughout the country and contributes billions in tax revenue would be more important to protect and develop...

 

[Railwaycat]

And would rather whang on about fishing which makes a tiny contribution to the UK economy in comparison:

UK’s fishing fleet nets over £1 billion but industry challenges remain | Seafish)

The latest Economics of the UK Fishing Fleet report from Seafish presents economic estimates at UK, home nation and fleet segment level for the UK fishing fleet.

www.seafish.org

You'd think that making sure an industry that employs 73,000 people, has major economic impacts throughout the country and contributes billions in tax revenue would be more important to protect and develop...

Last I heard, you can't eat video games...

 

[Meole]

Reform Welsh manifesto includes the M 4 relief road, its to be a private finance toll road. No mention of rail policy.

Senedd election: Nigel Farage launches Reform UK's Welsh manifesto

Reform promise to scrap Wales' 20mph limit and end migrant hotels in its bid to form the next Welsh government.

www.bbc.co.uk

Speaking to BBC Wales after stepping off stage, Nigel Farage says Reform would make the M4 relief road it has proposed a toll road, should it get into power.

He describes the M4 as "a bit of a disaster".

He says his Welsh leader Dan Thomas wanted to "get private capital in, make it a toll road, and give the people the option of doing it".

 

[Three-Nine]

As far as most “traditional” media and politics goes for video gaming, they’ve never really got over thinking of it as “kids stuff” (despite the fact that for a long time now, the average gamer age has been roughly middle aged), and anything related to it isn’t a “proper” profession. It’s a bit like animation; it doesn’t matter how good or mature the content is, some people will always think of them as “cartoons for kids”. There are obviously exceptions as far as coverage goes, but I remember one right-leaning newspaper (you can probably guess which one) seriously asking if “Pokémon” was Satanic a few years back…

 

[The exile]

As far as most “traditional” media and politics goes for video gaming, they’ve never really got over thinking of it as “kids stuff” (despite the fact that for a long time now, the average gamer age has been roughly middle aged), and anything related to it isn’t a “proper” profession. It’s a bit like animation; it doesn’t matter how good or mature the content is, some people will always think of them as “cartoons for kids”. There are obviously exceptions as far as coverage goes, but I remember one right-leaning newspaper (you can probably guess which one) seriously asking if “Pokémon” was Satanic a few years back…

There’s certainly a (large) degree of this, but there’s also the fact that things like farming, fishing and mining have a “sense of place” with strong roots in deeply-established communities (they literally can’t be done anywhere else). Similar applies to big heavy manufacturing (for “us on here” think Swindon, Doncaster, Crewe etc but equally Longbridge, Halewood etc) because it’s not easy to move. However high the contribution of animation or gaming, they (and lots of other modern industries) are essentially mobile- to add to the fact that they haven’t been around long enough to establish that sense of place.