Split ticketing - a blessing or a curse?

[Killingworth]

I was at Dore & Totley station this afternoon when I spotted a bewildered gentleman who'd just alighted from a Northern train from Manchester. He was looking for his next train to Nottingham and couldn't find it. His ticket is below, read on.





Those who know the line will wonder how the Piccadilly ticket office at 12.48(?) could have sold him this without pointing out that it was a split ticket to get him the best price - BUT he should change in Sheffield, NOT at Dore & Totley as seemed to be printed. I hope they'd pointed out that this combination leaving at 13.48 to arrive in Nottingham at 16.30 could have been made more easily by catching the EMR 13.43 that runs through to Nottingham arriving at 15.30.

As it was he was marooned at sunny Dore for an hour. He should have stayed aboard the Northern train and caught the EMR train in Sheffield, hopefully arriving in Nottingham at 17.30. That's 2 hours later than he could have done, and an hour later than he should have done if he hadn't alighted.

The gentleman doesn't use trains very much but was an intelligent academic specialising in soil mechanics, a very interesting man of the world. He took his plight very well, but really had wanted to get back home to see his 2 young children. He found some difficulty understanding this split ticket mullarkey.

Unfortunately this is by no means the first time I've met someone like this but the first chance I've had to view the tickets. It must happen quite often. One lady was routed to change at Dore from Southport to Swinton (Yorks). Another from Cambridge to Edale was most unfortunate as he had a 2 hour wait on a bitterly cold Sunday at very open Dore.

This is seen from the customer inconvenience viewpoint.

However, how will this journey fit into passenger number statistics? Will Dore & Totley figure twice for a journey where the traveller should never have alighted? Will it show as 2 shorter journey rather than one longer trip? I suspect growing use of split tickets is giving rail passenger numbers an artificial boost to the obvious detriment (to the railway) of income.

Great for passengers, but please can the industry ensure the operational niceties are made a lot clearer to those taking advantage?

 

[ChilliSauce]

I was at Dore & Totley station this afternoon when I spotted a bewildered gentleman who'd just alighted from a Northern train from Manchester. He was looking for his next train to Nottingham and couldn't find it. His ticket is below, read on.

View attachment 199526

View attachment 199528

Those who know the line will wonder how the Piccadilly ticket office at 12.48(?) could have sold him this without pointing out that it was a split ticket to get him the best price - BUT he should change in Sheffield, NOT at Dore & Totley as seemed to be printed. I hope they'd pointed out that this combination leaving at 13.48 to arrive in Nottingham at 16.30 could have been made more easily by catching the EMR 13.43 that runs through to Nottingham arriving at 15.30.

As it was he was marooned at sunny Dore for an hour. He should have stayed aboard the Northern train and caught the EMR train in Sheffield, hopefully arriving in Nottingham at 17.30. That's 2 hours later than he could have done, and an hour later than he should have done if he hadn't alighted.

The gentleman doesn't use trains very much but was an intelligent academic specialising in soil mechanics, a very interesting man of the world. He took his plight very well, but really had wanted to get back home to see his 2 young children. He found some difficulty understanding this split ticket mullarkey.

Unfortunately this is by no means the first time I've met someone like this but the first chance I've had to view the tickets. It must happen quite often. One lady was routed to change at Dore from Southport to Swinton (Yorks). Another from Cambridge to Edale was most unfortunate as he had a 2 hour wait on a bitterly cold Sunday at very open Dore.

This is seen from the customer inconvenience viewpoint.

However, how will this journey fit into passenger number statistics? Will Dore & Totley figure twice for a journey where the traveller should never have alighted? Will it show as 2 shorter journey rather than one longer trip? I suspect growing use of split tickets is giving rail passenger numbers an artificial boost to the obvious detriment (to the railway) of income.

Great for passengers, but please can the industry ensure the operational niceties are made a lot clearer to those taking advantage?

Personally I believe it shows a complete breakdown of the fares system in the UK ... If buying a handful of tickets to complete a simple journey (or indeed any journey) results in a lower overall price compared to a through ticket then it's time for change.

I have also many times on a Sunday witnessed what I would call "musical chairs" on LNER where those on split tickets have had to change seats.. They have no choice as the seat they are in, is onwards reserved .... But not for them!

 

[RJ]

Ticket office staff are told not to sell split tickets to people unless they specifically ask for them. Not everybody spends 40 hours of their week on the railways or understands the technical innards of ticketing.

Selling splits that aren’t asked for can confuse passengers and lead them into situations where they could get into trouble. I would suggest this isn’t particularly helpful. The ticket isn’t the problem in this case, it’s staff going against the retailing rules then failing to ensure the passenger understood what they were sold.

If the passenger fully understands what they are buying then surely it’s a blessing that there’s an option to save money.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Mar 2026 ==

Personally I believe it shows a complete breakdown of the fares system in the UK ... If buying a handful of tickets to complete a simple journey (or indeed any journey) results in a lower overall price compared to a through ticket then it's time for change.

I have also many times on a Sunday witnessed what I would call "musical chairs" on LNER where those on split tickets have had to change seats.. They have no choice as the seat they are in, is onwards reserved .... But not for them!

A split ticket isn’t the same product as a through ticket - splits might involve sacrificing flexibility over which trains can be used or right to break a journey. Why should the price be the same as a through ticket?

 

[AlterEgo]

I was at Dore & Totley station this afternoon when I spotted a bewildered gentleman who'd just alighted from a Northern train from Manchester. He was looking for his next train to Nottingham and couldn't find it. His ticket is below, read on.

View attachment 199526

View attachment 199528

Those who know the line will wonder how the Piccadilly ticket office at 12.48(?) could have sold him this without pointing out that it was a split ticket to get him the best price - BUT he should change in Sheffield, NOT at Dore & Totley as seemed to be printed. I hope they'd pointed out that this combination leaving at 13.48 to arrive in Nottingham at 16.30 could have been made more easily by catching the EMR 13.43 that runs through to Nottingham arriving at 15.30.

As it was he was marooned at sunny Dore for an hour. He should have stayed aboard the Northern train and caught the EMR train in Sheffield, hopefully arriving in Nottingham at 17.30. That's 2 hours later than he could have done, and an hour later than he should have done if he hadn't alighted.

The gentleman doesn't use trains very much but was an intelligent academic specialising in soil mechanics, a very interesting man of the world. He took his plight very well, but really had wanted to get back home to see his 2 young children. He found some difficulty understanding this split ticket mullarkey.

Unfortunately this is by no means the first time I've met someone like this but the first chance I've had to view the tickets. It must happen quite often. One lady was routed to change at Dore from Southport to Swinton (Yorks). Another from Cambridge to Edale was most unfortunate as he had a 2 hour wait on a bitterly cold Sunday at very open Dore.

This is seen from the customer inconvenience viewpoint.

However, how will this journey fit into passenger number statistics? Will Dore & Totley figure twice for a journey where the traveller should never have alighted? Will it show as 2 shorter journey rather than one longer trip? I suspect growing use of split tickets is giving rail passenger numbers an artificial boost to the obvious detriment (to the railway) of income.

Great for passengers, but please can the industry ensure the operational niceties are made a lot clearer to those taking advantage?

Did the passenger ask for split tickets? If not, the booking office has violated the TSA. Prime example of why this should not be done here; the passenger is clearly clueless and not familiar with how any of this works and they've been stiffed.

 

[Haywain]

Did the passenger ask for split tickets? If not, the booking office has violated the TSA. Prime example of why this should not be done here; the passenger is clearly clueless and not familiar with how any of this works and they've been stiffed.

And for the sake of saving less than two quid!

 

[Peter0124]

To be fair, when travelling Glasgow to Manchester, it is always cheaper to split at Preston (unless using advances). Because Glasgow - Preston has a day return fare, when Gla - Man doesn't. Making it a lot cheaper for same day travel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is an example of where booking offices trying to be "helpful" have caused issues*. I'm astonished they did that unless he actually requested it and then misunderstood what he had requested, which is always a possibility.

No massive harm in them doing it where the split is at a change, but even then it may reduce flexibility** so that needs to be clearly explained. Though they are still not supposed to do so.

* I once sent a fellow Scout leader to Bletchley booking office to get tickets for a trip while I was doing something else, I wrote down exactly what tickets we wanted (a certain combination of GroupSaves in the days when these offered child discount) and they "helpfully" did it cheaper, unfortunately such that our original intended groups didn't work, and we had to rejig our groups as there wasn't time to go back and faff about having them all non-issued and redone

** Obviously if it's all Advances that's fine as there is no flexibility anyway.

 

[Haywain]

To be fair, when travelling Glasgow to Manchester, it is always cheaper to split at Preston (unless using advances). Because Glasgow - Preston has a day return fare, when Gla - Man doesn't. Making it a lot cheaper for same day travel.

It might well be cheaper to split, but a ticket office should not be offering it. It's not really relevant to this case.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Mar 2026 ==

This is an example of where booking offices trying to be "helpful" have caused issues*. I'm astonished they did that unless he actually requested it and then misunderstood what he had requested, which is always a possibility.

Just had a quick look at the fares available for today, and it appears that the Advance fare to Sheffield will have been exactly the same as the Advance fare to Dore & Totley, so it is difficult to understand why Dore would have been chosen, no matter who selected that split. And, as I mentioned above, a split only save a small amount over a through ticket (Super Off Peak Single £31.70).

 

[ChilliSauce]

A split ticket isn’t the same product as a through ticket - splits might involve sacrificing flexibility over which trains can be used or right to break a journey. Why should the price be the same as a through ticket?

I still maintain that the fares system is broken where buying a handfull of tickets all running consecutively to undertake a complete journey gives a cheaper fare than a simple point to point ticket with the same restrictions on use etc.

The stupidity of the situation is perhaps demonstrated where the "fare setter" for the Journey is a TOC that doesn't actually run any trains on that route.

Only the fragmented UK rail privatisation could of delivered such a broken system.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A split ticket isn’t the same product as a through ticket - splits might involve sacrificing flexibility over which trains can be used or right to break a journey. Why should the price be the same as a through ticket?

Sometimes a split ticket increases your rights. For instance, if you do wish to break your journey along the route of an Advance splitting is the only permissible way to do so.

It almost always reduces your route choice though.

What it absolutely doesn't do is affect your rights to Delay Repay or journey continuation, however.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Mar 2026 ==

I still maintain that the fares system is broken where buying a handfull of tickets all running consecutively to undertake a complete journey gives a cheaper fare than a simple point to point ticket with the same restrictions on use etc.

The stupidity of the situation is perhaps demonstrated where the "fare setter" for the Journey is a TOC that doesn't actually run any trains on that route.

Only the fragmented UK rail privatisation could of delivered such a broken system.

I'd agree with regard to splits on flexible tickets. On Advances, to be honest "one ticket per vehicle journey" is in many ways the simpler way to do it and is how it's done in much of Europe anyway. Splits like that are very often cheaper on multiple TOC journeys. They also mean no faff going through gatelines at intermediate stations and the likes, and each ticket is a "boarding pass" for that train meaning the reservation and time info is on the front of it.

Splits without changing on Advances are an artefact of how the quota system works. The railway was going to fix that at one point but never got round to it (funny how it finds it easy to get round to things that are to its advantage).

Walk-up splits without changing trains are almost always due to day returns being cheaper than period returns, something that single fare pricing gets rid of. I very rarely find, outside of TOC specific cheap fares like using WMT south of Crewe/Birmingham, that these occur on period return journeys. Though there are odd examples of where the fares data is just a bit rubbish, e.g. you can save a quid or so with a split on the south WCML even when buying a simple Anytime Day Single, though I won't post exactly what it is lest they fix it, they can find it themselves if they want to do that.

 

[alistairlees]

I still maintain that the fares system is broken where buying a handfull of tickets all running consecutively to undertake a complete journey gives a cheaper fare than a simple point to point ticket with the same restrictions on use etc.

The stupidity of the situation is perhaps demonstrated where the "fare setter" for the Journey is a TOC that doesn't actually run any trains on that route.

Only the fragmented UK rail privatisation could of delivered such a broken system.

Split ticketing is available on TfL too. Is that broken?
I'm pretty sure in Switzerland too. In fact in many places with different transit and ticketing systems.
It is probably at its most extensive in the UK though.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Advance splitting is the only permissible way to do so.

It almost exclusively reduces your route choice though.

Not if you're already using advanced tickets. You're just choosing different train(s) to be locked into using.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not if you're already using advanced tickets. You're just choosing different train(s) to be locked into using.

Correct, I was more saying (badly) that splitting walk-up fares mostly reduces your route choice at the point of travel.

Splitting Advances often increases it - a "proper" splitting site such as the Forum one will quote for any route you like, including ones that require a split, which can be very handy. With the Forum site/Trainsplit such splits are free of additional charge as there's no through ticket from which to calculate a saving, too!

 

[Haywain]

Sometimes a split ticket increases your rights. For instance, if you do wish to break your journey along the route of an Advance splitting is the only permissible way to do so.

But, as @RJ said in the line you quoted, that involves sacrificing flexibility.

Splitting Advances often increases it - a "proper" splitting site such as the Forum one will quote for any route you like, including ones that require a split, which can be very handy.

It does that for walk-up ticket too.

 

[Hadders]

I still maintain that the fares system is broken where buying a handfull of tickets all running consecutively to undertake a complete journey gives a cheaper fare than a simple point to point ticket with the same restrictions on use etc.

Do feel free to post your proposals of how the fares system might be reformed. Bear in mind that any proposals must not result in an increase in Government subsidy to the railway.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But, as @RJ said in the line you quoted, that involves sacrificing flexibility.

In what way does splitting Advances as an alternative to buying a through Advance sacrifice flexibility? You have to use the booked trains regardless.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Mar 2026 ==

Do feel free to post your proposals of how the fares system might be reformed. Bear in mind that any proposals must not result in an increase in Government subsidy to the railway.

This isn't a speculative thread so probably not here though

What is of note though is that because Trainline now does splits it is mainstream, not a niche thing, and as Trainline sells the vast majority of tickets that means most people who can split are doing.

 

[Haywain]

In what way does splitting Advances as an alternative to buying a through Advance sacrifice flexibility? You have to use the booked trains regardless.

RJ already made the point that splitting ticket could involve sacrificing flexibility over which trains can be used or right to break a journey, all you are doing is demonstrating that he was correct.

 

[Bletchleyite]

RJ already made the point that splitting ticket could involve sacrificing flexibility over which trains can be used or right to break a journey, all you are doing is demonstrating that he was correct.

It could. But it could also increase your options in some cases, e.g. going via non-permitted routes or purchasing a split that would give you tickets with no break of journey restriction when the through ticket has one (splitting Euston-Glasgow at Preston would do this).

You could just as easily say "purchasing a through ticket could involve sacrificing..."

 

[sheff1]

Regardless of it being contrary to the TSA, why on earth would the ticket office sell a split which 'saves' less than £2 and involves a stopping train and a change when the passenger has not requested it and there is a direct train which would give a hour earlier arrival ?

Is there something more to this ?

 

[Haywain]

Is there something more to this ?

I can't help feeling that there is but we will never know.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there something more to this ?

I bet the passenger asked for it. I just can't see why booking office staff would sell that without being asked to.

 

[Killingworth]

Regardless of it being contrary to the TSA, why on earth would the ticket office sell a split which 'saves' less than £2 and involves a stopping train and a change when the passenger has not requested it and there is a direct train which would give a hour earlier arrival ?

Is there something more to this ?

I couldn't understand it either, even after talking to the chap for over half an hour. He was totally baffled because he'd clearly never heard of split ticketing.

An academic specialising in soil mechanics he'd not been in England long having spent periods in Singapore, China, Pakistan and maybe Australia.

What concerns me more is that he was not the first I've encountered at Dore. Last summer I saw a group of about a dozen who were changing from an EMR Sunday morning service from Nottingham to wait over half an hour for a Northern train to Edale (the EMR will stop at Edale from May). Apparently it was saving about £1 over changing at Sheffield - someone in the group was very proud of finding that saving for that day! No, I couldn't replicate it for a future journey but that was deliberate and knowing.

I suspect the Piccadilly booking clerk may have explained without realising that although they understood what they were selling their customer did not. The information on the ticket does show a change at Sheffield, but an apparent change at Dore & Totley is displayed far more prominently, see Post 1.

He may have been lucky. As far as I can see his ticket from Dore into Sheffield and on to Nottingham would have been valid on the Northern Leeds - Nottingham service. If he sprinted from Platform 2 to adjacent 5 in Sheffield he had one minute to make the connection!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

If he sprinted from Platform 1 to adjacent 5 in Sheffield

I was going to say that 1 and 5 aren't adjacent, that'd be 2 and 5, but the connection in question was between 2 and 5.

If the connection was missed however, they'd at least be able to get some delay repay, as the EMR arrived at Nottingham 20 minutes late.

 

[Killingworth]

I was going to say that 1 and 5 aren't adjacent, that'd be 2 and 5, but the connection in question was between 2 and 5.

If the connection was missed however, they'd at least be able to get some delay repay, as the EMR arrived at Nottingham 20 minutes late.

Typo, should have said 2, now corrected I doubt he'd have understood delay repay.

 

[andy33gmail]

The other related issue is having more limited options to re-route, including to avoid disruption. For example, splitting at Letchworth saves about £4 going to Kings Cross, but rules out going via Liverpool Street

I suspect similar examples exist in other cities with multiple terminii and multiple “normal” routes

 

[saismee]

The other related issue is having more limited options to re-route, including to avoid disruption. For example, splitting at Letchworth saves about £4 going to Kings Cross, but rules out going via Liverpool Street

It also rules out the fast Lynn services.

 

[janb]

Regardless of it being contrary to the TSA, why on earth would the ticket office sell a split which 'saves' less than £2 and involves a stopping train and a change when the passenger has not requested it and there is a direct train which would give a hour earlier arrival ?

Is there something more to this ?

*Not* saying this happened in this instance, but it's quite a common scenario these days have the following sort of exchange,
Customer: "Can I have a single to Nottingham please?"
Staff: "That's £31.70 please"
C: "Oh, Trainline says its £29.90"
S: "Oh, they must be splitting it somewhere."
<customer shows phone screen which sure enough includes Splitsave logo, staff member either knows from experience where they are splitting at or asks customer to press on further and show them>
S: "OK, I can do that for the same price, but you must be on the 1348 train"

Now as the transaction concludes it should be explained there is a ticket Manchester to Dore, Dore to Nottingham but they change trains at Sheffield, however if the customer is seen as the one who introduced split ticketing to the conversation (even if quite frequently the Trainline user in this situation has no idea what that is) it may not be reinforced as much as it should.

 

[rishtonlad]

I was on a Cross Country service to Birmingham a while back and there was a couple behind me that had come from Manchester going through Birmingham with a split at Stoke with at least one being an advance. They should have been on the previous Cross Country service from Manchester. What they had done they had been looking at the departures boards at Manchester for Stoke and had caught the Northern Service and changed at Stoke. The guard on the service I was on charged them for new tickets from Stoke, but said it should have been Manchester.

 

[robbeech]

Sometimes a split ticket increases your rights. For instance, if you do wish to break your journey along the route of an Advance splitting is the only permissible way to do so

I think we would be better to align the terminology and stick with it. What is a journey?

If we are to accept as per the NRCOT that we may use more than one ticket for a “journey” but we accept that you are not allowed to break your journey on advance single tickets then we must also accept that if you add a couple of hours wait at a particular city on advance single tickets and you perform an act that would be considered breaking your journey (such as leaving the station premises for anything other than a transfer) then you are undertaking more than one journey.

This is very much like the having your cake and eating it process when you claim delay repay on one ticket of your split ticketed journey OR the whole lot depending on which pays the most. It’s poor form and is the sort of thing that the railway would overreact to in an attempt to prohibit it making the railway more expensive and/or less flexible for everyone.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If we are to accept as per the NRCOT that we may use more than one ticket for a “journey” but we accept that you are not allowed to break your journey on advance single tickets then we must also accept that if you add a couple of hours wait at a particular city on advance single tickets and you perform an act that would be considered breaking your journey (such as leaving the station premises for anything other than a transfer) then you are undertaking more than one journey.

I think it is perfectly possible to have one journey containing multiple tickets where breaks are allowed on some of them but not others. Combining an Advance on an intercity leg with an Anytime Day Single on a local leg is totally normal and absolutely does constitute one journey, and people were doing that long before splitting sites even existed.

Don't give them any more ideas than they already have!

I don't see any issue with the interpretation of "while using this ticket, you cannot break your journey", which is how it works.