Australia: Stark warning about "Journey Beyond" train operator

[John R]

We have travelled on the Adelaide to Brisbane service and instead of booking direct used Trailfinders as part of an overall package. This could be one way to bring the booking under U.K. legislation.

(As an aside, during COVID, Trailfinders were excellent in refunding a complete Canada package within a day of Via Rail confirming that the Canadian would not be running. Unlike most other tour operators and airlines which held onto funds for months or offered credit notes.)

 

[doc7austin]

Terminating the train in Lithgow is a practice that has been going on for many years. JBR is not lazy in coming up with some lame (and sometimes inconsistent) excuses.

Anyway, I consider a train that is departing Perth and returning to Perth as extremely disrupted. As JBR only runs one trainset for the Indian Pacific, we should not forget the full cancellations out of Sydney and Adelaide that had been going on for weeks now (+ the cancellations in January).

In addition, no one so far was able to name a travel insurance policy that would cover a full cash refund in case JBR cancelled a train.

 

[railfan99]

Most unusually, the 'IP' departed East Perth this afternoon (Tuesday 3 March 2026) and is travelling to Adelaide as the line is open all the way. I believe it has passengers.

This should enable the late Thurday night Adelaide to Perth train (same carriages) to operate.

The line between Peterburough, South Australia and Broken Hill, NSW (but close to the SA border) is cut with washaways. Allegedly it won't reopen until Sunday 8 March.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

Most unusually, the 'IP' departed East Perth this afternoon (Tuesday 3 March 2026) and is travelling to Adelaide as the line is open all the way. I believe it has passengers.

This should enable the late Thurday night Adelaide to Perth train (same carriages) to operate.

The line between Peterburough, South Australia and Broken Hill, NSW (but close to the SA border) is cut with washaways. Allegedly it won't reopen until Sunday 8 March.

Mondays IP will terminate at Adelaide and Wendesday's will originate at Adelaide.

The freight will certinally head via Melbourne.

 

[doc7austin]

And what happens with affected Sydney-Adelaide / Adelaide-Sydney passenger - will they be put on the Broken Hill Xplorer instead ?

 

[railfan99]

And what happens with affected Sydney-Adelaide / Adelaide-Sydney passenger - will they be put on the Broken Hill Xplorer instead ?

Based on what 'JB' has previously done, my guess is in time, the 'Indian Pacific' will operate via Tottenham Junction just out of Melbourne, Victoria and run from Perth and Adelaide via Horsham, Victoria and Albury, NSW to terminate at Goulburn, NSW. Passengers would have to use replacement road coaches between Goulburn (222km south) and Sydney. They won't be told this until on the train.

'JB" should be able to run the train all the way to Sydney but would be concerned at the possibility of a late arrival, and then an inability to depart Sydney Terminal (Central station) during a Wednesday afternoon peak period, when suburban trains are at their most frequent.

Sydney to Perth rail corridor to remain closed for weeks

The ARTC has said the Sydney to Perth rail corridor (via Broken Hill) is expected to remain closed for two to four more weeks.

www.railexpress.com.au

Statement on East-West rail corridor flood impact - network update - ARTC

The Australian Rail Track Corporation (ARTC) is restoring critical rail infrastructure following severe weather impacts while maintaining alternative freight pathways to keep Australia’s national supply chain moving. The Melbourne to […]

www.artc.com.au

 

[doc7austin]

Passengers would have to use replacement road coaches between Goulburn (222km south) and Sydney. They won't be told this until on the train.

Wouldn't it be a decent thing if JBR reaccomodated the guests onto NSW Trainlink train between Goulburn and Sydney ?

In the end its always the same. JBR only owns one single rake for the Indian Pacific - with very tight scheduled turnarounds both in Sydney and Perth.

A week has 168 hours (7 days * 24 hours).
Scheduled travel time Sydney-Perth: 69.5 hours
Schedules travel time Perth-Sydney: 87 hours
That is a total travel time: 156.5 hours
That leaves around 11.5 hours to handle the turnarounds both in Sydney and Perth. No wonder JBR prefers to evict passengers in Lithgow.

 

[railfan99]

Wouldn't it be a decent thing if JBR reaccomodated the guests onto NSW Trainlink train between Goulburn and Sydney ?

In the end its always the same. JBR only owns one single rake for the Indian Pacific - with very tight scheduled turnarounds both in Sydney and Perth.

NSW TrainLink only has five trans (2 x XPT to/from Melbourne, and 3x XPlorers to/from Canberra) a day each way Sydney-Goulburn and return. One of the latter has a Griffith train attached twice a week in each direction.

These are not at convenient times for the 'IP' to connect, but more importantly, most of these trips would have insufficient seats to accommodate 250 plus passengers from an 'IP' arrival.' On top of that, the latter could run late.

Sydney Trains has a very infrequent alternative service from Goulburn to Sydney and return. These are unreserved, but again, not at suitable times.

IIRC, 'JB' has spare sleeping and dining/lounge cars in Adelaide but it refuses to ever operate a second weekly train on the 'IP' route, even in peak Western Australian wildflower season in September.

So no way would it have put together a scratch set to operate Adelaide-Sydney this week when the original set was somewhere between Perth and Adelaide as noted in previous posts.

 

[Elwyn]

Wouldn't it be a decent thing if JBR reaccomodated the guests onto NSW Trainlink train between Goulburn and Sydney ?

In the end its always the same. JBR only owns one single rake for the Indian Pacific - with very tight scheduled turnarounds both in Sydney and Perth.

A week has 168 hours (7 days * 24 hours).
Scheduled travel time Sydney-Perth: 69.5 hours
Schedules travel time Perth-Sydney: 87 hours
That is a total travel time: 156.5 hours
That leaves around 11.5 hours to handle the turnarounds both in Sydney and Perth. No wonder JBR prefers to evict passengers in Lithgow.

I did the Indian Pacific a couple of years ago from Perth. On my trip the timings worked fine and they are not as tight as may seem in this discussion. We stopped at several places en route for significant periods, including Kalgoorlie for 4 hours (trip to the mine), Cook for about 4 hours, and again at Adelaide for about 6 hours (with a choice of local day trips). The crew all appear to be based in Adelaide and changed there (apparently doing 7 days on and 7 days off), whilst the train was serviced. There were other significant gaps in the timings to allow the many freight trains to pass and we arrived in Sydney broadly on time. There was a delay there while the train was split into 2 or 3 sections and each was shunted into separate platforms. Tiresome but we did arrive roughly on time.

 

[LesS]

Railfan99 is basically correct. JBR are reluctant to run more than one service per week into Sydney. They prefer to build this service up to 36 cars even although this requires 5 large locomotives to split the train and recouple it in Clyde sidings so that it can be handled in 3 platforms of Sydney Central. This seems to me and several railfan friends to be an expensive way to manage the train.
The Sydney Trains long distance services to Broken Hill etc are usually fully booked. JBR will not take short distance passengers to places like Broken Hill; Parkes; Peterborough; Port Augusta so why should Sydney Trains or anybody else be worried about JBR's passengers.
The terminations in Goulburn do not make much sense unless there is a temporary line blockage further north.

During the summer wet season which ends late March/early April, prospective passengers should expect wet weather delays and cancellations.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

The IP will be going via Victoria. 7th 9th and 11th March.

Wouldn't it be a decent thing if JBR reaccomodated the guests onto NSW Trainlink train between Goulburn and Sydney ?

The XPT is a 5 car train.
The IP can be 30 cars long.

In the end its always the same. JBR only owns one single rake for the Indian Pacific - with very tight scheduled turnarounds both in Sydney and Perth.

They have more than once set of carriages. They get inserted and removed as needs exist.

 

[doc7austin]

So I took the Broken Hill Xplorer last year - it was basically empty.

Is there any website, where I can track the current movement of the IP ?

Is the IP now operating all the way from Goulburn to Perth and back ?

 

[railfan99]

Is there any website, where I can track the current movement of the IP ?

Is the IP now operating all the way from Goulburn to Perth and back ?

Contrary to what I've suggested, Journey Beyond is claiming that the Australian Rail Track Corporation is prioritising freight trains that normally travel via Lithgow (or Goulburn and Cootamundra West then Forbes and Parkes NSW) to Perth, so the 'IP' is not operating east of Adelaide. In other words, it won't go to Broken Hill (washaways) but nor will it go to Goulburn or Sydney via Horsham, Victoria and Albury NSW.

This seems a cop-out by ARTC and JB, as it's not as if there's 20 freights a day each way Sydney-Perth and return that must now travel via Melbourne given the Broken Hill line is closed due to washaways at Thackaringa, just west of BHill.

I have access to a private site that shows the location of the 'IP' but unfortunately it's not public.

 

[doc7austin]

@railfan99 Thank you for your information.

Essentially, that sounds like JBR would be putting the affected the passengers onto planes between Adelaide and Perth.
Plus they might be cruising the passengers around Adelaide on the IP rake.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

Contrary to what I've suggested, Journey Beyond is claiming that the Australian Rail Track Corporation is prioritising freight trains that normally travel via Lithgow (or Goulburn and Cootamundra West then Forbes and Parkes NSW) to Perth, so the 'IP' is not operating east of Adelaide. In other words, it won't go to Broken Hill (washaways) but nor will it go to Goulburn or Sydney via Horsham, Victoria and Albury NSW.

East West Freight is rather important. Perth kind of need it.

 

[RT4038]

@railfan99 Thank you for your information.

Essentially, that sounds like JBR would be putting the affected the passengers onto planes between Adelaide and Perth.
Plus they might be cruising the passengers around Adelaide on the IP rake.

Planes Adelaide-Sydney, surely?

 

[railfan99]

Planes Adelaide-Sydney, surely?

Yes, that's highly likely.

 

[doc7austin]

yes, I mixed up the city pairs. JBR is most likely putting its passengers on Sydney-Adelaide flights.
Do we have an idea if the IP rake is running around Adelaide area in order to accomodate the Sydney-Adelaide passengers ?

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

yes, I mixed up the city pairs. JBR is most likely putting its passengers on Sydney-Adelaide flights.
Do we have an idea if the IP rake is running around Adelaide area in order to accomodate the Sydney-Adelaide passengers ?

Adelaide, more specifically Adelaide Parklands Terminal is the station and maintenance facility. It ends up there one way or another.

 

[railfan99]

Do we have an idea if the IP rake is running around Adelaide area in order to accomodate the Sydney-Adelaide passengers ?

I will check tomorrow as nothing visible yet.

Wednesday is normally the day of the week when the 'IP' arrives and departs Sydney.

 

[doc7austin]

Sure, thanks a lot @railfan99

 

[railfan99]

Sure, thanks a lot @railfan99

The 'IP' is only operating Adelaide to Perth and return. No sightseeing trips to the Barossa Valley in South Australia, or to Hall's Gap in Victoria as an alternative.

Contrary to what ARTC and/or JB contend, there's not 'congestion' on the route via Victoria ex Adelaide to Sydney. Yes, quite a few freight (intermodal and grain) trains between Junee/Cootamundra and Moss Vale, or Macarthur/Campbelltown in Sydney (from there, a separate freight track to the Sydney freight yards), but nothing an efficient train controller can't handle.

Too lazy to give an 'IP' (even just to Goulburn NSW) a path each way. JB finds it easier to simply fly annoyed passengers - no doubt in economy class. I bet no one receives an adequate refund.

 

[doc7austin]

The fair thing for JBR to do:
- Get spare loco + cars from Adelaide via Victoria to Sydney.
- Transport passengers from Sydney to Broken Hill by their train (I assume the line is open East of Broken Hill).
- Fly the passengers from Broken Hill to Adelaide.
- Put the passengers on the regular service between Adelaide and Perth.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

The 'IP' is only operating Adelaide to Perth and return. No sightseeing trips to the Barossa Valley in South Australia, or to Hall's Gap in Victoria as an alternative.

Contrary to what ARTC and/or JB contend, there's not 'congestion' on the route via Victoria ex Adelaide to Sydney. Yes, quite a few freight (intermodal and grain) trains between Junee/Cootamundra and Moss Vale, or Macarthur/Campbelltown in Sydney (from there, a separate freight track to the Sydney freight yards), but nothing an efficient train controller can't handle.

Too lazy to give an 'IP' (even just to Goulburn NSW) a path each way. JB finds it easier to simply fly annoyed passengers - no doubt in economy class. I bet no one receives an adequate refund.

They're running extras. 2MP7, 1XM5 have gone through Gheringhap this week. Last week the 3YN2, 4GP5 and 4PS6 were diverted. The 7MX4 had loading from 7YN2.

From Tottenham Triangle to Adelaide its single track with passing loops. Tottenham to Seymour is the same.

 

[doc7austin]

JBR has to move a spare loco and spare cars - just once - from Adelaide to Sydney. It should be possible to find a path within a week to transport this loco and cars via Victoria. From Sydney JBR should run a shuttle service between Sydney-Perth - in order to minimize the inconvenience for passengers, which paid AUD 5,000 - 10,000 for each ticket.

 

[railfan99]

JBR has to move a spare loco and spare cars - just once - from Adelaide to Sydney. It should be possible to find a path within a week to transport this loco and cars via Victoria. From Sydney JBR should run a shuttle service between Sydney-Perth - in order to minimize the inconvenience for passengers, which paid AUD 5,000 - 10,000 for each ticket.

I agree, but previously in disruptions, Journey Beyond has only operated the 'IP' to Goulburn, 222 kilometres south of Sydney on the main (and only) line to Melbourne.

As previously noted, given the extra distance via Melbourne (Tottenham, where there's a direct connection or chord as you'd call it to avoid any need for a reversal), JB would be scared of running late (even if it had paths agreed to by the ARTC and Sydney Trains) and hence not being allowed to depart from Sydney during the weekday (Wednesday in its case) evening peak period.

However elsewhere in its schedules, as we've agreed, there is quite a bit of slack.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2026 ==

They're running extras. 2MP7, 1XM5 have gone through Gheringhap this week. Last week the 3YN2, 4GP5 and 4PS6 were diverted. The 7MX4 had loading from 7YN2.

From Tottenham Triangle to Adelaide its single track with passing loops. Tottenham to Seymour is the same.

A very small number of extra trains.

Tottenham to Seymour, Victoria on the standard gauge line Melbourne to Sydney has some sections called 'passing lanes' rather than 'passing loops' as the 'lanes' are much longer.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

Tottenham to Seymour, Victoria on the standard gauge line Melbourne to Sydney has some sections called 'passing lanes' rather than 'passing loops' as the 'lanes' are much longer.

The only real difference between the two is one allows a simultaneous cross.

Another extra ran today with 3YM4 and 4PM6 through Gheringhap. Presumably they are running extras from Sydney into Dynon. Then there's seasonal grain traffic.
It might not seem a lot but when youv'e got 30km between passing points it does choke stuff up.

 

[railfan99]

The fair thing for JBR to do:
- Get spare loco + cars from Adelaide via Victoria to Sydney.
- Transport passengers from Sydney to Broken Hill by their train (I assume the line is open East of Broken Hill).
- Fly the passengers from Broken Hill to Adelaide.
- Put the passengers on the regular service between Adelaide and Perth.

Good, innovative suggestion, but unfortunately it'll never happen.

Yes, the line is open east of Broken Hill NSW all the way to Sydney.

Broken Hill airport cannot handle Boeing 737-800s that carry c.180 passengers, bearing in mind the 'IP' might have 250 on board IIRC.

Unfortunately given 'JB' is owned by a New York City, USA private equity outfit named Crestview Partners, its focus is on creaming as much moolah as possible from Australians and others using Crestview's growing portfolio of Australian tourism-related assets.

You extensively chronicled the difficulty you have had retrieving your hard-earned. Multiply that for every passenger now in the situation of not receiving what they booked and paid for.

Providing a true service such as you advocate is not in its DNA.

 

[doc7austin]

You have perfectly summarized the reason why I had started this thread.
I would like people to know what they get (or not get) when they book and splurge out thousands of pounds for a supposed premium train experience.

Yes, I think only the fewest people ever receive a cash refund, as the vast majority would say "it's not the fault of JBR, and I didn't mind a 6 hour long bus ride".

 

[railfan99]

You have perfectly summarized the reason why I had started this thread.
I would like people to know what they get (or not get) when they book and splurge out thousands of pounds for a supposed premium train experience.

Yes, I think only the fewest people ever receive a cash refund, as the vast majority would say "it's not the fault of JBR, and I didn't mind a 6 hour long bus ride".

Perhaps the best solution,IF you can find a date with availability (not always the case) is to book a month prior to travel and eschew the discount that's offered to those booking at least six months ahead.

Plus avoid travelling between December and March on 'The Ghan' and 'Indian Pacific' as these are probably the months with heaviest rainfall (in the tropics - applicable to 'The Ghan', and in the desert applicable to 'Indian Pacific'). 'Great Southern' (runs December-February) wasn't affected by line closures but was lucky as on one recent Friday, the Sydney-Melbourne line was closed for 90 minutes near Bowral (south of Sydney) as heavy rainfall built up at a tunnel mouth.

Booking close to the date of travel won't suit all visitors from the UK. When I travel to your countries and Europe, I like to book three months ahead for accommodation and sometimes more for rail journeys booked using a Eurailpass, so I understand the sentiment of wanting to have things locked in.

If worst comes to worst, be like the OP and nag 'JB' for a complete refund (or adequate compensation) if your plans are mucked up. This takes much effort.