CAF class 197 Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[BillStampy]

Finally had a try of Standard Plus section today, on 117. A very nice surprise, loved the comfy seats and window alignment. How many SP sets are there out there? Are they going to convert them back to standard at some point? The 2+1 is lovely but surely a few more seats could help with capacity if they have abandoned the concept?

113-126, so 13 units. I'm uncertain as to whether they'll get rid of it but in the long term I suspect that'll be the case.

 

[tfw756rider]

113-126, so 13 units. I'm uncertain as to whether they'll get rid of it but in the long term I suspect that'll be the case.

197113-197126 is 14 units

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Feb 2026 ==

The 2+1 is lovely but surely a few more seats could help with capacity if they have abandoned the concept?

197113-197126 have 174 seats (158 2+2, 16 2+1), compared to 188 seats all in 2+2 in 197101-197112.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Feb 2026 ==

Realtime Trains | 5T97 1046 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Holyhead Car. M.D. | 27/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 5T97 1046 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Holyhead Car. M.D. on 27/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

What's this then?

 

[Rhydgaled]

Finally had a try of Standard Plus section today, on 117. A very nice surprise, loved the comfy seats and window alignment.

Have they changed the layout of Standard Plus compared to the original seat plans (when it was expected to be a First Class section, rather than 'Standard Plus')? I ask because, on those original plans, only two of the four table bays in 'First'/'Std+' are aligned with the windows.

 

[VT 390]

Have they changed the layout of Standard Plus compared to the original seat plans (when it was expected to be a First Class section, rather than 'Standard Plus')? I ask because, on those original plans, only two of the four table bays in 'First'/'Std+' are aligned with the windows.

The layout is the same as it would have been if the section was kept as first class.

 

[Jez]

Finally had a try of Standard Plus section today, on 117. A very nice surprise, loved the comfy seats and window alignment. How many SP sets are there out there? Are they going to convert them back to standard at some point? The 2+1 is lovely but surely a few more seats could help with capacity if they have abandoned the concept?

I believe 197113-197126 are standard plus. So 14 sets.

Its unclear what is going to happen with them. At the very least they could remove the branding to avoid confusion!

Edit -sorry see it was answered already!

 

[tfw756rider]

Realtime Trains | 5T97 1046 Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Holyhead Car. M.D. | 27/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 5T97 1046 departure from Machynlleth Carr. Sdgs to Holyhead Car. M.D. on 27/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This ran (after the Aberystwyths) - does anyone in here know what it was operated with?

 

[Gordonman]

This ran (after the Aberystwyths) - does anyone in here know what it was operated with?

It can only be 197029 and 197030

5T97 was a move from Mach - Chester followed by a 5T98 Chester - Holyhead.No allocations in the system.

 

[sd0733]

This ran (after the Aberystwyths) - does anyone in here know what it was operated with?

197022 and 027 are now back at Holyhead so must have worked it. 029 and 030 at Mac

 

[Roger B]

I was on a train from Shrewsbury to Crewe today, and saw some 197s parked up in Crewe Yard. I took some photos, but only this one was half reasonable, and even then didn't capture all the units.
Does anyone know which units are stored in Crewe Yard, please - many thanks.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I was on a train from Shrewsbury to Crewe today, and saw some 197s parked up in Crewe Yard. I took some photos, but only this one was half reasonable, and even then didn't capture all the units.
Does anyone know which units are stored in Crewe Yard, please - many thanks.
View attachment 199521

Crewe South Yard has been hosting 197023, 197025, 197032, 197038 & 197039.
Is is discussed about a month back on this thread but I have not found it yet.
They are the as yet unused ERTMS fitted 197/0s.

AND
In case anyone is tempted, I reckon that is a CCTV / security camera unit on the ballast between the front of the left hand cab and the the photographers position (on a train) ?.

 

[Roger B]

Crewe South Yard has been hosting 197023, 197025, 197032, 197038 & 197039.
Is is discussed about a month back on this thread but I have not found it yet.
They are the as yet unused ERTMS fitted 197/0s.

AND
In case anyone is tempted, I reckon that is a CCTV / security camera unit on the ballast between the front of the left hand cab and the the photographers position (on a train) ?.

Many thanks Peter,

There looked to be about five sets there. A bit of a long shot, perhaps, but any thoughts on how confident I can be that there's been no set swaps in the past month or so since this was reported?

 

[Gordonman]

Any ideas what has worked 5B42 from Crewe South Yard - Crewe LNWR this morning please?

There is also a 5B43 return working scheduled to depart LNWR at 16.11.

Also a 5Z37 Holyhead - Chester has worked earlier.Presume this will have been 197037

 

[Peter Sarf]

Many thanks Peter,

There looked to be about five sets there. A bit of a long shot, perhaps, but any thoughts on how confident I can be that there's been no set swaps in the past month or so since this was reported?

Not very certain.

I believe those units have not moved. But 197029 + 197030 have been there. Also 197040 has been there (over Christmas irc).

You might be lucky an a report from someone who knows.

I had a fly past on the WCML - I could see probably four there through the trees.

 

[Roger B]

Not very certain.

I believe those units have not moved. But 197029 + 197030 have been there. Also 197040 has been there (over Christmas irc).

You might be lucky an a report from someone who knows.

I had a fly past on the WCML - I could see probably four there through the trees.

Thanks Peter,
While it's tempting to red-line a couple of units, I think I'll leave them for now - unless anyone else can confirm which sets are there?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Thanks Peter,
While it's tempting to red-line a couple of units, I think I'll leave them for now - unless anyone else can confirm which sets are there?

I agree, this is the problem I have.

Needs to be a report from very close to the date/time of passing.

 

[Roger B]

I agree, this is the problem I have.

Needs to be a report from very close to the date/time of passing.

Absolutely!

 

[Bevan Price]

Crewe South Yard has been hosting 197023, 197025, 197032, 197038 & 197039.
Is is discussed about a month back on this thread but I have not found it yet.
They are the as yet unused ERTMS fitted 197/0s.

Wouldn't it be better to use them occasionally rather than leave them gathering dust & rust, etc? (swapping with some already in use) ?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Wouldn't it be better to use them occasionally rather than leave them gathering dust & rust, etc? (swapping with some already in use) ?

I agree. They have done that with the rest. I have had the feeling that ones like 023, 025 and 032 might have got sidelined rather than accepted. For 038, 039, 040 & 041 (not yet delivered) maybe they are just too new. There has been a shortage of spares so even non ERTMS 197s have been laid up.

 

[40029 Saxonia]

I agree. They have done that with the rest. I have had the feeling that ones like 023, 025 and 032 might have got sidelined rather than accepted. For 038, 039, 040 & 041 (not yet delivered) maybe they are just too new. There has been a shortage of spares so even non ERTMS 197s have been laid up.

From earlier posts these six (plus 041 not yet delivered) have not yet been accepted by TfW. I believe that all but one have run on the Cambrian with ROG crews but not since last year. Occasionally one can be seen on the TfW depot opposite. 040 was there for a while in January

 

[Gordonman]

Today's out of service units are -

197005
197008
197009
197010
197014
197022
(197023)
197024
(197025)
197027
197029
197030
(197032)
(197038)
(197039)
(197040)
(197041)
197045
197046
197047
197048
197051
197113
197117
197123
197125
197126

The only positive I can see is that 197003 has re-entered service today although other units have been stopped.

Units continue to be moved to/from Crewe South Yard and Crewe LNWR depot (5B42 and 5B43)

 

[Caaardiff]

While that is quite a list, there's 49 units in services for 49 diagrams.

197117 came out in service this afternoon.

 

[Jez]

While that is quite a list, there's 49 units in services for 49 diagrams.

197117 came out in service this afternoon.

3 of the 49 i think were covering for MK4's. Plus 2 on Bidston but I think they are included in the 49 diagrams.

I see a pair of 153s were covering a Pembroke Dock-Cardiff diagram. A couple of short forms on Manchester's as well but otherwise everything seems covered.

 

[Gordonman]

A couple of moves today

197023 5T23 Crewe South Yard - Chester TMD
197024 5T24 Holyhead - Chester TMD

 

[Peter Sarf]

A couple of moves today

197023 5T23 Crewe South Yard - Chester TMD
197024 5T24 Holyhead - Chester TMD

It feels like some progress might be happening with the ERTMS 197s ?.
(given also 197003 has this week made it back into service)

 

[sd0733]

A couple of moves today

197023 5T23 Crewe South Yard - Chester TMD
197024 5T24 Holyhead - Chester TMD

197023 now showing on TfW systems with that move its first run so looks to have been accepted.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2026 ==

It feels like some progress might be happening with the ERTMS 197s ?.
(given also 197003 has this week made it back into service)

Looks to be just replacing other ERTMS sets dropping into store at Holyhead.

 

[Peter Sarf]

197023 now showing on TfW systems with that move its first run so looks to have been accepted.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Mar 2026 ==


Looks to be just replacing other ERTMS sets dropping into store at Holyhead.

In which case slowly I cop then at Cardiff Central

 

[wythallpaul]

197110 made it to Birmingham International (BHI) for the 1st Time this Evening (12/03/26) on 1I26.

Clarification:- 1I26 1536 Holyhead (HHD) to Birmingham International (BHI).

All 26 TfW 3-Car Cl197's have now Worked into the West Midlands.

1st ones were 197109 & 197124 (Separately) on 17/02/25 so it's Taken just over a Year for all 26 to make it.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

197110 made it to Birmingham International (BHI) for the 1st Time this Evening (12/03/26) on 1I26.

Clarification:- 1I26 1536 Holyhead (HHD) to Birmingham International (BHI).

All 26 TfW 3-Car Cl197's have now Worked into the West Midlands.

1st ones were 197109 & 197124 (Separately) on 17/02/25 so it's Taken just over a Year for all 26 to make it.

Interesting statistics.

 

[wythallpaul]

Number of Days that Each 3-Car Cl197 has Worked into Birmingham International (BHI):-
11 Days - 197109, 197117 & 197122.
10 Days - 197124.
9 Days - 197111, 197118 & 197120.
8 Days - 197102 & 197103.
7 Days - 197104, 197105, 197106, 197108 & 197116.
6 Days - 197119, 197121 & 197125.
5 Days - 197101, 197112, 197113 & 197123.
4 Days - 197107, 197114 & 197115.
2 Days - 197126.
1 Day - 197110.
All According to RTT (Realtime Trains) - Dates are Available.

 

[Peter Sarf]

A couple of moves today

197023 5T23 Crewe South Yard - Chester TMD
197024 5T24 Holyhead - Chester TMD

I have not noticed 197023 in service since that move (on Thursday 12/03/2026). But perhaps it takes a while to commission ? - I hope I am just not being patient enough !.