Greater Anglia Penalty Fare

[lacou37]

Hi everyone,

I was due to travel from Ipswich to Stratford this morning on a valid Advance Single ticket. Unfortunately, I fell asleep which led to me missing my stop. Upon arrival at Liverpool Street (the next and final stop), when attempting to exit the station my ticket did not work and I therefore was directed to a chap for further assistance.

I was essentially told that I had to pay a penalty fare of £57.30 charge to exit the station, and no details were provided to me regarding appeal process or the fact that I actually could have 21 days to pay this penalty. I was already running late due to missing my stop so I just paid the fare to continue my journey. I was intending to appeal on medical grounds as I have just started a new medication which does make me quite drowsy and hence me falling asleep!

Because I was never given a unique notice number and my details were never recorded, I am now unable to log into the Penalty Services website to start an official appeal. I have attached the only piece of paper I was provided once I had made payment.

I appreciate any advice that you might be able to provide me with in this situation - thank you for reading.

 

[z444z]

The medical reason you gave should, in my opinion, be a fairly compelling reason for the appeals panel to cancel the penalty fare, but with a “compelling reasons” argument it’s basically their discretion whether they accept it. If you can give medical evidence of this though I think your chances would be pretty good.

However what you’ve shown in that photo isn’t a penalty fare notice, it’s a receipt for your payment. Are you certain you weren’t given anything else?

 

[lacou37]

The medical reason you gave should, in my opinion, be a fairly compelling reason for the appeals panel to cancel the penalty fare, but with a “compelling reasons” argument it’s basically their discretion whether they accept it. If you can give medical evidence of this though I think your chances would be pretty good.

However what you’ve shown in that photo isn’t a penalty fare notice, it’s a receipt for your payment. Are you certain you weren’t given anything else?

Absolutely certain - this was the only piece of documentation I was given.

 

[30907]

Absolutely certain - this was the only piece of documentation I was given.

It's clearly intended to be a PF of the Anytime Single SRA-LST plus £50.

I must leave others to decide if this is worth pursuing.

 

[tatitiliti]

Hi everyone,

I was due to travel from Ipswich to Stratford this morning on a valid Advance Single ticket. Unfortunately, I fell asleep which led to me missing my stop. Upon arrival at Liverpool Street (the next and final stop), when attempting to exit the station my ticket did not work and I therefore was directed to a chap for further assistance.

I was essentially told that I had to pay a penalty fare of £57.30 charge to exit the station, and no details were provided to me regarding appeal process or the fact that I actually could have 21 days to pay this penalty. I was already running late due to missing my stop so I just paid the fare to continue my journey. I was intending to appeal on medical grounds as I have just started a new medication which does make me quite drowsy and hence me falling asleep!

Because I was never given a unique notice number and my details were never recorded, I am now unable to log into the Penalty Services website to start an official appeal. I have attached the only piece of paper I was provided once I had made payment.

I appreciate any advice that you might be able to provide me with in this situation - thank you for reading. not being issued with the correct documentation (i.e. PFN) sufficient grounds for a technical appeal?

Hi everyone,

I was due to travel from Ipswich to Stratford this morning on a valid Advance Single ticket. Unfortunately, I fell asleep which led to me missing my stop. Upon arrival at Liverpool Street (the next and final stop), when attempting to exit the station my ticket did not work and I therefore was directed to a chap for further assistance.

I was essentially told that I had to pay a penalty fare of £57.30 charge to exit the station, and no details were provided to me regarding appeal process or the fact that I actually could have 21 days to pay this penalty. I was already running late due to missing my stop so I just paid the fare to continue my journey. I was intending to appeal on medical grounds as I have just started a new medication which does make me quite drowsy and hence me falling asleep!

Because I was never given a unique notice number and my details were never recorded, I am now unable to log into the Penalty Services website to start an official appeal. I have attached the only piece of paper I was provided once I had made payment.

I appreciate any advice that you might be able to provide me with in this situation - thank you for reading.

I would imagine that not being issued with the correct documentation (i.e. the PFN) would be sufficient grounds for an appeal in itself.

 

[z444z]

It's clearly intended to be a PF of the Anytime Single SRA-LST plus £50.

Which isn’t a valid penalty fare anyway, it has to be issued from the boarding station. You’d think not being given the correct documentation would be a clear cut appeal but with no proof that you weren’t given the PFN I’m not sure odds of success would be very good.

I’ll look at this in more detail later re fare charged and stuff, or others can, but I think an appeal is certainly worth pursuing here on multiple grounds. The difficulty is figuring out how to appeal without the reference number…

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Which isn’t a valid penalty fare anyway, it has to be issued from the boarding station.

Looks like the OP has travelled beyond the validity of their Advance Single ticket held (Ipswich -> Stratford). So, what details should have been shown on any PFN, and what amount(s) should the OP have actually been requested to pay, if not the £57.30?

 

[saismee]

Looks like the OP has travelled beyond the validity of their Advance Single ticket held (Ipswich -> Stratford). So, what details should have been shown on any PFN, and what amount(s) should the OP have actually been requested to pay, if not the £57.30?

It would be 57.30 for a PFN and the receipt is for sale of a ticket and not a PFN. Is it possible that the inspector intended this to be a PFN paid on the spot and miscommunicated it? And is this the correct method of doing it? 7.30 is correct for the journey taken, if they decided to sell a ticket instead of issue a PFN.

 

[RPI]

With the system that we use at GWR (Revenue Shield Mobile and TTK Avocet), in order to do a full paid PF we still have to issue a notice - as full paid, then we take payment through TTK as a sundry - which looks like that receipt is for, but both documents are still generated and issued.

 

[Johny Boy]

The amount is right for a PFN from Stratford to Liverpool Street and payment *could* have been taken on the spot, but without a physical PFN itself, it can't be valid. Unless that is, the passenger left without accepting the PFN?!?

 

[z444z]

Looks like the OP has travelled beyond the validity of their Advance Single ticket held (Ipswich -> Stratford). So, what details should have been shown on any PFN, and what amount(s) should the OP have actually been requested to pay, if not the £57.30?

The regulations do not permit a penalty fare to be issued from anywhere other than the station at which the passenger boarded the train (with one exception that isn’t relevant here). The OP has been undercharged but that still makes the penalty fare invalid and an appeals panel that followed the law would cancel it.

 

[Johny Boy]

The regulations do not permit a penalty fare to be issued from anywhere other than the station at which the passenger boarded the train (with one exception that isn’t relevant here).

Just checking for my own sanity, but when the NRCoT states:
13.4 If you travel beyond the destination shown on the Ticket, you will be treated as having joined the train without a valid Ticket for the additional part of your journey.
Doesn't this then supersede the original boarding station?

 

[blimmo]

Just checking for my own sanity, but when the NRCoT states:
13.4 If you travel beyond the destination shown on the Ticket, you will be treated as having joined the train without a valid Ticket for the additional part of your journey.
Doesn't this then supersede the original boarding station?

I don't think the NRCoT (a contract) can override the penalty fares regulations (law) unless it is just changing the definition of "boarding station". I guess it depends on the precise definition of boarding station in the regs.

I think we have seen a case before of someone at the LST barriers just charging someone the value of a penalty fare rather than issuing it properly which is definitely illegal. I suspect the transaction has just been entered completely separately with a value the member of staff remembers from previous PFs and no penalty fare was issued at all.

Would it be possible to ask the appeals service if they can find the PF on their system somehow? If they can't and the transaction was for no ticket at all perhaps OP could dispute the transaction with their card provider.

 

[z444z]

Just checking for my own sanity, but when the NRCoT states:
13.4 If you travel beyond the destination shown on the Ticket, you will be treated as having joined the train without a valid Ticket for the additional part of your journey.

Interesting. Will let others comment on how that might interact with penalty fare legislation. That is weirdly worded, thanks for pointing it out! This might be deserving of its own thread actually if you’d like to make one?

 

[lacou37]

Just wanted to check/clarify something. My understanding is that in order to issue a penalty fare, you need someone's personal details so that the notice has their name on it? If I am correct, I just want to again state that I was not asked for any personal details in relation to this.

 

[z444z]

Just wanted to check/clarify something. My understanding is that in order to issue a penalty fare, you need someone's personal details so that the notice has their name on it? If I am correct, I just want to again state that I was not asked for any personal details in relation to this.

My understanding is that you are required to provide your details if requested in relation to a proposed penalty fare but there is no requirement for that to happen. If the person pays on the spot like you did I believe personal details often are not requested.

 

[furlong]

A PF can be issued without asking for name, address, date of birth. Obviously only if it is paid on the spot!
We have threads before where this was alleged to happen - no PF notice issued.
Request CCTV. Appeal on the grounds it wasn't issued in accordance with the regulations.

5(2) Where a collector charges a penalty fare to a person under paragraph (1), the collector must
provide that person with the following information in writing at the time the penalty fare is charged—
(a) a statement that the person is being charged a penalty fare;
...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Feb 2026 ==

Doesn't this then supersede the original boarding station?

It would make a nonsense of the regulations.

“the boarding station” means—
(a) the station at which the person boarded the train;

6(2) This paragraph applies if, at the time when, and at the station where, the passenger boarded the train—
(a) there were no facilities in operation for the sale of a travel ticket for that passenger’s journey;
(b) the requirements for the display of notices specified in regulation 8 were not satisfied;

There'd be no requirement for notices and facilities where the passenger really boarded the train but rather somewhere they didn't!

 

[lacou37]

I don't think the NRCoT (a contract) can override the penalty fares regulations (law) unless it is just changing the definition of "boarding station". I guess it depends on the precise definition of boarding station in the regs.

I think we have seen a case before of someone at the LST barriers just charging someone the value of a penalty fare rather than issuing it properly which is definitely illegal. I suspect the transaction has just been entered completely separately with a value the member of staff remembers from previous PFs and no penalty fare was issued at all.

Would it be possible to ask the appeals service if they can find the PF on their system somehow? If they can't and the transaction was for no ticket at all perhaps OP could dispute the transaction with their card provider.

This is really helpful. I have just completed the online form to obtain the PF notice and will keep you posted when I hear back.

 

[AlterEgo]

Just checking for my own sanity, but when the NRCoT states:
13.4 If you travel beyond the destination shown on the Ticket, you will be treated as having joined the train without a valid Ticket for the additional part of your journey.
Doesn't this then supersede the original boarding station?

No. The Penalty Fares Regulations are statute and stipulate the boarding station. The bit you omitted from the Condition is they are entitled to use Condition 9 which say you may be penalty fared, and of course when they penalty fare a passenger they have to follow the Regulations. Which stipulate the boarding station.

 

[lacou37]

Hi everyone,

Just an update on me contacting IRCAS. I have provided the copy of the receipt I was given and also answered their questions. I completed the initial form with my personal details (again noting that I didn't provide them when paying this penalty fare):

Good afternoon,

I am having trouble locating a case for you with the details given, please could you provide me with some more details such as:

Your full name, full address and postcode given to the inspector, transport company you travelled with and the destination to and from, also the issue date of the fine.

Can you please send us a copy of the penalty if you still have the details.

 

[furlong]

The fact they are struggling to find any reference to it might itself be evidence it was not issued in accordance with the regulations.

While trying to get IRCAS to escalate the problem, I'd suggest also contacting the train company directly following its complaints procedure. It may need to be investigated as an allegation of misconduct.

 

[Egg Centric]

Not quite at this point imo but... If they can't find the ticket then not sure how they could defend a chargeback?

 

[furlong]

Remember that a receipt must be provided when paying a Penalty Fare.

If the PF was issued correctly, it should of course be an absolutely trivial matter for them to pull up the details of the PF associated with the receipt for its payment!

So there's a deserved element of astonishment at the reply received.

 

[lacou37]

Hi again everyone!

IRCAS has now been able to find my PF reference number. I am planning to appeal - could you please let me know your thoughts on the below and I'll submit. I will attach copies of my prescription and the side effects. Appreciate all the help so far:

I am appealing this Penalty Fare on the grounds of medical mitigation, procedural non-compliance with the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018, and a lack of opportunity to rectify a genuine first-time error.

I was traveling on a valid Advance Single ticket to Stratford. This is the first time in my history of rail travel that such an incident has occurred. I have recently started an increased dose of prescribed medication and was currently managing this with associated anemia. These combined factors caused a known side effect of fatigue, which led to me unintentionally falling asleep and missing my stop at Stratford. I had no intent to avoid the fare, as evidenced by my pre-purchased ticket.

Upon being intercepted, I immediately explained the mistake. I would have been more than happy to board the next train back to Stratford to complete my journey as intended. However, I was not given this option or any opportunity to rectify the human error; instead, I was led to believe that I must pay a penalty immediately.

The authorised collector failed to follow the mandatory requirements set out in Regulation 5(2) of the 2018 Regulations:

Notice Failure: No formal Penalty Fare Notice (PFN) was issued at the time; I was only provided with a card payment receipt.

Statutory rights: I was not informed of my right to a 21-day payment period, nor was I provided with any details on how to appeal the penalty fare.

Failure to Record Details: The officer did not ask for my name or address, which is a requirement for a legally valid notice. I was only able to obtain a reference number by proactively contacting IRCAS after the fact.

Given the medical context, my clean travel history, and the failure of the officer to provide the legally required documentation or a 21-day payment window, I request a full refund of the £50.00 penalty.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi again everyone!

IRCAS has now been able to find my PF reference number. I am planning to appeal - could you please let me know your thoughts on the below and I'll submit. I will attach copies of my prescription and the side effects. Appreciate all the help so far:

I am appealing this Penalty Fare on the grounds of medical mitigation, procedural non-compliance with the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018, and a lack of opportunity to rectify a genuine first-time error.

I was traveling on a valid Advance Single ticket to Stratford. This is the first time in my history of rail travel that such an incident has occurred. I have recently started an increased dose of prescribed medication and was currently managing this with associated anemia. These combined factors caused a known side effect of fatigue, which led to me unintentionally falling asleep and missing my stop at Stratford. I had no intent to avoid the fare, as evidenced by my pre-purchased ticket.

Upon being intercepted, I immediately explained the mistake. I would have been more than happy to board the next train back to Stratford to complete my journey as intended. However, I was not given this option or any opportunity to rectify the human error; instead, I was led to believe that I must pay a penalty immediately.

The authorised collector failed to follow the mandatory requirements set out in Regulation 5(2) of the 2018 Regulations:

Notice Failure: No formal Penalty Fare Notice (PFN) was issued at the time; I was only provided with a card payment receipt.

Statutory rights: I was not informed of my right to a 21-day payment period, nor was I provided with any details on how to appeal the penalty fare.

Failure to Record Details: The officer did not ask for my name or address, which is a requirement for a legally valid notice. I was only able to obtain a reference number by proactively contacting IRCAS after the fact.

Given the medical context, my clean travel history, and the failure of the officer to provide the legally required documentation or a 21-day payment window, I request a full refund of the £50.00 penalty.

Remove all the "I fell asleep" stuff and mitigation. Appeal solely on the grounds the Penalty Fare was unlawfully issued. No point window dressing with stuff they are not lawfully bound to accept as a defence.

You also need to include the most obvious grounds for appeal as stated earlier in the thread; it wasn't issued from the boarding station.

 

[z444z]

They don’t care about your clean travel history, and for a first stage appeal I wouldn’t bother with the medical stuff either. Focus on the fact that it doesn’t comply with the regulations because it wasn’t issued from the boarding station and that you were not actually given a penalty fare notice, only a receipt.

Post a new draft when you’re ready and we can give feedback on that

 

[lacou37]

I have redrafted the below - hope this is better. I must admit I'm a little confused by the boarding station element. I'm seeing a lot of conflicting evidence online - could someone help with the exact wording of how to approach that aspect of the appeal?

I am appealing this Penalty Fare due to significant procedural non-compliance with the Railways (Penalty Fares) Regulations 2018 and the denial of my statutory right to a 21-day payment period.

Under Regulation 5(2)(h), a collector is legally required to provide a written statement at the time of the charge, explaining that the passenger has 21 days to either pay or appeal the notice. In my case, I was given no such information or alternative. It was implied that I to pay the charge on the spot and I was led to believe that immediate payment was a mandatory requirement for being allowed to exit the station. This pressured environment bypassed the statutory "21-day rule" and prevented me from considering my options or preparing an appeal before funds were taken.

In addition I was not provided with a formal Penalty Fare Notice (PFN) at the time of the charge, only a card payment receipt.
Failure to Record Details: Contrary to standard enforcement procedures and Regulation 13, the inspector failed to ask for my name, address, or postcode. This meant I had no formal record of the penalty until I proactively requested a reference number from IRCAS later.

Because the collector failed to provide the legally required written notice and denied me the statutory 21-day window for payment or appeal, this penalty was issued incorrectly. I request a full refund of the £50.00 penalty fare element.

 

[AlterEgo]

Is there a reason why you still aren't mentioning that the penalty fare was not issued from your boarding station? That's a stonewall reason to appeal it.

Else all you have is your word that the inspector violated your rights and your word that you didn't receive the Notice.

 

[furlong]

Failure to Record Details: Contrary to standard enforcement procedures and Regulation 13, the inspector failed to ask for my name, address, or postcode.

This is misreading regulation 13. It is not contrary to standard enforcement procedures when the notice is paid on the spot.

Requirement for a person to give name and address
13.—(1) Where a collector proposes to charge a person a penalty fare under regulation 5(1), that person must, subject to regulation 10(4), provide their name and address [F19, and, in respect of England, their date of birth,] when required to do so by the collector.

The collector is not required to ask for this information under Regulation 13. Rather, under that regulation, if the inspector chooses to ask you, you are the one bearing the requirement to provide it.

Have you asked for CCTV yet, to see if it shows what was printed and / or handed over to you? You can then reference that request (which will probably still be being processed) in your appeal (i.e. do some of their work for them).

 

[z444z]

May I ask if this appeal has been generated by AI? No worries either way but it needs some work! I can look at it later tonight or tomorrow and suggest some wording