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Correct me if I'm wrong because I don't know the era and area well, but my impression is that around the 1980s, Lincoln St Marks was close to becoming the main station in Lincoln: it had the London services via Newark since the traditional route to London via Grantham had closed. How did Central manage to survive?
Obviously it was always the right decision to concentrate services on the more central station with better facilities, but this was an era of cost-cutting so I'm curious if anything swayed British Rail to make the right call and sell off St Marks. Easier to reconnect the junctions that way? Better turnaround facilities in a time with many more loco-hauled trains?
Even in though days the combined Central & St Marks passenger service would have been too much for
St Marks as it only had 2 platforms compared to Central which in those days still had 7.
That doesn't take into account there were a lot more Oil trains through St Marks which didn't have
through centre roads unlike like Central which did.
Lincoln Central is far better located than St Marks was. It was a simple matter of reinstating the curve from Boultham Junction to West Holmes Junction to connect the Newark line to Lincoln Central. It really made sense to consolidate passengers services into one station in the same town.
I used to pass through (and sometimes change at) St Marks in the late 70's and it always felt somewhat 'spartan' so it made sense to me to focus on Central. (although, as I recollect it there was a centre road - but perhaps it was a stabling siding for DMU's)
I used to pass through (and sometimes change at) St Marks in the late 70's and it always felt somewhat 'spartan' so it made sense to me to focus on Central. (although, as I recollect it there was a centre road - but perhaps it was a stabling siding for DMU's)
It would also been have difficult to build a north facing curve off the avoiding line for Sheffield trains to reach St. Marks - the Ruston Works were still operational then I think. St. Marks station was a miserable affair as I recall - it had lost its overall roof in the 50s and the main portico was jacked up with scaffolding.
Yes, St Marks had two through tracks, which were just terminating sidings in the DMU era.
That's sort of my question-given that St Marks was smaller and the land presumably worth less as further from the town centre, how did BR avoid deciding to sell Central off? Right ethos of wanting to serve the city centre properly, or operationally not practical to concentrate services on the smaller station? Certainly I'm very grateful to whoever decided not to, it was obviously the right call. (Something similar did happen around the same time, though, Rotherham got PTE funding to reopen Central and Masborough was closed, although there the land wasn't sold off.)
Yes, St Marks had two through tracks, which were just terminating sidings in the DMU era.
That's sort of my question-given that St Marks was smaller and the land presumably worth less as further from the town centre, how did BR avoid deciding to sell Central off? Right ethos of wanting to serve the city centre properly, or operationally not practical to concentrate services on the smaller station? Certainly I'm very grateful to whoever decided not to, it was obviously the right call. (Something similar did happen around the same time, though, Rotherham got PTE funding to reopen Central and Masborough was closed, although there the land wasn't sold off.)
Even in the worst depths of the Beeching and Thatcher eras, BR rarely found itself being forced to sell off operational land just to gain some money. Even if the DoT had tried to push it, I am sure that it would have been possible for BR to produce figures showing that keeping St Mark’s was a worse deal than keeping Central. In this case that probably wouldn’t have been difficult and could well have been true.
A chord could have been built off the avoiding line to meet up with the route into St Marks to allow trains from Sheffield and Doncaster to reach St Marks, but much other work would have been needed.
There were only two platforms (plus two sidings in between.. One of them could have been sacrificed to make a third platfrom I suppose.
A footbridge or subway would probably be needed, instead of having all passengers for Platform 2 (and presamably any new middle platfrom) crossing at track level.
Ther station buildings were in poor condition.
Pelham Junction would have had to be modified to allow trains from St Marks to access the Joint Line towards Sleaford.
One plus would have been that fewer trains would have had to cross the High Street by level crossings, as St Marks was west of the High Street and Central is east of it, but there are very many more trains to and from the west.
My own proposal would have been to keep the avoiding line, run a spur from the Newark line to face west onto it, and another over the trackbed of the former Grantham route from where it passed under the avoiding line into Central station. Close St Marks, and the section from Central to the Boultham triangle.
Freight traffic would continue to use the avoiding line, passenger trains would all run into the east end of Central (reversing if continuing) and all the level crossings would be eliminated. Note that the (then four, now two) bay platforms face east.
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I'm not sure the sidings were ever through tracks. There were just two over the level crossing.
(note the footcrossing in the fopregrojnd - the only access to Platform 2 (on which the photographer is standing)
It should be remebered that until 1966 the connection across the level crossing towards Pelham Junction actually saw very little use. St Marks was the terminus of the Midland (and later LMS) line from Nottingham. The connection to Pelham Junction was built by the MSLR (later GCR) to give access to the Midland as well as the GNR at Central, but trains from the Grimsby direction mainly used the GNR station (Central) as it provided an onward route to the MSLR route at Gainsborough (and later the now closed route to Retford and Tuxford) And of course in the Grouping the GCR and GNR ended up in the same comapny, and the Midland in a different one.
It was only with the closure of so many lines in Lincolnshire, notably the Lincoln to Grantham line in 1966 and the East Lincolnshire (Grimsby to Spalding) route in 1970, that regular trains ran over thsi connection, with a Cleethorpes - Lincoln - Newark service (and occasional through services to London) replacing both the Cleethorpes - Peterborough and Lincoln - Grantham services. The curve at Newark connecting the Lincoln line to the ECML at Newark Northgate was put in to enable these services - otherwise a change of station in Newark would have been needed.
That's really interesting and thanks for all the information, I didn't realise the St Marks buildings were such a mess. The restoration seems to have been quite extensive looking at photos now. For sure it was a more basic station with no footbridge (it doesn't seem like there was room for there to ever have been one inside the roof) and the platforms also seem to have been slightly shorter, although long enough to take HSTs. It apparently had a siding that could have been pressed into service as a west-facing bay, but I'm not sure if it ever was.
Making Lincoln Central a reversing-only station like Norwich would have been a real nuisance notwithstanding that level crossing, but I agree it's an odd piece of history that the bays face east because once more traffic came that way. Although it's hard to add west-facing bays when you've got an 11th century church in the way.
It’s also worth note that the land sales for St Marks would probably have been more valuable. The station became a shopping centre, and the trackbed has been fully built on. From the perspective of locals, it also opened up a corner of the city that was previously very blocked.
In contrast, while Central itself might have been valuable, the BR landholdings west of the station were very limited. And then, having crossed Bradford Wharf East, access to Holmes Yard would still have been needed.
Finally, St Marks is barely 2 minutes walk from Central (level crossing permitting!). When Debenhams opened their city centre store, they did so adjacent to St Marks and the whole shopping centre was an extension of the city centre (and its car park used as access to the city centre).
It was May 11 1985 St Marks closed; quite an eventful day for Lincoln as City were playing at Bradford when the fire broke out at Valley Parade. Unexpectly found myself on the last Nottingham train; unexpectly as I had a railtour ticket but an accident on the WCML had seen the railtour cancelled.
As well as St. Marks having only two platforms, those platforms were only around 120m long. The London Inter City trains did not fit in the platforms, which could not be significantly extended due to the River Witham.
For much of Lincoln's railway history the most important route was the avoiding line that carried large numbers of coal trains off the LDECR and onwards to Whitemoor and New England. It was the closure of the avoiding line in 1982, at the same time as Spalding-Whitemoor, that opened up the possibility of station rationalisation in Lincoln.
The West Holmes/Pyewipe/Boultham Junctions triangle is basically the western end of the old avoiding line.
St Marks station's "place in the sun" was a brief one, from when the East Lincs route closed in 1970 to the end of the loco hauled Kings Cross trains in 1982. Having used both stations I'm not surprised that the rationalisation resulted in keeping Central and closing St Marks.
I really struggle to find anyone who thought that the station rationalisation in Lincoln was a bad idea. Central is more than adequate for modern day traffic levels, even if it could do with a modern, wider, footbridge.
The loss of the avoiding line was unfortunate with the benefit of hindsight but made sense at the time.
As well as St. Marks having only two platforms, those platforms were only around 120m long. The London Inter City trains did not fit in the platforms, which could not be significantly extended due to the River Witham.
If I remember the HST in the Grimsby Direction fouled the high street level crossing during in the stop. I don’t recall if it did in the London direction.
I was very young when st marks closed. However I only recall 1 train per day from Central - Grimsby
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I really struggle to find anyone who thought that the station rationalisation in Lincoln was a bad idea. Central is more than adequate for modern day traffic levels, even if it could do with a modern, wider, footbridge.
The loss of the avoiding line was unfortunate with the benefit of hindsight but made sense at the time.
Agreed that is probably the biggest mistake they made. Not sure if the football stadium Stacey West stand could have got built if it survived. However now the level crossing are not such an issue. Brayfords traffic tends to use the university bridge and the road alterations at Tentecroft Street have moved most of the high street demand.
Indeed. Still amazing how many wait rather then use the bridge. I think Brayford is actually one way now and the high street is effectively closed. (Traffic still uses it to access certain parts of the high street, however I am sure if it was closed it could all go southbound to the lights.
Indeed. Still amazing how many wait rather then use the bridge. I think Brayford is actually one way now and the high street is effectively closed. (Traffic still uses it to access certain parts of the high street, however I am sure if it was closed it could all go southbound to the lights.
Sorting out Tentercroft St and access around Pelham Bridge has made a huge difference - when I first knew Lincoln 30 years ago, there was only the one road bridge (Pelham Bridge) and a level crossing problem could completely stuff the area. Going back further, my in-laws remembered the days before Pelham Bridge and just how affected the city was by the crossings.
It was May 11 1985 St Marks closed; quite an eventful day for Lincoln as City were playing at Bradford when the fire broke out at Valley Parade. Unexpectly found myself on the last Nottingham train; unexpectly as I had a railtour ticket but an accident on the WCML had seen the railtour cancelled.
The old Railway End stand at Lincoln City's stadium at Sincil Bank is named the Stacey West Stand after the two City supporters, Bill Stacey and Jim West, who lost their lives in the fire (along with 54 home supporters). The name must be a source of puzzlement to many visiting supporters, who wonder why the stand appears to be named after Joanna Page's character in "Gavin & Stacey"
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If I remember the HST in the Grimsby Direction fouled the high street level crossing during in the stop. I don’t recall if it did in the London direction.
It didn't foul the level crossing in either direction. It stopped clear of the barrow crossing which was the only access to platform 2. This meant that several carriages at the London end of the train were off the end of the platform. A nuisance, especially in the days of loco haulage, as with the loco and BG at the head of the train only three passenger carriages were actually on the platform on northbound services.
My grandmother, a regular traveller on the route, alwasy complained about having to walk a long way at the platfrom at Kings Cross to be able to get off at St Marks - although of course if the plaform had been longer she would have still had to walk the length of the train at one end of the journey or the other.
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Indeed. Still amazing how many wait rather then use the bridge. I think Brayford is actually one way now and the high street is effectively closed. (Traffic still uses it to access certain parts of the high street, however I am sure if it was closed it could all go southbound to the lights.
It is - Bryaford is southbound and High Street is Northbound, and access only to permit holders, outside shopping hours. (unusual in being level crossings on one way streets - the only other one I know of was at Feltham, now removed when the platforms were extended across the road)
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Sorting out Tentercroft St and access around Pelham Bridge has made a huge difference - when I first knew Lincoln 30 years ago, there was only the one road bridge (Pelham Bridge) and a level crossing problem could completely stuff the area. Going back further, my in-laws remembered the days before Pelham Bridge and just how affected the city was by the crossings.
Indeed, before Pelham Bridge opened in 1958 there was no road bridge over the railway for 25 miles, between Saxilby and Woodhall Spa. Within the city boundary there were only three roads across the railway (and the river), all within half a mile, connecting the north and south of the City - all three of them level crossings.
The Tentercroft Street project has merely provided a link on the south side of the railway between the two bridges across the railway, largely replacing the one on the north side (St Mary Street), rather than increasing the number of crossings. The game changer there was the Brayford viaduct a further quarter mile west.
There were many, such as my father, who felt that the upstart railway should have been diverted rather than bisect the High Street, which is part of a Roman Road nearly 2,000 years old. (c 60AD)
Indeed, before Pelham Bridge opened in 1958 there was no road bridge over the railway for 25 miles, between Saxilby and Woodhall Spa. Within the city boundary there were only three roads across the railway (and the river), all within half a mile, connecting the north and south of the City - all three of them level crossings.
The Tentercroft Street project has merely provided a link on the south side of the railway between the two bridges across the railway, largely replacing the one on the north side (St Mary Street), rather than increasing the number of crossings. The game changer there was the Brayford viaduct a further quarter mile west.
There were many, such as my father, who felt that the upstart railway should have been diverted rather than bisect the High Street, which is part of a Roman Road nearly 2,000 years old. (c 60AD)
I make the point about Tentercroft St because of how it has reduced the need to criss-cross the railway on some journeys - it's a long time now since I needed to cross Pelham Bridge and then track through town.
Going back to the OP by @Anstecker, what strikes me here is just how flat the ground is through Lincoln, and then both up and downstream on the Witham. That has made bridging expensive, and forced reliance on level crossings.
Going back to the OP by @Anstecker, what strikes me here is just how flat the ground is through Lincoln, and then both up and downstream on the Witham. That has made bridging expensive, and forced reliance on level crossings.
Not only flat but marshy, which is why except at the limestone outcrop that is the Lincoln Edge (cut through by the River Witham) there are very few roads and therefore crossings of the river.
It was the gap, of course, which made it so atteactive to railways (five from thecwest and three from the east)
Not only flat but marshy, which is why except at the limestone outcrop that is the Lincoln Edge (cut through by the River Witham) there are very few roads and therefore crossings of the river.
It was the gap, of course, which made it so atteactive to railways (five from thecwest and three from the east)
I'm not sure the sidings were ever through tracks. There were just two over the level crossing.
(note the footcrossing in the fopregrojnd - the only access to Platform 2 (on which the photographer is standing)
Here is a picture taken in steam days (and before the roof was removed in 1957)
1887, 1904, 1930 and 1938 maps all appear to show two middle tracks across the level crossing, but the southern one is not connected to anything and the northern only towards Pelham Street Junction. Perhaps there were originally central through lines, but these were removed at an early stage.
The old Railway End stand at Lincoln City's stadium at Sincil Bank is named the Stacey West Stand after the two City supporters, Bill Stacey and Jim West, who lost their lives in the fire (along with 54 home supporters). The name must be a source of puzzlement to many visiting supporters, who wonder why the stand appears to be named after Joanna Page's character in "Gavin & Stacey"
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My bold.
Just to colour in for those who might not understand.
The fire in 1985 was in a stand at the Bradford City vs Lincoln City game held in Bradford. Took 56 lives, two of whom were Lincoln City supporters. Link to Wikipedia here.
I'm not sure whether they are tracks - unlike the one at extreme left, there appear to be no grooves. (they could be the line of former tracks that hve been filled in) I could not find any old maps showing more than two tracks crossing the road.
The area immediately to the east of the level crossing was a Great Central goods yard. Until 1966 there was very little rail traffic using the end-on junction between it and the Midland railway station across the road - certainly not enough to justify quadruple track!
The Midland line from Newark to Lincoln was scheduled to close and services use the route from Grantham to Lincoln via Leadenham etc. However, the building of the curve at Newark crossing saw the older route to Lincoln saved and the route from (Honington Junction) - Lincoln close.
The Midland line from Newark to Lincoln was scheduled to close and services use the route from Grantham to Lincoln via Leadenham etc. However, the building of the curve at Newark crossing saw the older route to Lincoln saved and the route from (Honington Junction) - Lincoln close.
It does make you wonder if they had closed it how much regret losing the direct link to Nottingham would have cause. Lincoln - Grantham I don’t think is a missed (especially with them making the curve). The villages in between stations may not have survived anyway. Although Swinderby did and it is lightly used.
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