Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[duffield]

As part of the the 222/810 changeover, I thought all reservations had been suspended?

Both the 222 services I travelled on yesterday had reservations.
Services were:
1B25 0850 Nottingham to St Pancras International (unit 222023)
1D92 1635 St Pancras International to Nottingham (unit 222021)

So is the actual situation that there are reservations on 222 diagrams but not on 810-intended diagrams?

 

[Spartacus]

XC would have had longer Voyagers - at the least an extension of all the 4-cars to 5-car (any longer would have impeded running pairs), but even back in those days (early 2000s) it was stopped by Government.

It still wouldn't have helped much, nor would it have helped the operational nightmare that was Operation Princess.

Anyway, touch wood things don't seem as bad today with the 810s, or indeed 222s & 360s.

 

[liamf656]

As part of the the 222/810 changeover, I thought all reservations had been suspended?

Both the 222 services I travelled on yesterday had reservations.
Services were:
1B25 0850 Nottingham to St Pancras International (unit 222023)
1D92 1635 St Pancras International to Nottingham (unit 222021)

So is the actual situation that there are reservations on 222 diagrams but not on 810-intended diagrams?

Reservations are only suspended on 810 services, and the 222 diagrams that will soon swap to 810. All other 222 diagrams still have reservations

 

[ChilliSauce]

Would appear it is not just class 810 that has door problems ... So could be some genetic design failure of Hitachi, transferred across from earlier builds of Class 8xx series

 

[800001]

Would appear it is not just class 810 that has door problems ... So could be some genetic design failure of Hitachi, transferred across from earlier builds of Class 8xx series

All train classes at some point each day will have a door issue.

 

[Horizon22]

All train classes at some point each day will have a door issue.

Indeed. At it may not be an actual technical fault with doors but could be an obstruction (deliberate or otherwise) or indicator failure which then requires manual intervention.

 

[Trainman40083]

Indeed. At it may not be an actual technical fault with doors but could be an obstruction (deliberate or otherwise) or indicator failure which then requires manual intervention.

Reminds me of Class 156 DMUs etc, when something got stuck in the floor runner. The doors couldn't close or interlock.

 

[AndrewJM70]

I am sure Branson wanted 6 carriages, which with each axis having a service every 30 minutes, might have worked.

There was a plan to add an electric-power carriage with a pantograph and go to 6 coaches per set, but this never came to fruition.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I remember Japanese exceptionalism in the 1960s;
Bullet trains
Tokyo Olympics
Honda C50s

Now we have
Hitachi
Fujitsu

 

[Trainman40083]

There was a plan to add an electric-power carriage with a pantograph and go to 6 coaches per set, but this never came to fruition.

Yes, but the original plan was when first built. I guess the DfT thought it was overoptimistic. In terms of adding the electric coach. Do you invest that much in a half life train?

 

[Railperf]

THis Mornings 05:56 from Sheffield to ST Pancras started short from Derby instead this morning. Poor Sheffield commuters seem to face a cancellation of one of their 810 services on a daily basis!
Analysis of Tuesday performances suggests 810013 much slower on diesel mode than its stablemates, so an engine out at least! Its performance on a par to a Class 222 on three engines!

 

[Snow1964]

I am sure Branson wanted 6 carriages, which with each axis having a service every 30 minutes, might have worked.

Yes, that's why end coaches are A and F, because plan was to buy additional intermediate coaches as business grew (but Virgin never did, then over time DfT got more involved with decisions and expansion strategy was killed). The poor layout was because they also wanted 3 class trains, each with own large toilet.

There was a plan to add an electric-power carriage with a pantograph and go to 6 coaches per set, but this never came to fruition.

Yes, but due to DfT dithering, the extra coach had an increasing shorter lifespan if it was expected to be scrapped same time as original voyagers, so its cost-benefit ratio got worse over time.

Back to the 810s, and the complete rehash of a relatively space efficient 26m 80x fleet, altering about 70% to squeeze it into 24m has in redesign, recertification, and delays, cost (along with unplanned extension of 222s) hundreds of millions of pounds. I would not be surprised if it has ended up lot more than adding 20m platform extensions to a few stations.

Whats more nobody else likes the bodged 24m design of the 810s, open access operators prefer the more space efficient and known design 80x 26m version. Even DfT controlled operators have never ordered more 810 style trains, so it will remain a non standard oddity until 2060s

 

[theblackwatch]

Lead to believe 810014 will deliver to Etches Park on Wednesday.

Today's 5Q17 path now cancelled which was manually activated.

And today's 5Q17 cancelled too according to RTT...

 

[liamf656]

THis Mornings 05:56 from Sheffield to ST Pancras started short from Derby instead this morning. Poor Sheffield commuters seem to face a cancellation of one of their 810 services on a daily basis!
Analysis of Tuesday performances suggests 810013 much slower on diesel mode than its stablemates, so an engine out at least! Its performance on a par to a Class 222 on three engines!

As far as I'm aware there are no 810s running with engines out.

 

[Bayum]

Wonder what the excuse is from Hitachi with class 810 ?

Brand new train internally, even with the 800 class?

 

[Trainman40083]

If we look at the loading on the MML now (granted we didn't have crystal ball). Perhaps they should have ordered the standard 9 car 26m version. Until we see the diagrams we don't know how many will split / join during the day or how many all day 10 car diagrams will exist.

If you take the Lincoln extension, LNER already operate 9 car, Newark Castle would not really work, but they probably could kill the direct to London services off now. They only run Southbound now and EMR have 3 car trains now so they might not be needed now anyway.

I struggle to recall what 10 car 222 diagrams I used. I think the 07.05 ISH ex Derby to London was a 10 car that split in London, to form different trains. The 07.35 ISH was a 7 car. It will be interesting to see how many 10 cars eventually run...

 

[Railperf]

I struggle to recall what 10 car 222 diagrams I used. I think the 07.05 ISH ex Derby to London was a 10 car that split in London, to form different trains. The 07.35 ISH was a 7 car. It will be interesting to see how many 10 cars eventually run...

It's interesting to see in a daily basis how many 5- cars run.

As far as I'm aware there are no 810s running with engines out.

Not sure about today yet, but how do you explain 810013 being so much slower than its stablemates on diesel most of the day - Tuesday 24th?
Traction converter issue maybe?

 

[liamf656]

I've been told reliably that 810014 should be delivered tomorrow (27/02)

 

[Amos390]

I've been told reliably that 810014 should be delivered tomorrow (27/02)

Well, GBRf have just made a VSTP flow from Merchant Park to Etches, still 5Q17 with all the same timings though: https://live.rail-record.co.uk/train.php/?c=57214&d=2026-02-27

 

[Railperf]

As far as I'm aware there are no 810s running with engines out.

810013 seems to be struggling today. If it is not traction power shortage - what is the issue?

Realtime Trains | 1C59 1400 Sheffield to St Pancras International | 26/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 1C59 1400 departure from Sheffield to St Pancras International on 26/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Mike395]

810013 seems to be struggling today. If it is not traction power shortage - what is the issue?

Realtime Trains | 1C59 1400 Sheffield to St Pancras International | 26/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 1C59 1400 departure from Sheffield to St Pancras International on 26/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Considering it was +4 already on departure and had probably lost its path, I don't think you can infer that there were necessarily train performance issues causing the delay without more info.

 

[liamf656]

810013 seems to be struggling today. If it is not traction power shortage - what is the issue?

Realtime Trains | 1C59 1400 Sheffield to St Pancras International | 26/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 1C59 1400 departure from Sheffield to St Pancras International on 26/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

You can see on its previous journey it kept to time throughout. The delay to 1C59 was caused by late running 1L11 which held up 1V58 which held up 1C59, which in turn lost its path and got held up on the southern MML. Once again nothing to do with performance

 

[Trainman40083]

You can see on its previous journey it kept to time throughout. The delay to 1C59 was caused by late running 1L11 which held up 1V58 which held up 1C59, which in turn lost its path and got held up on the southern MML. Once again nothing to do with performance

Maybe it suggests a serious lack of capacity which stops late trains recovering their schedules.

 

[Railperf]

You can see on its previous journey it kept to time throughout. The delay to 1C59 was caused by late running 1L11 which held up 1V58 which held up 1C59, which in turn lost its path and got held up on the southern MML. Once again nothing to do with performance

It started losing time on it's previous journey. Started 4 late from Sheffield, but the XC service was well ahead of it 6.5 mins in fact.

It continued to lose time through to Derby where it had a slightly longer stop, but the Cardiff to Nottingham was held to give it a clear road. And it had fresh air in front of it all the way to Leicester but still continued losing time.
Anyway, the acceleration data shows it 40 seconds slower leaving Chesterfield and consistently slower acceleration from other stops on that diagram compared to 810006 with fresh air ahead.
The unit definitely has a traction power deficit either due to an onboard fault or how it is being driven.

 

[Railperf]

Quel surprise. 1C17 0700 Sheffield to St Pancras cancelled as it is starting short from Derby.

 

[Sonyman66]

5Q17 Merchant Park to Etches Park Derby is on its way with 810014

 

[Cowley]

To keep this thread on the subject of rolling stock, I’ve moved the discussion regarding short platforms etc into this new thread:

What could/should have been done to boost capacity on the MML?

Yes, that's why end coaches are A and F, because plan was to buy additional intermediate coaches as business grew (but Virgin never did, then over time DfT got more involved with decisions and expansion strategy was killed). The poor layout was because they also wanted 3 class trains, each with...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[720144]

5Q17 Merchant Park to Etches Park Derby is on its way with 810014

Has been a good 2 month gap between 013 & 014 being delivered to Etches.

Hopefully 016 will be delivered in the next week or 2.

 

[Trainman40083]

5Q17 Merchant Park to Etches Park Derby is on its way with 810014

Yes saw it come through Belper

 

[800001]

Has been a good 2 month gap between 013 & 014 being delivered to Etches.

Hopefully 016 will be delivered in the next week or 2.

810015 has been on mainline and done some testing, and is currently doing static testing at Aycliffe.

016 is still inside the Test shed.

Possibly 015 delivered before 016?