Trivia: UK bus stations not fit for purpose

[Hyebone]

Perhaps another topic, but what about bus stations that don't fit their service levels. There's plenty of examples of bus stations being too small (see leeds), but are there examples of one being too big? I'm aware of Preston being practically halved I'm going to open another thread

Following on from the Bus Station Designs in the UK thread, are there any more examples of UK bus stations not fit for purpose. Whether that be too big or too small, or just rubbish in general. I'm curious. (I'm particularly interested in those too big)

Some I'm aware of are:

Leeds - Far too small for the service levels; services spilling out onto nearby streets.
Preston(historic) - The bus station was practically halved due to it being far too big for then current service levels.
Worksop - Far too short (having to turn whilst reversing to get out. I moaned about it here)

 

[TR673]

The current one in Lincoln has always been a bit problematic. It opened some time in the late 2010s on the site of the previous bus station which had a car park above it. Now the land has been predominantly given over to a large multi storey car park with a smaller, drive-in-reverse-out bus station shoehorned into the remaining space.

The main issue is the general lack of space for the buses to manoeuvre and park to lay over. Sometimes a stand gets blocked because the bus in it has nowhere to park, or buses are driving round and round waiting for a parking bay or stand to become available. It's not unknown for the bus station to gridlock itself where buses can't leave because they're stuck behind buses queuing to get in, but the whole system is backed up in a circle.

It doesn't help that the multi-storey exit barriers pitch out into the bus station exit, so the buses have to battle cars as well as each other.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Piccadilly gardens is a difficult one, is it one bus station, two bus stations, or 1 bus stations and one large set of roadside stops.
While I have absolutely no clue how you could integrate them in the city centre, the current layout is inconvenient at times.

 

[satters]

Birmingham, doesn't even have a Bus station anymore since the Midland Red "bullring" bus station was closed years ago, only a coach station, the local buses stop at various places, to interchange you have to find where the other buses stop and walk across the city, totally not fit for purpose

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Following on from the Bus Station Designs in the UK thread, are there any more examples of UK bus stations not fit for purpose. Whether that be too big or too small, or just rubbish in general. I'm curious. (I'm particularly interested in those too big)

Some I'm aware of are:

Leeds - Far too small for the service levels; services spilling out onto nearby streets.
Preston(historic) - The bus station was practically halved due to it being far too big for then current service levels.
Worksop - Far too short (having to turn whilst reversing to get out. I moaned about it here)

I don't think Leeds is too small - it generally has the services that it always had even after taking in the former Vicar Lane.

Take your point on Worksop and raise you.... Eldon Square in Newcastle. Any driver will tell you that the bays are at some curious angles and with slight changes on the slope/contour of stands

 

[paulmch]

It doesn't quite fit the OP's criteria as it doesn't exist anymore, but Greyfriars bus station in Northampton truly was the tenth circle of hell

 

[Hyebone]

Take your point on Worksop and raise you.... Eldon Square in Newcastle. Any driver will tell you that the bays are at some curious angles and with slight changes on the slope/contour of stands

Now you mention it, absolutely. I visited Newcastle for the first time not too long ago, and a friend and I noted it looked awkward to maneuver buses.

 

[Statto]

Piccadilly gardens is a difficult one, is it one bus station, two bus stations, or 1 bus stations and one large set of roadside stops.
While I have absolutely no clue how you could integrate them in the city centre, the current layout is inconvenient at times.

Yeah, Piccadilly Gardens is an awful bus station, & most of the services can't use it so have to nearby street stops instead, some routes stop nearer to Piccadilly railway station than to Piccadilly Gardens.

Piccadilly Gardens bus station has about 10 stands & what feels like 5 times as many routes going through there, & most of the routes are quite frequent too, like the 192 is every 3 to 4 minutes but that uses street stand.

 

[mike57]

I am going to nominate Bridlington

Location is OK, in the town centre, and not far from the sea front.

BUT
Its open with insufficent dry waiting areas in the winter, just open shelters at each stop.
No overall information boards telling you which stop buses go from, its fine if you know but otherwise you have to walk around every stop checking if thats the stop for your bus.
In summer its not really big enough, but I accept that you probably will not make provision for a few weeks of the year.
If you want to use rail and bus its quite a walk between the two.

There was an opportunity to create a 'proper' bus station when the excursion platforms at the rail station were demolished, and the Hilderthorpe road car park was developed, with buses carrying on through the current bus station in the town centre as a major stopping point. However the council wouldn't spend the money. Looking at some of the stuff they have funded this doesnt make sense, but thats a different problem

 

[trentside]

The current one in Lincoln has always been a bit problematic. It opened some time in the late 2010s on the site of the previous bus station which had a car park above it. Now the land has been predominantly given over to a large multi storey car park with a smaller, drive-in-reverse-out bus station shoehorned into the remaining space.

The main issue is the general lack of space for the buses to manoeuvre and park to lay over. Sometimes a stand gets blocked because the bus in it has nowhere to park, or buses are driving round and round waiting for a parking bay or stand to become available. It's not unknown for the bus station to gridlock itself where buses can't leave because they're stuck behind buses queuing to get in, but the whole system is backed up in a circle.

It doesn't help that the multi-storey exit barriers pitch out into the bus station exit, so the buses have to battle cars as well as each other.

Couldn’t agree more with this. It’s a terrible design and too small. The insufficient layover space is just ridiculous. I have to come off Pelham Bridge to get to work and frequently get stuck behind buses unable to turn into the station as there are multiple vehicles trying to reverse and exit.

The passenger area is too small as well.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

I don't agree that Leeds is too small, indeed when I lived there several of the stands were not in regular use.
The use of on-street stops is historic; many of the city services have never used the bus station, instead they operate on a cross-city basis and just drive through the centre and out the other side.

As for Preston, it was only slightly too large when opened (1969 IIRC), but that was deliberate to give more capacity if needed.
In later years it became far too big, sadly that being a reflection on the decline in service frequencies and number of routes rather than a fault with the bus station itself.

I'd nominate Scunthorpe for this thread; it's a sprawling and largely open air facility with just a few small shelters and a bizarre and maze-like system of pedestrian crossings across the bus carriageways to access the stands.

 

[mangad]

Piccadilly gardens is a difficult one, is it one bus station, two bus stations, or 1 bus stations and one large set of roadside stops.
While I have absolutely no clue how you could integrate them in the city centre, the current layout is inconvenient at times.

Timetables simply refer to the place as "Piccadilly Gardens" without mention of any of it being a bus station. But TfGM's Live Departures web pages have a map labelled "Piccadilly Gardens bus station" and that includes all the stops.

Realistically it's definitely not perfect and hasn't been for a long time. But it's hard to imagine what the alternative would be. Unless you build something in the backstreets near Piccadilly station - probably taking over one of the car parks or something like that - then there isn't the land anyway. And, it must be said, most of the car parks out there are temporary; land being held onto until the right development opportunity comes along for the owner. And would passengers want their bus stops moved further from the shopping district?

 

[Statto]

The issue with Piccadilly Gardens the bus area shrunk considerably since Metrolink arrived, a bus station in the backstreets near Piccadilly Rail station might be ideal, but it'll be a trek for passengers to get to/from for the bus they need.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Take your point on Worksop and raise you.... Eldon Square in Newcastle. Any driver will tell you that the bays are at some curious angles and with slight changes on the slope/contour of stands

Although its still about twelvety bazillion percent better than the old Eldon Square bus station, where you didn't so much breathe the air as eat it in chunks.

Leeds - Far too small for the service levels; services spilling out onto nearby streets.

Leeds isn't too small. In general, the Leeds city services have never gone into the bus station, they've always served the nearby streets as part of cross-city routes. Even back in the day, City and Vicar Lane bus stations were just for the out-of-town routes.

 

[mayneway]

Many of Manchester’s bus stations are not fit for purpose.
Recently built Stockport looks good and ticks the boxes but it’s gone from having 15 layover bays in the old station to only 4 in the new station and it’s an issue.
Ashton isn’t bad but the entrance is in the wrong place and to get from one side to the other you have to go round half of Ashton and if you don’t make the lights where the tram crosses your sat for 5 minutes plus waiting.

 

[321362]

Stratford (London) has three and nobody quite knows which bus leaves from where, as it isn't signposted at all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The issue with Piccadilly Gardens the bus area shrunk considerably since Metrolink arrived, a bus station in the backstreets near Piccadilly Rail station might be ideal, but it'll be a trek for passengers to get to/from for the bus they need.

Metrolink should have reduced the number of buses in Manchester City Centre significantly and thus removed buses from there, but even in a regulated setting like the Bee Network the UK has never understood integration outside of London. Thus it should be suitable as it is.

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Preston(historic) - The bus station was practically halved due to it being far too big for then current service levels.

Preston is unsuitable now because it's in the wrong place. The building is impressive and justifying of being listed, but it should be converted to an event space or other public purposes. It's miles from the railway station and right on the edge of town so not even that convenient for most of the shops.

For buses, the best approach would be for Rotala Preston Bus to run cross-city with bidirectional running along Fishergate reinstated (but Fishergate to be bus and cycle only over its full length) and stops at convenient locations along there, and to build a smaller regional bus station on the current pick up/drop off area at Preston station to replace it for terminating regional (mostly Stagecoach) bus services which need to be properly integrated with rail.

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To add another one...

Northampton - too small, so a lot of services stop on the nearby streets, which confusingly are recorded in online systems as bus station bays - I bet that means a lot of unfamiliar users missing buses.

Someone even wrote an amusing song about it:

Northampton bus centre problem song

The opening of a new bus £7m bus interchange which left a town centre in gridlock is set to music.

www.bbc.co.uk

The opening of a new bus £7m bus interchange which left a town centre in gridlock has been set to music.

The Northampton Bus Station Song is the work of BBC Northampton presenter and reporter Martin Heath.

He said he was inspired to write the song because Monday's opening had descended into a "comic scenario".

Lines of buses started to build up outside the new interchange while queues of passengers waiting to board built up inside the station.

Northamptonshire County Council said action had been taken to ease problems and it was continuing to monitor the situation.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I appreciate it's one of my hobby horses... but there are some that are too small and some too large.

Overly small - the Northampton one which is even more crazy in that some high frequency local services use it (so low average wait times for passengers) whilst other inter-urban services are on street stops around the corner. Bay 4 - a local bus to Sunniside every 10 mins but round the corner... two, hourly services to Daventry from a roadside stop plus an hourly Swan Valley

Gloucester has the problem mentioned elsewhere... enough stands but not enough layover bays

Oversized - Batley (which I know I've mentioned before), Tadcaster (who knew Taddy needed a bus station - though worth it for the famed TadKebab shop), Wigan.... it's massive! Halesowen...covers an incredible area, Newark - huge for a small town with few services

Although its still about twelvety bazillion percent better than the old Eldon Square bus station, where you didn't so much breathe the air as eat it in chunks.

I absolutely agree. That was awful...as were all the other Newcastle bus stations of the 1980s/1990s (i.e. Marlborough Crescent, Worswick Street, Haymarket). I could write a book of the truly awful bus stations that thankfully we no longer have to endure.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Oversized - ... Wigan.... it's massive!

Wigan's can get very busy, and it's on the location of the old (not reverse out) bus station, so they just used the full length.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Metrolink should have reduced the number of buses in Manchester City Centre significantly and thus removed buses from there

Probably not from Piccadilly Gardens, though, as the vast majority of the routes from there head to areas with no Metrolink.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wadebridge - not really big enough to need a bus station, to be honest, but it's a nice curiosity that it's near the old railway station, but the provision itself is awful - one windswept stop (even with the shelter), badly vandalised plus a couple of overgrown reverse-in bays which are used arbitrarily and randomly by drivers.

Would be much better if they could get an agreement to use the old railway station platform instead, which is very close to it and would provide a far nicer waiting environment as it still retains its classic overall roof right up to the roadside.

Bus station (very old picture still showing Western Greyhound!) -

https://www.google.com/maps/place/W...try=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDIyMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw==

Old railway station (better location, though you'd have to cut the pavement back on that side so the road was wide enough) -

Street View · Google Maps

Explore a place in a more immersive way in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[Kuyoyo]

I appreciate it's one of my hobby horses... but there are some that are too small and some too large.

Oversized - Batley (which I know I've mentioned before), Tadcaster (who knew Taddy needed a bus station - though worth it for the famed TadKebab shop), Wigan.... it's massive! Halesowen...covers an incredible area, Newark - huge for a small town with few services

Missing one there - South Shields. So big (14 stands), each service effectively has its own stand to depart from.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Missing one there - South Shields. So big (14 stands), each service effectively has its own stand to depart from.

Bletchley has that arrangement. It probably doesn't really need to exist any more and could be developed in favour of a few roadside stops on both sides (which would allow there to be fewer double-backs where buses are running in both directions) and probably will be when the central Bletchley redevelopment works take place. The effective relocation of Bletchley town centre (in any meaningful sense, bar the vape shop/nail bar/charity shop/budget homewares shop/chicken shop type remnants) to the Stadium complex and area surrounding it would probably suggest that a recast of that end of the network to remove buses terminating there would be sensible anyway, it's not a key destination like it was. And a lot of them operate through (routes 5/6 being the majority of the service there) anyway, so moving the stops to on-street would remove an unnecessary additional reverse (and the risk it carries) in both directions on these services.

 

[Jellyfish261]

It does just about work, but nominate Newport (Isle of Wight) as too tight - both for the buses and any queue waiting at Stand B blocks the narrow walkway (main entrance/exit for pedestrians).

Southern Vectis manage it well but suspect it would struggle with any service uplifts.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Missing one there - South Shields. So big (14 stands), each service effectively has its own stand to depart from.

Indeed - the size of the bus station only matched by the size of the Greggs

 

[Tetchytyke]

Overly small - the Northampton one which is even more crazy in that some high frequency local services use it (so low average wait times for passengers) whilst other inter-urban services are on street stops around the corner.

I always wonder how much of that is operators preferring not to pay the bus station access fees.

Oversized - Batley (which I know I've mentioned before), Tadcaster (who knew Taddy needed a bus station - though worth it for the famed TadKebab shop), Wigan.... it's massive!

Wigan's is big but it needs to be as pretty much everything in the town serves it. I never feel like there's loads of pointlessly empty stands there.

Batley, six stands seems about right, but whether it needed a bus station is a different argument. Same with Tadcaster, really, although it does give buses time to layover or wait time without clogging up the town centre.

Missing one there - South Shields. So big (14 stands), each service effectively has its own stand to depart from.

That's more a sign of how much retrenchment there's been in the town in recent times. Certainly at the design stage it needed that many stands.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Wigan's can get very busy, and it's on the location of the old (not reverse out) bus station, so they just used the full length.

I remember the old one but the new one... It's Ceausescu inspired!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I always wonder how much of that is operators preferring not to pay the bus station access fees.

Recalling the controversy at the time it was very much not that but the congestion that was being caused when more routes served the bus station causing severe delays and the much more significant cost of increased peak vehicle requirements. It's not only too small but has an unsuitable road layout, though some changes were made to make it less bad (I think saying that is fair) shortly after its disastrous opening, which despite having been on a Sunday with a much-reduced service frequency basically caused a near complete collapse of service and delays for car drivers too.

To be fair Greyfriars was an awkwardly located dump, but the replacement really isn't very good either.

 

[Class45]

Flitwick Interchange - three stands for only 2-3 buses an hour plus the occasional shuttle to Woburn Centre Parcs. Conveniently sited in front of the railway station but inconvenient for buses to actually stop there because of the road layout. Buses coming from the Ampthill direction drive past on the opposite side of the road without stopping which sort of defeats the object of why it was built.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I always wonder how much of that is operators preferring not to pay the bus station access fees.

Not the reason in Northampton - in fact, it would make sense for Stagecoach to move the local buses out and the lower frequency interurban services in

Wigan's is big but it needs to be as pretty much everything in the town serves it. I never feel like there's loads of pointlessly empty stands there.

It has 19 stands. Leeds has 23 - Wigan is crazy big but probably emphasised by the huge apron and the overall architecture.

Batley, six stands seems about right, but whether it needed a bus station is a different argument. Same with Tadcaster, really, although it does give buses time to layover or wait time without clogging up the town centre.

Batley might have needed it when service frequencies were higher but not now.

As regards Taddy - it's got one main bus service that passes through 3 times an hour each way and couple of pretty infrequent rural services and has never been that busy. It's just a historic outlier and I find it funny rather than anything else.

One that I'm glad is being replaced is Bishop Auckland. Shame that the local council has allowed such out of town development that it's killed the town centre and local bus services have suffered so that'll probably be a bit too large now.

EDIT: the Flitwick one was reported by Roger French... who has also covered the Barry debacle.