go back 20+ years and didn't the Mountain Goat Renaults run a service up the Struggle?
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Stagecoach Cumbria and North Lancashire
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Oh, I'd forgotten about Kirkstone Pass being shut.
In the summer the Windermere to Penrith buses are run from Kendal (two vehicles), with the Penrith to Patterdale open-top services run by Penrith (one bus). Between Penrith and Patterdale this gives an hourly service, with Patterdale to Windermere being every two hours.
With Kirkstone Pass closed they'll run everything as Penrith to Patterdale, with the open top bus from Penrith, and one vehicle from Kendal. So yes, this will be a positioning service to the bus back to Kendal depot. They'll run it to Grasmere, then most likely flip it to a 599 to get it back to the depot. Some of the 599s run to Kendal in tge evening anyway. Interesting they're not doing a similar service in the morning though.
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Anyone know why over the last four months Morecambe depot has been losing some double deckers, being replaced by a mixed bag of 200MMC and Solos? Especially noticeable on routes like the 5 and 6 group
Is it a standardisation attempt to get rid of small local microfleets?
Is it a standardisation attempt to get rid of small local microfleets?
markymark2000
On Moderation
AHH, thank you. That would explain things.
Looking at the block details, the 559 will work onto a 18:45 555 from Grasmere. To Kendal.
Glad I've seen your post, I was planning to shoehorn in a trip over the Kirkstone pass in April when I have a week in the Lakes!
That's annoying.
michael Bell
Member
- Joined
- 26 May 2019
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- 14
No e200MMC at Morecambe they are all older e300 the extra Solo are for the 88/89 contract award also 3 ex Manchester E400 and some Scania E400 from Lillyhall for the e400MMC sent there.
Just stumbled across an interesting article about Stagecoach's Lake District operations on Route One. Talks about their approach, and the way they handle promotion, and how the winter/summer staff differences aren't as big as we may assume. All that kind of thing. Well worth a read.
Statto
Established Member
Speaking of Stagecoach summer extras, the extra 555s in the summer (the ones that use the M6 between Kendal & Lancaster) should be renumbered to either X55 or X555 to avoid confusion with the normal stopping 555, particularly as they depart within 10 minutes of each other at Lancaster.
X55 would cause confusion with the 55 Lancaster-Carnforth, and X555 wouldn't fit in the display boxes...
755 is already taken for the Morecambe-Lakes service, so perhaps 655 or 455?
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
As it's a minor variant I'd go with 556 (6 rather than 4 as it's easy to remember "556 goes on the M6". That's only used (quick check on bustimes.org) for a Newcastle school bus, so I doubt there'd be any confusion
It also keeps it in the 5xx range as most Lakes services are.That said does it actually cause any confusion? It does clearly state it on the displays that it's via the M6.
(I don't think 666 would really work despite the summer M6 traffic often being evil
)556 was previously used for a 555 variant that ran via Borwick & Priest Hutton. Last used around ten years agoAs it's a minor variant I'd go with 556 (6 rather than 4 as it's easy to remember "556 goes on the M6". That's only used (quick check on bustimes.org) for a Newcastle school bus, so I doubt there'd be any confusion
That said does it actually cause any confusion? It does clearly state it on the displays that it's via the M6.
(I don't think 666 would really work despite the summer M6 traffic often being evil
That's a very interesting and insightful read.
It's certainly an impressive operation, though not without it's issues.
Without straying too far off topic, it does show what is possible and what we could have in areas like the Peak District and Snowdonia if the money and will was there.
Summer details and timetables now available on the Stagecoach website
www.stagecoachbus.com
ServiceUpdatesArticle
www.stagecoachbus.com
The Lakes Summer timetable is now online - appears Kendal will be working some of the Northern Lakes work this year, the short 509s between Keswick and Harsop mainly (the 559 being the way of getting the bus back to Kendal at the end of the day).
YorkRailFan
Established Member
Some big positives in this year's timetable. 509 & 553 to run daily and extra 555 journeys to run throughout the Summer and not just in the high season.
Stagecoach already has a 554 between Carlise and Keswick anyway.As it's a minor variant I'd go with 556 (6 rather than 4 as it's easy to remember "556 goes on the M6". That's only used (quick check on bustimes.org) for a Newcastle school bus, so I doubt there'd be any confusion
509 appears to now be daily, rather than only at weekends as last year. Which is good.
The 517 - the new bus to Little Langdale that ran last year in July and August - seems to be on the map, but not in the timetable. So unclear whether that's coming back.
The 517 - the new bus to Little Langdale that ran last year in July and August - seems to be on the map, but not in the timetable. So unclear whether that's coming back.
It appears the mysterious 559 is a positioning journey back towards Kendal for the 509, while I guess the morning journey just runs empty to Keswick for this.
The summer times start from 23 March which is good news, the timetable I downloaded for the 77/77A/77C suggesting weekends only until late May was wrong.
Some interesting additions including Monday to Friday journeys on the 509, also the 553 giving access from Keswick to Caldbeck for two hours in the morning.
The summer times start from 23 March which is good news, the timetable I downloaded for the 77/77A/77C suggesting weekends only until late May was wrong.
Some interesting additions including Monday to Friday journeys on the 509, also the 553 giving access from Keswick to Caldbeck for two hours in the morning.
chiltern trev
Member
70+ pages Lakes Summer Timetable booklet is now out. I picked up a copy in Tullie, Carlisle today. So no doubt copies available in all the usual places.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I thought 508 was 2 buses Penrith, one being the open top, and 1 bus Kendal.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
I thought 508 was 2 buses Penrith, one being the open top, and 1 bus Kendal.
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What engineering issues are they facing?
A number of well documented vehicle fires.
A number or cancellations resulting in the local politicians reporting the operator to the traffic commissioner
dsjs1990
Member
I think these issues are more focused on the West Cumbria part of the operation!
markymark2000
On Moderation
Interestingly, this post just popped up on my Twitter (post has a video showing a broken internal side panel which keeps pulling away)
@CamTrains said:
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Problem they have around the Lakes is apart from the MMC deckers and Wright open toppers, the rest of the fleet is all first gen E200s and E400s which are now all quite elderly and haven't exactly had an easy life.
cjhollyway
Member
Last summer, both the daily 508 boards were run by Kendal, with Penrith only operating the Saturday/Sunday/school holidays open top.
This was a change from the previous years when it was as you describe.
As mentioned upthread on here last year, Penrith took on the extra work of the new 105/106 journeys (plus the 563 was much enhanced) at the start of summer 2025, so I wonder if at this point last year there maybe weren’t the staff in place at Penrith?
Looking at the proposed 508 timetable should the Kirkstone Pass be reopened, the split of work for the daily service seems to be reverting to the pre-2025 arrangement, with Kendal contributing the one bus, starting from Windermere at 0855, and Penrith the other, so maybe the situation at Penrith has stabilised now ?
Meanwhile, as pointed out, it appears Kendal will be operating one bus on the now daily 509 between Keswick and Hartsop.
Incidentally, good to see that service extended beyond Patterdale up the valley towards Brothers Water (particularly with the Kirkstone Pass being closed so no usual through service). I wonder if that is being supported by W&F Council, as I’ve read of worries about loss of trade from businesses in the Glenridding and wider Ullswater area due to the prolonged closure ?
Nice to see the 555 increasing in frequency in the lower part of the summer season rather than just school holidays. It can get quite busy in June.
The article above about the importance of printed publicity is interesting. How can Stagecoach distribute their timetable so far and wide, if you picked one up everytime you saw one, you’d come back with 50 copies, yet other places either print nothing, or have a very limited supply in a very limited location.
The article above about the importance of printed publicity is interesting. How can Stagecoach distribute their timetable so far and wide, if you picked one up everytime you saw one, you’d come back with 50 copies, yet other places either print nothing, or have a very limited supply in a very limited location.
The E400MMCs they got from Chesterfield don't seem to be that reliable. Or is it the case that winter service provision is so much lower than summer that it's possible only one out of the 8 needs to be out today?
There do seem to be gaps of several days when they haven't been active on bustimes. They did have their moments here on the X17, but at least 6 or 7 were out most days.
florence
Member
It's worth noting that they may well be out on Sellafield work - which doesn't track.
That said, they are notoriously unreliable and I feel like the drivers on the X17 were glad to see the back of them.
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Is the correct answer!
Click onto a vehicle in bus times e.g. 11123 at random, and you'll see that this outwardly unreliable bus only features on weekdays on 12, 14, 16, 22 Jan and 2 Feb though on half term week managed 16/17/18/19.
Yet come the weekend... it's worked 8 Saturdays and 7 Sundays in 2026. The lesson... don't just accept BusTimes tracking at face value
Thanks for the clarification, but it also makes me wonder why they are using branded vehicles on a contract. Does it 'not matter' at this time of year as tourist numbers are lower? The services they are branded for seem to be mostly E300s at the moment, so capacity might explain why the MMCs saw more using during half-term. (Although as it is half-term this week in Co Durham you'd have thought the Lakes would be as busy with tourists)Is the correct answer!
Click onto a vehicle in bus times e.g. 11123 at random, and you'll see that this outwardly unreliable bus only features on weekdays on 12, 14, 16, 22 Jan and 2 Feb though on half term week managed 16/17/18/19.
Yet come the weekend... it's worked 8 Saturdays and 7 Sundays in 2026. The lesson... don't just accept BusTimes tracking at face value
I'm assuming 11125 is OTR though, as it's not tracked in 10 days, stopped part-way through the day and isn't a Lillyhall bus. I believe it had a new engine towards the end of it's time in Chesterfield as well.