Megatrain (Virgin) Journey

[AlterEgo]

I do find it slightly baffling that customers can buy a ticket from Edinburgh to Birmingham, but not Edinburgh to Wolverhampton (or even Crewe/Wigan).

You forget who administer Megatrain! The Megatrain option is meant to offer cheap rail journeys, but it's sold by a bus company. I suspect that naturally they want people to use the bus network over anything else. Bus tickets are often more expensive than the Megatrain ones!

If there's a Megabus (or similar) that can compete, they won't give customers the option to travel by rail...

 

[All Line Rover]

The problem with that is they have to have someone at any allowed station who can determine the valdity of a code. Megabus do (or did) allow you to board at more than one location in some towns - this wasn't hard for them to offer as the same person was checking the validity with the driver handily accompanying the bus.

Not really. Customers travelling to Preston / Wigan / Warrington / Crewe / Wolverhampton / Birmingham can all get checked once at Glasgow Central!
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You forget who administer Megatrain! The Megatrain option is meant to offer cheap rail journeys, but it's sold by a bus company. I suspect that naturally they want people to use the bus network over anything else. Bus tickets are often more expensive than the Megatrain ones!

If there's a Megabus (or similar) that can compete, they won't give customers the option to travel by rail...

If so, why are they offering Megatrain tickets between Glasgow and Preston - where PLENTY of buses operate - but not between Edinburgh and Wolverhampton - where NO buses operate?

 

[Deerfold]

You forget who administer Megatrain! The Megatrain option is meant to offer cheap rail journeys, but it's sold by a bus company. I suspect that naturally they want people to use the bus network over anything else. Bus tickets are often more expensive than the Megatrain ones!

If there's a Megabus (or similar) that can compete, they won't give customers the option to travel by rail...

Surely a bus company that owns (and part-owns) various TOCs.

I doubt they care how you travel so long as they get your money, and yes they're unlikely to be competing with themselves if they can help it or they see some good reason (see Magicbus).

Not really. Customers travelling to Preston / Wigan / Warrington / Crewe / Wolverhampton / Birmingham can all get checked once at Glasgow Central!

And they get through the barriers how?

 

[AlterEgo]

If so, why are they offering Megatrain tickets between Glasgow and Preston - where PLENTY of buses operate - but not between Edinburgh and Wolverhampton - where NO buses operate?

OK, but it may also be that there are competitors who have a good EDB-BHM bus service, and the Megatrain scheme is therefore a way of undercutting that, forcing the competition out of business. There must be commercial justification behind it somewhere.

 

[WestCoast]

OK, but it may also be that there are competitors who have a good EDB-BHM bus service, and the Megatrain scheme is therefore a way of undercutting that, forcing the competition out of business. There must be commercial justification behind it somewhere.

If you look at it that way, megatrain competes with megabus. However, I prefer to say they are giving consumers more choice, because not everyone wants to travel on a coach for many hours.

Megatrain is a way to fill the trains that supposedly have light loadings, and it's an effective way of doing so.

 

[All Line Rover]

And they get through the barriers how?

When travelling to Crewe, Glasgow, Liverpool or London there has never been a ticket check upon arrival. I don't know how this works at Birmingham New Street, but I don't see how a ticket check is important once you have arrived at your destination, especially as there has already been a ticket check at the origin station or on board the train.

 

[AlterEgo]

I don't see how a ticket check is important once you have arrived at your destination, especially as there has already been a ticket check at the origin station or on board the train.

It prevents people fraudulently travelling beyond the destination on their ticket. Come on, keep up!

 

[All Line Rover]

It prevents people fraudulently travelling beyond the destination on their ticket. Come on, keep up!

But in the case of a customer arriving at Wolverhampton with a Megatrain ticket from Edinburgh to Wolverhampton, there isn't really a need to check that the ticket is on "the list" because it has already been checked at Edinburgh. That's my point.

 

[WestCoast]

When travelling to Crewe, Glasgow, Liverpool or London there has never been a ticket check upon arrival. I don't know how this works at Birmingham New Street, but I don't see how a ticket check is important once you have arrived at your destination, especially as there has already been a ticket check at the origin station or on board the train.

The barriers at Birmingham New Street are for all arrivals, it's not guaranteed that a ticket check will have taken place at the passenger's point of origin or onboard the train.

But in the case of a customer arriving at Wolverhampton with a Megatrain ticket from Edinburgh to Wolverhampton, there isn't really a need to check that the ticket is on "the list" because it has already been checked at Edinburgh. That's my point.

No, there isn't, but the TOC reserves the right to check the reservation.

 

[Deerfold]

But in the case of a customer arriving at Wolverhampton with a Megatrain ticket from Edinburgh to Wolverhampton, there isn't really a need to check that the ticket is on "the list" because it has already been checked at Edinburgh. That's my point.

And how do the staff at Wolverhampton know it's been checked at Edinburgh? Or that you've even come from Edinburgh?

 

[Butts]

The whole journey I intend to make is revenue neutral.

If I have a £1 megatrain ticket from Edinburgh to Birmingham and alight at Wolverhampton joining the next service to Sandwell & Dudley which I have paid £2.70 for a valid ticket in my posession.

Total revenue £3.70

If I continue to Birmingham and buy a ticket there to Sandwell & Dudley at £2.70

Total revenue £3.70

My course of action does not deprive anyone else of the opportunity to take advantage of the £1 fare - indeed if they were travelling to Birmingham only there would be a reduction in the revenue generated by my trip.

If I wanted to be dishonest I would either

1. Board the S&D train at Wolverhampton without a ticket (virgin so no penalty fare can buy ticket on train) if no ticket check quite likely at that time of night just get off at S&D without a ticket where there are no ticket checks or barriers.

2. Do the same in Birmingham where the chances of a ticket check on a London -Wolverhampton Virgin Service stopping at S&D is non existent. Again could buy ticket on the train if challenged and also the same at S&D no barriers or ticket checks.

 

[AlterEgo]

Your journey is not dishonest, Butts, but it does deprive the TOC of revenue, albeit not in an illegal manner. If you want to go to Wolverhampton, or Sandwell and Dudley, then if you buy a ticket to there it'll be more expensive than your plan.

You aren't abiding by the TnCs of the ticket, strictly speaking. Even if what you are doing is defensible by the NRCoC, the TOCs will get annoyed and opportunities for cheap and easy travel will disappear.

I'm not preaching - actually I don't give a stuff about Megatrain, which is IMHO a flawed system right through (for another time!). I'm just letting you know my opinions, and that exploiting loopholes regularly or in a flagrant manner usually ends in the loopholes being closed by the powers that be. I would still advise against provoking action against yourself if you want the easy life!

Megatrain is the only way some people can afford intercity travel.

 

[AlterEgo]

Well, it's up to the OP if he goes ahead and breaks his journey. There are arguments and counter arguments to be heard! Certainly this thread has spawned 8 pages of quite useful discussion. I would be lying if I said I hadn't learnt something today!

I do hope the OP has a good trip. Time will tell if we really have picked a hole in Megatrain...

 

[AlterEgo]

These people work on the railways and should, above customers, be treated with more respect than customers, because if anything goes wrong, they WILL assist no matter what!

Sorry, completely off topic, but I have to call this one out. Rail staff and customer should have equal respect for one another. Problems arise when one party forgets how important the other one is...

Btw, I'm staff, not a cranky annual season ticket holder!

 

[Turbocharger]

Sorry, completely off topic, but I have to call this one out. Rail staff and customer should have equal respect for one another. Problems arise when one party forgets how important the other one is...

Btw, I'm staff, not a cranky annual season ticket holder!

lol ok non annual season ticket holder. The point is staff with legal rights to travel (edit sorry should have added "for free") get hassle, so why should a customer paying for a ticket knowing the T&Cs, be allowed to abuse it?

If they know the T&Cs that come with it, why say they want our comments about breaking those T&Cs?

This is getting so strange! Does anyone else agree? Or just me?

 

[yorkie]

Still waiting for an answer as to why the OP wanted to know our thoughts on breaking T&Cs on a ticket.

No-one is compelled to answer any question put to them on this forum, or should be made to feel that they are.

As if our thoughts and views will make it legal for him to travel as he has planned?

That suggests that it is illegal. Can you back up this claim as if not I am minded to remove it on the basis that it adds no value to the topic, and/or that it is incorrect information.

I also refer you to John @ Home's post, which you have ignored (as is your right; but it does weaken your argument), if we're talking in legal terms then I would take John @ Home's posts very seriously indeed, and would need some convincing of any argument against them. So far none have been forthcoming.

Even AlterEgo does not make any claim that the OP is acting "illegally", and given his position, again I need some convincing that this is not the case, and so far no good reasons have been forthcoming.

 

[All Line Rover]

Could we please stop going on about car park tickets, as I really don't see the relevance to this thread.

Anyway, this is my summary directed to the OP:

I think the point AlterEgo is trying to make is that it isn't worth the hassle because of the chance of running into difficulties when alighting early. Whether you agree or disagree with that is up to you.

Furthermore, if you do decide to go ahead with it (as it clearly isn't illegal if you follow John@Home's advice, and probably still isn't illegal if you just get off at WVH because there is no term prohibiting it) it is extremely unwise to tell everybody about it on here.

You never know, Virgin's management might be reading this thread and decide to put an RPI at WVH to catch you out!

You are extremely unlikely to get "fined" because what you are doing is not currently illegal, but if you make a big issue of it yourself and "give ideas" to people who read this thread, it is most likely that the Megatrain T&C's will be amended so as to prohibit what you plan to do.

 

[yorkie]

Could we please stop going on about car park tickets, as I really don't see the relevance to this thread.

Agreed, they have now been removed. The feedback we get regarding the fares section is that people value the really useful views expressed here however sometimes things do go way off-topic and I have had people tell me that they don't want to wade through loads of irrelevant posts. That's not necessarily the 'fault' of any one individual, and I hope no-one is offended when we do these tidy-ups (the PM makes it clear that the deletion of a post does not mean a rule has been broken), though it is completely impossible (and sometimes counter-productive) not to mention time consuming for us to fully achieve that aim. But we will try our best.

I don't think there is any new evidence likely to be presented to this topic, so I am minded to close it shortly, as we're having the same stuff repeated. I do note the lack of challenge to John @ Home's excellent analysis though!

 

[Butts]

As the original thread has been closed I thought I would let you all know what happened !!!

I boarded the 1852 Edinburgh to Birmingham Virgin Service - it was from platform 11 so no pre-boarding ticket check.

So much for the theory it was "a quiet service" it was rammed however got a seat ok (no seat reservation with £1 special)

My printout of my reservation (ticket) was checked just outside Edinburgh by the TM interestingly all she did was stamp the paper, no apparent check was made of the reservation on her ticket machine.

The crew changed at Preston and as advised I was going to ask the new TM if it would be ok to get off at Wolverhampton and catch my Sandwell & Dudley train for which I already had a ticket.

Suprise - there was no further Ticket Check and the TM didn't materialise.

It was with some trepidation that I alighted the service at Wolverhampton half expecting a "welcoming committee" of RPI'S and / or BTP.

However boringly my fears were unfounded I crossed from Platform 4 to Platform 3 and boarded the waiting 2245 service to London Euston which of course stops at Sandwell & Dudley.

No ticket check was carried out on this short hop or at Sandwell & Dudley.



So the "Eagle had Landed" without having to check the legality of "John at Homes" excellent thesis on the subject.

 

[All Line Rover]

As the original thread has been closed I thought I would let you all know what happened !!!

I boarded the 1852 Edinburgh to Birmingham Virgin Service - it was from platform 11 so no pre-boarding ticket check.

So much for the theory it was "a quiet service" it was rammed however got a seat ok (no seat reservation with £1 special)

My printout of my reservation (ticket) was checked just outside Edinburgh by the TM interestingly all she did was stamp the paper, no apparent check was made of the reservation on her ticket machine.

The crew changed at Preston and as advised I was going to ask the new TM if it would be ok to get off at Wolverhampton and catch my Sandwell & Dudley train for which I already had a ticket.

Suprise - there was no further Ticket Check and the TM didn't materialise.

It was with some trepidation that I alighted the service at Wolverhampton half expecting a "welcoming committee" of RPI'S and / or BTP.

However boringly my fears were unfounded I crossed from Platform 4 to Platform 3 and boarded the waiting 2245 service to London Euston which of course stops at Sandwell & Dudley.

No ticket check was carried out on this short hop or at Sandwell & Dudley.



So the "Eagle had Landed" without having to check the legality of "John at Homes" excellent thesis on the subject.

I'm glad it went fine - in my opinion it is more than reasonable for you to be allowed to get off at Wolverhampton - but for goodness sake don't mention your "success story" on this public forum! Doing so will only encourage Virgin to clamp down!

 

[Greenback]

I'm glad it went fine - in my opinion it is more than reasonable for you to be allowed to get off at Wolverhampton - but for goodness sake don't mention your "success story" on this public forum! Doing so will only encourage Virgin to clamp down!

Having read John@Home's analysis, I don't believe that there is any legal grounds for Virgin to be able to clamp down.

Maybe this will lead to the T&C's for Megatrain being updated, maybe not. Maybe it will lead to megatrain tickets being withdrawn, maybe not. As far as my view goes, Megatrain should be abolished!