Ketton Somersault Signal

[RKynaston]

Can anyone tell me if the Somersault signal that was at Ketton is still present and in use? I dont recall seeing any references anywhere to it going, but equally, cannot recall seeing any images lately?

 

[edwin_m]

It is actually a Midland lower quadrant, being on an ex-Midland route. Somersault signals were a Great Northern idea, distinguished by having the arm pivot on a bracket offset to the left of the post itself, and rotating to nearly vertical when "off".

This page suggests it was still there in 2021: https://www.nrmfriends.org.uk/post/a-signal-achievement

However, the most remarkable feature about Ketton was the Up starter signal which was still a wooden post ex Midland Railway lower quadrant, probably dating from when the signal box was commissioned around 1900. More surprising still, the signal is still in use to this day! Operationally, it is not really required with Ketton now just a ‘block post’ controlling the road crossing, but sentiment seems to have ensured its survival to become something of a celebrity as almost certainly the oldest signal still in daily use on the national rail network.

The photo on that link also shows it positioned to the right, with a track between it and the track it applies to. This must also now be highly unusual (not counting co-actors where there is also another signal in the "normal" place).

There was also a lower quadrant signal on the goods lines at Leicester for many years, opposite the station platforms and easily visible. I assume this went with resignalling around 1987.

 

[Unobrow]

Yes it’s still there and in use.

 

[John Webb]

A view of it from 2015:
Ketton Down Starter signal

© Copyright Alan Murray-Rust and licensed for reuse under this Creative Commons Licence.
(Click on the photo to go to the larger image on the Geograph website.)
It's sited on the outside of a bend for better sighting by train drivers.

 

[RKynaston]

@Unobrow
Many thanks, thats great. I presume there are no plans to remove it??

 

[Unobrow]

@Unobrow
Many thanks, thats great. I presume there are no plans to remove it??

I couldn’t say not being NR infra. However, I’d hazard a guess itll be there for a while to come. Unless it suffers a major issue/failure or they plan to resign all the whole line, I can’t see the point in the expense. It’s not a “problem” signal, so should experience many more moons yet!

 

[David57]

Can it be photographed from a public road?

 

[John Webb]

Can it be photographed from a public road?

It is just visible from the level crossing next to Ketton signal box. But there is a public footpath crossing the line about halfway between the level crossing and the signal - that's where the photo in my post above (#4) was taken from.

 

[Tomnick]

It's being replaced by a two-aspect colour light signal in the next few weeks.

 

[Sheridan]

The photo on that link also shows it positioned to the right, with a track between it and the track it applies to. This must also now be highly unusual (not counting co-actors where there is also another signal in the "normal" place).

Helsby’s up outer home is on the right hand side of the down line. This is a junction signal with two separate posts, each with a single signal arm (the higher for the route ahead to Chester, the lower for the route to Ellesmere Port). It’s positioned that way due to the curve on approach.

The last signal before Crewe Junction when approaching from Gobowen is on the left, but beyond the exit line from Coton Hill sidings.

 

[4F89]

Helsby’s up outer home is on the right hand side of the down line. This is a junction signal with two separate posts, each with a single signal arm (the higher for the route ahead to Chester, the lower for the route to Ellesmere Port). It’s positioned that way due to the curve on approach.

The last signal before Crewe Junction when approaching from Gobowen is on the left, but beyond the exit line from Coton Hill sidings.

Raise you Abergavenny towards Shrewsbury just before the platform, it's faaaaar to the left of running line, and Pontrilas heading south, similar to Helsby, right of opposite line

 

[MadMac]

It's being replaced by a two-aspect colour light signal in the next few weeks.

View attachment 198670

Which has apparently been erected backwards…..

 

[edwin_m]

Which has apparently been erected backwards…..

Looks to me a different signal positioned to the left for traffic towards the camera. It's a traditional signal head rather than one of the lightweight types that would be used for a new installation, and the amount of green slime on the post suggests it's been there a while.

 

[Tomnick]

Which has apparently been erected backwards…..

Apologies, the photo doesn't show the replacement nor was it intended to; it was just one of my own photos that I took a few years ago. The replacement will be in a more conventional position on the left hand side of the line, a little way beyond the position of the existing. Now, I wonder why the Midland Railway put it on the right-hand side

 

[Sun Chariot]

Now, I wonder why the Midland Railway put it on the right-hand side

It's on a fairly tight / blind left curve. Many signals were placed outboard of the line in question, to aid sufficient sighting and safe stopping distance.

 

[Tomnick]

It's on a fairly tight / blind left curve. Many signals were placed outboard of the line in question, to aid sufficient sighting and safe stopping distance.

Spot on – which is why I'm somewhat surprised that its replacement will be on the left hand side!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Spot on – which is why I'm somewhat surprised that its replacement will be on the left hand side!

Advances in braking, since?

 

[Rescars]

Perhaps it will be easier to see now the driver is at the front of the train and not behind a boiler. Were Midland locos right hand drive?

 

[LowLevel]

Midland locos were originally right hand drive which will have made the matters worse had the signal been on the left.

I was going to say that despite optimistic noises further up I had heard the signal's days were numbered to the point of it's replacement being fairly imminent. NR isn't making much progress on shutting mechanical boxes at the minute, but it is life extending them which is spelling the end for a lot of semaphore signals and older colour lights being replaced by new structures.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Spot on – which is why I'm somewhat surprised that its replacement will be on the left hand side!

Could a repeater be installed?

 

[Sun Chariot]

I was going to say that despite optimistic noises further up I had heard the signal's days were numbered to the point of it's replacement being fairly imminent.

For infrastructure of historic interest/value, such as Ketton's Home, does NR auction off - or offer to sell to heritage entity - rather than destroy the artefact?
With Scarborough's fine gantry used, in part, on the NYMR, it's certainly not a new thing.
I'd love to see Ketton's signal on display or in use at, say, The Midland Railway Centre.

 

[skyhigh]

NR isn't making much progress on shutting mechanical boxes at the minute, but it is life extending them which is spelling the end for a lot of semaphore signals and older colour lights being replaced by new structures.

This is correct - Harrogate is also losing all the semaphores this year.

 

[edwin_m]

For infrastructure of historic interest/value, such as Ketton's Home, does NR auction off - or offer to sell to heritage entity - rather than destroy the artefact?
With Scarborough's fine gantry used, in part, on the NYMR, it's certainly not a new thing.
I'd love to see Ketton's signal on display or in use at, say, The Midland Railway Centre.

I'd like to think it would be preserved in one form or another. It's a while since I went to Butterley but I seem to recall them having numerous Midland signals and boxes in various states of decay, so maybe this one deserves a place in the National Railway Museum instead.

 

[Sun Chariot]

I'd like to think it would be preserved in one form or another. It's a while since I went to Butterley but I seem to recall them having numerous Midland signals and boxes in various states of decay, so maybe this one deserves a place in the National Railway Museum instead.

I personally prefer seeing things in use rather than "stuffed 'n' mounted".
You make a very good point re: those other S&T "preserved in decay" so perhaps a rot-free environment is more favourable.

 

[John Webb]

I'd like to think it would be preserved in one form or another. It's a while since I went to Butterley but I seem to recall them having numerous Midland signals and boxes in various states of decay, so maybe this one deserves a place in the National Railway Museum instead.

Or we might take it on at the MR St Albans South Box? It would be mounted but not stuffed as we try to keep our signals in working order for our visitors to operate.

 

[edwin_m]

Or we might take it on at the MR St Albans South Box? It would be mounted but not stuffed as we try to keep our signals in working order for our visitors to operate.

That would seem an ideal outcome if you're able to accommodate it.

 

[John Webb]

That would seem an ideal outcome if you're able to accommodate it.

We keep getting new signals to put up, but for such an icon I'm pretty certain we could find room!

 

[StanFromEccles]

Anyone know if the Ketton semaphore is still working or has already been replaced?

 

[berwicksfinest]

Anyone know if the Ketton semaphore is still working or has already been replaced?

I worked 6M44 through Ketton, Friday. Certainly in operation then (no sign of a replacement too)

 

[LowLevel]

It was meant to go this weekend. Don't know if it actually did.