Open plan ticket offices

[dmncf]

I understand that stations such as Oxford Parkway, Bicester Village and Reading Green Park have open plan ticket offices, where tickets are sold from behind a desk rather than via a glass screen from a staff-only room.

Do these open plan ticket offices accept cash and give change?

Is one of the reasons for open plan ticket offices that the same staff member can also monitor the ticket gate line at quieter times?

 

[800002]

Is one of the reasons for open plan ticket offices that the same staff member can also monitor the ticket gate line at quieter times?

Public consultation on Chiltern Railways ticket office change | Chiltern Railways

Ticket office consultation feedbackTicket Office consultation feedbackThank you to our customers and stakeholders who submitted responses to the consultation on the ticket office changes.

www.chilternrailways.co.uk

From Chilterns website around the time of the proposed changes to ticket offices:

What was the proposal?​

Under the proposals, ticket office colleagues would transition to multi-skilled ‘customer help’ roles - already in place in many parts of the network, such as Bicester Village and Oxford Parkway Stations.

 

[DelW]

I understand that stations such as Oxford Parkway, Bicester Village and Reading Green Park have open plan ticket offices, where tickets are sold from behind a desk rather than via a glass screen from a staff-only room.

Do these open plan ticket offices accept cash and give change?

Is one of the reasons for open plan ticket offices that the same staff member can also monitor the ticket gate line at quieter times?

My local bank branch (Natwest) is open plan albeit with fixed desks, and that certainly deals in cash, and in substantial amounts. I assume there are security measures in case someone tries to walk round to the "staff" side of the desk and help themselves, but I've no idea how they work. It's been that way since a refurb around a decade ago, and it doesn't seem to have caused any problems.

 

[Alex365Dash]

I understand that stations such as Oxford Parkway, Bicester Village and Reading Green Park have open plan ticket offices, where tickets are sold from behind a desk rather than via a glass screen from a staff-only room.

The same is also true at Gatwick Airport, where standing desks are available beside the ticket machines which customers are encouraged to use instead (provided they’re not both going to London and have a contactless card).

 

[Russel]

Presumably the number of cash transactions is fairly low these days so the TOC perceive any risk to be low.

Playing devils advocate for a second, shop assistance in supermarkets probably take more cash in a day than a lot of station booking offices and they don't serve from behind a full glass partition.

 

[FR510]

Connex experimented with open plan ticket offices in the early 2000s which were also grocery shops and even a post office too. Chatham, Gillingham, Sutton, Cooden Beach were I think at least some locations. But when Connex were sacked from the SE franchise, Chatham and Gillingham were quickly converted back into traditional behind glass ticket offices by the next operator.

 

[Dstock7080]

Twyford platform 1, unveiled its open plan ticket desk in December

 

[davetheguard]

Exeter Central's ticket office is currently being moved, as part of a scheme for a new longer gateline. They are currently selling tickets from behind a desk, possibly to become permanent?

 

[Bletchleyite]

My local bank branch (Natwest) is open plan albeit with fixed desks, and that certainly deals in cash, and in substantial amounts. I assume there are security measures in case someone tries to walk round to the "staff" side of the desk and help themselves, but I've no idea how they work. It's been that way since a refurb around a decade ago, and it doesn't seem to have caused any problems.

My Dad used to be a manager for the TSB, and they toyed with this idea quite early on. What they did was make the staff effectively be operating ATMs (i.e. automatic teller machines) on behalf of the customers - that is, they had to log a withdrawal on the system and the system would produce the requested amount from a secure dispenser (they couldn't access the cash without withdrawing it from an account), and when depositing they had the "counter cache" type systems supermarkets do for large bundles of notes, so the cash was pretty secure, not just out in the open as it was behind the glass.

As for ticket offices, it's no different to a supermarket checkout in terms of the usual amounts being dealt with - at smaller booking offices like Merseyrail not even that, it's comparable to a corner shop.

There is an element of protecting staff from assault that isn't connected to the presence or otherwise of cash (or preprinted tickets in the old days), but that isn't really applicable everywhere.

 

[stadler]

Connex experimented with open plan ticket offices in the early 2000s which were also grocery shops and even a post office too. Chatham, Gillingham, Sutton, Cooden Beach were I think at least some locations. But when Connex were sacked from the SE franchise, Chatham and Gillingham were quickly converted back into traditional behind glass ticket offices by the next operator.

It was a trial of combining ticket offices with convinience shops. Connex merged the ticket office in to a shop also selling newspapers and magazines and food and drink. It was run by a third party rather than Connex employed staff.



Cooden Beach and Leatherhead were the first two stations to get this. I think this lasted less than two years before the project was scrapped and they were converted back to normal ticket offices. It was certainly very short lived.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Liverpool Central has a ticket office which is part of a convenience store.

 

[birchesgreen]

My local bank branch (Natwest) is open plan albeit with fixed desks, and that certainly deals in cash, and in substantial amounts. I assume there are security measures in case someone tries to walk round to the "staff" side of the desk and help themselves, but I've no idea how they work. It's been that way since a refurb around a decade ago, and it doesn't seem to have caused any problems.

My Halifax is the same, i guess we're a long way from the days when blokes would put one of the missus' stockings over his head and head into the bank to do a blag.

 

[Djgr]

Liverpool Central has a ticket office which is part of a convenience store.

This was part of the MtoGo idea, which wasn't a great success because stations generally had a convenience store about 2 mins away where prices for almost everything they sold (apart from tickets!) were much lower (e.g. Liverpool Central- Sainsbury's Local).

But it does mean that there are number of Merseyrail ticket offices that are now open plan (i.e. staff not hidden behind a screen).

Don't think this is complete but Liverpool Central, Moorfields, Liverpool Lime Street (lower), Hamilton Square.

 

[FR510]

It was a trial of combining ticket offices with convinience shops. Connex merged the ticket office in to a shop also selling newspapers and magazines and food and drink. It was run by a third party rather than Connex employed staff.

View attachment 198307

Cooden Beach and Leatherhead were the first two stations to get this. I think this lasted less than two years before the project was scrapped and they were converted back to normal ticket offices. It was certainly very short lived.

At Chatham and Gillingham most of the staff were employed by Connex, except some agency staff now and again. Don't know about the others though.

 

[plugwash]

It's quite common in larger stations for the ticket offices to be desks rather than windows, but those desks are usually in a dedicated room that can be locked up out of hours, rather than out in the main passenger corridors.

 

[DarloRich]

Are supermarket checkout open plan? They are not behind glass and I bet they take more cash on a daily basis than a railway station. They seem fairly secure.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are supermarket checkout open plan? They are not behind glass and I bet they take more cash on a daily basis than a railway station. They seem fairly secure.

Supermarkets are generally open, but off licences are often behind glass in rough areas, those are probably more analogous to a small booking office with no security provision on site. That said alcohol is probably uniquely associated with violence and there is all the stock there which is of considerable value even were there no cash.

The amount of notes in the till can be kept down by way of those "counter cache" devices I mention upthread. I've not noticed supermarkets going as far as the staff-operated vending machine type approach banks used or use, other than in Germany where coin change is sometimes issued by a machine for speed of operation rather than security.

 

[DarloRich]

Supermarkets are generally open, but off licences are often behind glass in rough areas, those are probably more analogous to a small booking office with no security provision on site.

Surely that is a COVID hang over though? I know some pretty rough spots in the north east and in pre COVID olden days they tended not to have screens. A bat under the counter maybe but not screens

Now most have left up the plastic sheeting they put up during covid. Even my corner shop still has it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely that is a COVID hang over though?

In part it will be, but it depends how rough the area is. I remember the one I occasionally used in Rusholme, Manchester, being fully behind glass in the late 1990s.

With regard to stations it probably matters (a) how rough it is and (b) how much security is on site. I don't think Manchester Piccadilly being open plan would be a problem, there is plenty of security provision there. Aughton Park would probably be OK too just because it's posh, same with somewhere like Harrogate. But I doubt anyone would be willing to work the booking office at say Kirkdale or Brunswick without being behind glass.

 

[The exile]

In part it will be, but it depends how rough the area is. I remember the one I occasionally used in Rusholme, Manchester, being fully behind glass in the late 1990s.

With regard to stations it probably matters (a) how rough it is and (b) how much security is on site. I don't think Manchester Piccadilly being open plan would be a problem, there is plenty of security provision there. Aughton Park would probably be OK too just because it's posh, same with somewhere like Harrogate. But I doubt anyone would be willing to work the booking office at say Kirkdale or Brunswick without being behind glass.

Unlike most supermarkets, many stations have got crowds of potential witnesses around to deter the slightly more than petty thieves (grabbing a till drawer - However traumatic For the victim - is hardly going to net you the equivalent of Brinks-Mat.

 

[takno]

Surely that is a COVID hang over though? I know some pretty rough spots in the north east and in pre COVID olden days they tended not to have screens. A bat under the counter maybe but not screens

Now most have left up the plastic sheeting they put up during covid. Even my corner shop still has it.

When threshers went bust they had 4 screen stores in Scotland, out of well over a hundred stores in total. It wasn't anything to do with cash or staff safety, it was to protect the expensive and easy-to-grab alcohol, particularly from the rampaging gangs of kids who couldn't buy it if they wanted to. None of that is applicable to ticket offices.

 

[DarloRich]

But I doubt anyone would be willing to work the booking office at say Kirkdale or Brunswick without being behind glass.

I take that point - I was more looking at cash handling of which there must be a secure system ( that we don't really need to discuss )

 

[Uncle Buck]

When threshers went bust they had 4 screen stores in Scotland, out of well over a hundred stores in total. It wasn't anything to do with cash or staff safety, it was to protect the expensive and easy-to-grab alcohol, particularly from the rampaging gangs of kids who couldn't buy it if they wanted to. None of that is applicable to ticket offices.

I am slightly embarrassed to confess that there is a shop round the corner from me that has metal, prison-style bars over the till.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Supermarkets are generally open, but off licences are often behind glass in rough areas, those are probably more analogous to a small booking office with no security provision on site.

The little Tesco next door to Epsom railway station was given a fully enclosed glass surround to the staffed checkouts a few months ago, following an incident about a year ago in which someone had their hand cut off in the store...!!

Prior to that it had normal style open checkouts.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The little Tesco next door to Epsom railway station was given a fully enclosed glass surround to the staffed checkouts a few months ago, following an incident about a year ago in which someone had their hand cut off in the store...!!

Prior to that it had normal style open checkouts.

The one on Fishergate at the top of Preston station does as well if I recall. Can be a bit rough round there at night with drunks from the various pubs. Probably also justifies Preston station booking office being behind glass too, though I don't recall ever seeing a threatening situation of any kind in the station itself despite it being fully open (and very hard to gate without major layout changes).

 

[jon81uk]

Presumably the number of cash transactions is fairly low these days so the TOC perceive any risk to be low.

Playing devils advocate for a second, shop assistance in supermarkets probably take more cash in a day than a lot of station booking offices and they don't serve from behind a full glass partition.

Although many Tesco Express stores now do have full glass around the staffed checkouts, even with bars around the section you push the basket into preventing anything or anyone being pushed up and into the staff area, just enough for the basket.

 

[Russel]

Although many Tesco Express stores now do have full glass around the staffed checkouts, even with bars around the section you push the basket into preventing anything or anyone being pushed up and into the staff area, just enough for the basket.

True, thought I've only seen that in a couple of very urban areas.

A sad reflection of society in certain areas.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Supermarkets are generally open, but off licences are often behind glass in rough areas, those are probably more analogous to a small booking office with no security provision on site. That said alcohol is probably uniquely associated with violence and there is all the stock there which is of considerable value even were there no cash.

The amount of notes in the till can be kept down by way of those "counter cache" devices I mention upthread. I've not noticed supermarkets going as far as the staff-operated vending machine type approach banks used or use, other than in Germany where coin change is sometimes issued by a machine for speed of operation rather than security.

There's a couple of Tesco stores that I know of that have the screens - Halifax town centre and Roffey (Horsham), the Halifax one is fairly recent as it never use to have the safety screen where as Roffey is coupled with an Esso which is more understandable.

Back to open plan ticket offices, Castleford bus station is/was open plan and that only accepted card payment whereas the railway station remains unstaffed.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

It's quite common in larger stations for the ticket offices to be desks rather than windows, but those desks are usually in a dedicated room that can be locked up out of hours, rather than out in the main passenger corridors.

When the "new" station building was opened at Newport in 2010, the main ticket office was on the main concourse and protected by glass screens, in the same way as the old ticket office had been. However, after a couple of years, a glass wall with doors was constructed around the area which provided a separate area from the waiting area inside the doors of the building.

Last week, though, the wall was removed and we're back to where we were when the building was opened. The desks are still protected by glass screens, and I think that it's a much better use of what is (and always has been) a fairly small area. The area used by the desks is secure, as there's no (and never has been) any public access.

Incidentally, I asked someone (not a member of railway staff) whether he knew why the walls had originally been installed, and he said that the sun was affecting the vision of the staff sitting at the desks ... I don't know whether this is true, but if it was, it will now do so again!

 

[Whisky Papa]

In part it will be, but it depends how rough the area is. I remember the one I occasionally used in Rusholme, Manchester, being fully behind glass in the late 1990s.

With regard to stations it probably matters (a) how rough it is and (b) how much security is on site. I don't think Manchester Piccadilly being open plan would be a problem, there is plenty of security provision there. Aughton Park would probably be OK too just because it's posh, same with somewhere like Harrogate. But I doubt anyone would be willing to work the booking office at say Kirkdale or Brunswick without being behind glass.

Indeed not, and as a former station ticket office staff member, mostly as a lone-worker at small outstations around Manchester, I occasionally have to suppress my emotions when I read snide comments from people who have never done the job about staff 'hiding behind glass.' Other functions around the station required you to leave the office, so 'hiding' is hardly appropriate, but for the security of the cash (much more prevalent 15 yeas ago, of course) then a secure base was essential.

And all that said, I did actually thrive when I moved to an open desk at a larger station's travel centre, partly because there was a presence of several other staff nearby and partly because it was easier to have a 'real' conversation with the customers. Naturally it required great attention to detail to keep the cash takings secure, but that soon became second nature.