Leeds-York after TRU

[Harvey10]

Hi I’m just wondering does anyone know what the service plan is for Northern after the TRU works?
I’m hearing plans to join the Bradford Forster Square-Leeds and the Leeds-York stopper together.

 

[stevieinselby]

Hi I’m just wondering does anyone know what the service plan is for Northern after the TRU works?
I’m hearing plans to join the Bradford Forster Square-Leeds and the Leeds-York stopper together.

I would be very surprised if that was the case. At the moment, Leeds has seven west-facing bay platforms that have direct access to the Airedale/Wharfedale and Harrogate lines without crossing the mainline, which are ideally suited to those suburban services as well as the S&C and Bentham Line services – while the York to Leeds stopper has exclusive use of east-facing bay platform 7. They have ample capacity for those terminating trains, while the through platforms are busier. At the moment, there are 2tph from BFS to Leeds but only 1tph stopper from Leeds to York – would there be capacity for a second stopper even after TRU? Even if there was, linking the two together seems like a recipe to propagate delays and disruption across the network. There are already through services between York and Bradford for people who want them, the benefits of such a change would be small and the risks significant.

 

[YorksLad12]

I would be very surprised if that was the case. At the moment, Leeds has seven west-facing bay platforms that have direct access to the Airedale/Wharfedale and Harrogate lines without crossing the mainline, which are ideally suited to those suburban services as well as the S&C and Bentham Line services – while the York to Leeds stopper has exclusive use of east-facing bay platform 7. They have ample capacity for those terminating trains, while the through platforms are busier. At the moment, there are 2tph from BFS to Leeds but only 1tph stopper from Leeds to York – would there be capacity for a second stopper even after TRU? Even if there was, linking the two together seems like a recipe to propagate delays and disruption across the network. There are already through services between York and Bradford for people who want them, the benefits of such a change would be small and the risks significant.

Agreed. It's much more likely to be linked to the Huddersfield-Leeds stopper (all-electric) or Doncaster-Leeds stopper (all-electric) services, if anything, as that would free up one of the central bays. And there's already a Bradford (Interchange) - York service.

Leeds/Bradford FS/Skipton/Ilkley services will 'soon' be housed at the new depot south of Shipley, so unless there's a need to cycle them through Neville Hill once in a while I think services will stay on that side.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Agreed. It's much more likely to be linked to the Huddersfield-Leeds stopper (all-electric) or Doncaster-Leeds stopper (all-electric) services, if anything, as that would free up one of the central bays. And there's already a Bradford (Interchange) - York service.

Leeds/Bradford FS/Skipton/Ilkley services will 'soon' be housed at the new depot south of Shipley, so unless there's a need to cycle them through Neville Hill once in a while I think services will stay on that side.

I'd be surprised if Shipley will be able to do all the work that Neville Hill does. Even if most things can be done at Shipley, I'd be surprised if the new facility is specced to include a wheel lathe for example.

 

[JonathanH]

It's much more likely to be linked to the Huddersfield-Leeds stopper (all-electric) or Doncaster-Leeds stopper (all-electric) services, if anything, as that would free up one of the central bays.

Linking two two-track routes across Leeds that also have through faster trains needs stopping trains to be 'looped' at Leeds which occupies more platforms. Creating 'rolling blocks' by linking stopping trains isn't helpful.

 

[yorksrob]

The main thing needed between Leeds and York is to get the cost down.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Linking two two-track routes across Leeds that also have through faster trains needs stopping trains to be 'looped' at Leeds which occupies more platforms. Creating 'rolling blocks' by linking stopping trains isn't helpful.

Agreed. The capacity pinches at Leeds aren't for terminating trains, so there's no operational reason to link the stoppers either side. If the timetable just happened to line up so that such a link would provide an opportunity to reduce the number of unit diagrams required, then there may be a case, but otherwise it's probably better to keep things simple. Leeds has two York-facing bays, only one of which gets anything close to frequent use. York stoppers should continue to operate as standalone services even once they're electric.

 

[deltic08]

Some people will remember the plan WYPTE/Metro had. They planned to reinstate the Cross Gates-Wetherby line as far as the A64 with reinstated stations at Penda's Way and Scholes with a park and ride station at the A64 using class 144 Pacers used on cross city services from Bradford FS terminating at the A64 station instead of a west end bay platform. At about the same time Leeds NW electrification was authorised therefore electric trains would not be able to be used from Neville Hill terminating on the Wetherby branch unless WYPTE/Metro electrified from Neville Hill. Metro could not afford to reinstate the branch as well as electrification from Neville Hill so the proposal was abandoned. Route protection was unfortunately cancelled in 2001 and development is now taking place over the trackbed in the Stanks area.
Requadrifying from Cross Gate to Marsh Lane cutting has been applied for together with electrification so Metros plan could come to fruition especially when so much housing is taking place in this corridor. Sadly the West Yorkshire Mayor, Tracy Brabin, is totally disinterested in resurrecting this essential mass transport proposal and proposes use of 500+ polluting buses into an already gridlocked Leeds city centre in the peaks.

 

[YorksLad12]

To be clear: I'm not suggesting that they *should* be cross-linked, only that there's more chance of them so being than the Bradford option!

Watch now, as Northern proposes a Bradford FS-Leeds-York all-stops service...

 

[Halifaxlad]

Agreed. The capacity pinches at Leeds aren't for terminating trains, so there's no operational reason to link the stoppers either side. If the timetable just happened to line up so that such a link would provide an opportunity to reduce the number of unit diagrams required, then there may be a case, but otherwise it's probably better to keep things simple. Leeds has two York-facing bays, only one of which gets anything close to frequent use. York stoppers should continue to operate as standalone services even once they're electric.

Its a pity Hull isn't being electrified too as then you could have another triangle between Leeds, Hull & York.