Future Rolling Stock spec for regional express services from London.

[William3000]

In recent years there has been considerable new stock for intercity services with new trains being introduced on the Great Western And East Coast Mainlines as well as the Great Eastern and Midland mainline.

While I know there isn’t an immediate need for replacements at the moment - what should what I can best describe as regional express trains that start from or end in London - future ideal specifications be. I’m talking about lines such as
London Marylebone to Birmingham Snow Hill/Moor Street, London King’s Cross to King’s Lynn, London Waterloo to Salisbury/Exeter St David’s, London Waterloo to Bournemouth/Weymouth, London Paddington to Worcester, London St Pancras to Corby/Melton Mowbray, London Waterloo to Portsmouth, etc.

I appreciate there is a mix of AC, DC, and Diesel here but I’m more talking about configuration of carriages, comfort, capacity etc. it seems to me that these services differ from intercity trains in that they are typically medium rather than long distance - taking between 1hr 30 and 2hrs 30, and typically run fast with limited stops for around 45 mins to an hour thereafter stopping at most places. On these trains some have end of carriage vestibules - such as Chiltern to Birmingham and South West Trains to Weymouth while others have doors at third intervals like King’s Lynn.

Just interested to hear what others think is an optimal long term solution for such routes. How many carriages should there be/train length etc. Door configurations? Buffet or trolley service or nothing? First class option or standard class throughout? Reading lights? Tables? 2+2 seating? If including 1st class should it be 2+1 or 2+2? WiFi options/plug sockets/charging etc)? Cycle storage?

 

[DS25]

Maybe the Siemens Desiro Verve would be good for these routes? I'd also say the Desiro Verve's could be used by XC 170/TPE 185 and the EMR Liv-Norwich routes. I'd have them ordered as 5 cars (maybe 3 for some operations)

 

[brad465]

GWR, SWR and Chiltern were last year reported to be looking at a combined fleet order, so it's possible these will get something very similar, just with variations on power source:

GWR, SWR and Chiltern possible combined fleet order - Philip Haigh

(Apologies if there is a thread not easily labelled on this already) According to Philip Haigh the DfT are talking to these three TOCs about replacing their diesel fleets within the same order: https://x.com/philatrail/status/1945423791624016286 DfT is talking with GWR, SWR and Chiltern about...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[VT 390]

Just interested to hear what others think is an optimal long term solution for such routes. How many carriages should there be/train length etc. Door configurations? Buffet or trolley service or nothing? First class option or standard class throughout? Reading lights? Tables? 2+2 seating? If including 1st class should it be 2+1 or 2+2? WiFi options/plug sockets/charging etc)? Cycle storage?

For regional services where journey times are at least 60 minutes but where there are frequent stops I think having doors at the thirds position is important due to the services often having to manage large crowds at times of the day.
2+2 seating should be standard as it provides a more comfortable environment than 3+2 and also allows for wider aisles, so more standing space. At quieter times 2+2 should allow everyone to get a seat and at busy peak times where some people would rather stand for shorter journeys anyway the better standing space is important.
I personally would like to keep first class as it effectively acts as a way to reserve a seat on routes where seat reservations are not offered but can see the argument for removing first class.

 

[ENC Rail]

Would a design similar to the 195s, 331s or 730/2s work for these routes? They have doors at thirds and 2+2 seating, and already operate on services of similar lengths. There is currently no third rail version of these units though I'd guess it would be possible? Same with batteries, if there is space for them.

 

[William3000]

Maybe the Siemens Desiro Verve would be good for these routes? I'd also say the Desiro Verve's could be used by XC 170/TPE 185 and the EMR Liv-Norwich routes. I'd have them ordered as 5 cars (maybe 3 for some operations)

3 or 5 cars seems way to short given most of the routes I’ve mentioned already have 8 cars

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Class 730/2 but with a low floor section in one vehicle and various power sources would seem ideal for all of these.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I appreciate there is a mix of AC, DC, and Diesel here but I’m more talking about configuration of carriages, comfort, capacity etc. it seems to me that these services differ from intercity trains in that they are typically medium rather than long distance - taking between 1hr 30 and 2hrs 30, and typically run fast with limited stops for around 45 mins to an hour thereafter stopping at most places. On these trains some have end of carriage vestibules - such as Chiltern to Birmingham and South West Trains to Weymouth while others have doors at third intervals like King’s Lynn.

As the trend is to move towards low floor vehicles this will see a natural end to end door rolling stock as the doors will need to be away from the bogies and instead in the middle, as is the case on low floor stuck such as SBB Bahn 2000 hauled stock, SNCF TGVs or the most recent Anglia Intercity Flirts.