EMR Class 222’s - declining reliability

[T74]

Is there any news on 222007 as that’s still not returned after the Bedford Fault a few weeks ago, I’ve not seen anything about it coming into service anytime soon, and surely that ones got to go into the ‘dire pile’ for 222 performances

I’m sure 007 was along side the main shed near main line on Tuesday as I went past

 

[tram21]

222013 cancelled at Leicester, presumably due to going down to 2 engines.

 

[Railperf]

222013 cancelled at Leicester, presumably due to going down to 2 engines.

Yes , the berth timings suggest it was really struggling to accelerate from stations on its first run from Nottingham on 1B16, 1 minute slower away from East Midlands than a good 222, 45 seconds slower from Loughborough , 2.5 mins slower leaving Market harborough, and over a minute slower away from Kettering despite not having anything close in front. Slower than some of the slowest times I recorded this week.
On 1D23 it was 2.5 mins amd 1.5 mins slower accelerating away from Kettering and Market Harborough respectively - so really struggling.

It's shocking that such a poor unit would even be sent out. Unit 13 has been one of the slower units for a few days now!

It didn't help that a 222 had to deputise for an 810 today.

 

[Dood75]

222013 cancelled at Leicester, presumably due to going down to 2 engines.

And also 222104 on 1C47 has been curtailed on its southbound journey to St Pancras at Leicester

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’ve been on several Voyager carriages where the engine is isolated and strangely, I didn’t really like it.

I know exactly what you mean. It gives a strange sensation in the same way using a stationary escalator does.

 

[dk1]

I know exactly what you mean. It gives a strange sensation in the same way using a stationary escalator does.

That’s a good analogy

 

[Andy Pacer]

And also 222104 on 1C47 has been curtailed on its southbound journey to St Pancras at Leicester

Did pick up its next working (1F47) at Derby so must've been a fairly quick fix.

 

[londonmidland]

1D06 1005 St Pancras International to Nottingham has been loosing time en-route and is now sitting on platform 4 at Leicester. Service delayed due to 'a fault on this train'. Service formed of 222008 and 101.

 

[Andy Pacer]

1D06 1005 St Pancras International to Nottingham has been loosing time en-route and is now sitting on platform 4 at Leicester. Service delayed due to 'a fault on this train'. Service formed of 222008 and 101.

Quite unusual to use platform 4 northbound on Intercity services. I see both units have continued diagram back to London as 1B19.

 

[Railperf]

Friday 13th saw only four seemingly healthy units with a full set of engines working - 6, 9, 17 and 19 - consistently producing good acceleration. Lots of poor units - the worst being units 13, 20 and 101 with 104 's performance dropping off by the end of the day. In fact 104 started off in the group of stronger performers but really deteriorated by the end, seemingly going from five to three engines with a spell of four in the middle of the day.

Saturday 14th Units 6, 15, 17, 18, 19 and 23 the strongest - based on Chesterfield berth data - and other berth sections northbound!

Units 20 and 104 by far the worst, but 104 had a better run in the evening, suggesting it may have been down to three engines at the start but had one restarted and ended the day on four.

Timings between signal berths TN4889 and Y4 0043 vary from 4:02 for a quick Meridian to 4:56 for a slow one.

810's as quick as 4:11 for 810011 and two runs of 4:30 for 810013 suggesting an engine out for that unit.

Around 4:11 is the fastest time on Friday too, achieved by 810013 and a slightly slower runs of 4:13 and 4:16 for 810012

 

[222001]

Friday 13th saw only four seemingly healthy units with a full set of engines working - 6, 9, 17 and 19 - consistently producing good acceleration. Lots of poor units - the worst being units 13, 20 and 101 with 104 's performance dropping off by the end of the day.

Yesterday I was very shocked to get a 10 car with all 10 engines working. 222018+222006. Forgot how much power they have with a full compliment of engines!

I also had 222020 which was on 3 engines, and really struggling on a Sheffield semi-fast.

 

[Railperf]

Yesterday I was very shocked to get a 10 car with all 10 engines working. 222018+222006. Forgot how much power they have with a full compliment of engines!

I also had 222020 which was on 3 engines, and really struggling on a Sheffield semi-fast.

Yes, the 222's (and 22x in general) are absolute rockets with all five engines - and even quicker before the 750hp to 700hp engine derate.
Yes, unit 020 has been in a state for a while now performance wise.
It is a shame the fleet is so stretched that here must be a growing backlog of work to do - as witnessed by the amount of services losing time and / or being cancelled due to traction issues.
The relative reliability of these units is getting DfT / EMR out of jail in respect of minimal service cancellations so far. if this was a fleet of 180's , it would be carnage now!!

 

[D365]

As long as they're maintained to a standard they'll be great. It's all down to recent shoddy maintenance.

Yeah, I suppose at Scotrail they'll be exited about 'new trains' and do what EMR are currently doing with the 810s - discarding the old stock in the back and focusing most the attention on the new ones whilst the old ones slowly fall apart in the background

Incorrect on all counts and borders on insulting to the EMR/Hitachi workforce. Beyond that, I can only echo @dosxuk comments:

I don't get the impression the team at EMR are just letting the old ones slowly fall apart - the issues seem to be much more about needing such a large proportion of the fleet out in service every day that there is such little time to fix minor or medium issues. I'm sure if they could leave a couple more in the depot each day then many of these issues would go away.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Incorrect on all counts and borders on insulting to the EMR/Hitachi workforce. Beyond that, I can only echo @dosxuk comments:

I'm not sure you need to take offence on EMR's behalf. Whether an effort's been made to mitigate it or not, unfortunately their Intercity fleet is a shambles right now and the customer is affected. The Meridians are indeed falling apart, while EMR continue to push good press about the Auroras.

If I tried to bake a cake, and put a lot of effort in, yet still sold it to somebody raw, would you think it insulting to complain about the cake being raw?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Yes, the 222's (and 22x in general) are absolute rockets with all five engines - and even quicker before the 750hp to 700hp engine derate.

Why were the 222s derated? (and were the 220/221s also derated?)

Would it help if they temporarily reverted back to 750bhp as they're struggling quite often or would this make things worse?

 

[Railperf]

Why were the 222s derated? (and were the 220/221s also derated?)

Would it help if they temporarily reverted back to 750bhp as they're struggling quite often or would this make things worse?

MY understanding it was to improve fuel economy and reliability. And yes, it's my undersanding that 220 and 221 were also derated too.
Clearly, if a set is down to 3 engines, another 150hp at the flywheel may help slightly reduce lateness, but most likely puts more load/strain on the engines. At a time when @dosxuk reckons that there is not enough time for units to be atthe depot to have minor issues fixed, you wouldn't want extra strain on the engines.

Assuming EMR could have kept the remaining units - is there enough depot space and resource - bearing in mind that there are five 810's struggling to meet three diagrams, plus the other two 810's needing to be fit for driver training runs?

If anyone is to blame, would it be the individuals who decided not to hire in the ex Avanti 221's to provide some extra cover temporarily?

 

[liamf656]

If anyone is to blame, would it be the individuals who decided not to hire in the ex Avanti 221's to provide some extra cover temporarily?

Which boils down to the DfT, who hold the purse strings and decide whether it's worth spending the money or not (rightly or wrongly)

 

[Railperf]

Which boils down to the DfT, who hold the purse strings and decide whether it's worth spending the money or not (rightly or wrongly)

But with seven 810's on depot , is it reasonable to believe that the previous levels of reliability could have been maintained if the Lumo 222's were available now? IS there sufficient depot space and staff to have maintained those five extra 222's and the seven 810's now on site?

 

[liamf656]

But with seven 810's on depot , is it reasonable to believe that the previous levels of reliability could have been maintained if the Lumo 222's were available now? IS there sufficient depot space and staff to have maintained those five extra 222's and the seven 810's now on site?

Space is limited and may only be able to house one or two extra units at best. Although I'm not sure whether having extra units would improve reliability; I fear It would just give the staff more units to work on and less time to put their effors into the units we already have

 

[londonmidland]

1F47 1902 St Pancras International to Sheffield formed of 222012 is currently at a stand at Ambergate Jn due to 'a fault on this train'. Other services diverting around this affected train via the Broadholme Loops.

 

[stuartl]

The EMR app is also showing that the 20:32 St Pancras to Sheffield has been cancelled 'due to a fault on this train'.

 

[Sparks807Evo]

The issue is that as soon as you start having to isolate engines, and still run the unit in traffic, it puts a greater strain on the other remaining engines. Then it’s a domino effect. I get the impression, as with multiple other fleets across the country and from past experience, they have had to be worked harder and minor issues have led to more significant failures etc.

 

[eastwestdivide]

1F47 1902 St Pancras International to Sheffield formed of 222012 is currently at a stand at Ambergate Jn due to 'a fault on this train'. Other services diverting around this affected train via the Broadholme Loops.

It got moving again, showing 52 late into Sheffield after what looks to be about 20 mins standing at Ambergate and some big losses between Derby and there.

 

[FrontSideBus]

Which boils down to the DfT, who hold the purse strings and decide whether it's worth spending the money or not (rightly or wrongly)

We never really had a privatised railway did we?

 

[Railperf]

The EMR app is also showing that the 20:32 St Pancras to Sheffield has been cancelled 'due to a fault on this train'.

I think this may have been the diagram on which 810 012 failed at Nottingham earlier in the day.

 

[liamf656]

The EMR app is also showing that the 20:32 St Pancras to Sheffield has been cancelled 'due to a fault on this train'.

I'm not entirely sure what happened there but it definitely wasn't a fault. The 2102 was overformed as 10 vice 5 car using the unit from the 2032

I think this may have been the diagram on which 810 012 failed at Nottingham earlier in the day.

It was 222012 (the one that was stopped at Ambergate for a while as mentioned in post #320) that dropped onto the 810 diagram. The 52 minute delay wasn't solely down to the fault on this unit, but mostly due to a line block taking place to check the condition of the track

 

[Wyrleybart]

We never really had a privatised railway did we?

Erm yeah. Who do you think owns (nearly) all the rolling stock

 

[cj_1985]

Erm yeah. Who do you think owns (nearly) all the rolling stock

But Number of units/locos/carriages the operators can order and lease has been specified/restricted by the SRA/DfT... so not truly privatised. Closest we get is the OAOs like HT, GC and Lumo

 

[222001]

On the subject on the current condition of the 222s, I took these photos of 222103 the other day. The leading two coaches appear to be suffering from some serious corrosion! These two coaches are the ones that were repaired after being dropped by Hull Trains - not sure if that has anything to do with it, as I've not noticed it on any others.

 

[Aaron_TTL]

These look in worse shape than the HST & MK3's! As a Scotrail user I sort of dont want them