Can someone please help with a rail fine given to my daughter. Would like to know if any grounds to appeal.

[vikkitheviking]

Hi, seeking advice if I'm right to complain and appeal a rail fine for my daughter.
She was heading to Stafford from Rugeley Trent valley as she does every week. She always purchases a ticket and never fare dodges.
Anyway she had to be in Stafford by 2 and she rang me asking at 12.20 if I could drop her down the station as the 12.21 train was delayed but the next one was cancelled so shs could make that one and still be in Stafford on time .I got her to the station at 12.25 and train was delayed until 12.29

On the way she tried purchasing a ticket on her phone as she always does but it said unable to purchase fare becuase time had passed for first train and second train was cancelled..screenshots attached. She had a few mins to get from my car to the train and she has disabilities so I told her to purchase the ticket as soon as she got on board because the station is unmanned. She boarded the train and used her disabled rail card for purchase an off peak ticket for the next available train if was letting her which was the 2.21.
Its the same train , same off peak time and on her ticket clearly says valid 7th Feb , doesn't state a time. Anyway as she approached Stafford a conductor fined her for purchasing her ticket after boarding! I don't see what else she could have done and clearly says on the website to purchase the ticket on board as soon as you can which she did. Is there something I'm missing here and is she right to be fined? Also to add she is autistic and has other disabilities so didn't explain the situation to the conductor properly at the time but I've appealed it and they have declined?

 

[Snow1964]

The Good thing is you have evidence, sensibly have taken a screenshot of can't sell a ticket.

That means should get a ticket at next opportunity (in theory a vending machine at the station), which may (or may not have been working). If it was working would it have sold the correct ticket.

Luckily the last screen shot makes it clear the official instruction if can't buy is to buy using their free app. But as above have demonstrated this wasn't possible

I think an appeal is justified, as encountered a system that couldn't sell a ticket. (Displaying unable to find a valid fare)

Stupidly (rail process stupid, not Op) if hadn't then managed to buy a ticket on board, but just showed the unable to buy ticket evidence, then penalty wouldn't have been issued (would have been sold ticket instead on the train). Trying to fix the problem by buying a more expensive ticket on the train has caused the penalty.

Others will be along to advise what to do next.

 

[Cantab26]

Does your daughter’s disability render her unable to use a ticket vending machine?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2026 ==

That means should get a ticket at next opportunity (in theory a vending machine at the station)

There is a ticket vending machine at Rugeley Trent Valley.

which may (or may not have been working)

There is nothing to indicate that the TVM was not in working order.

If it was working would it have sold the correct ticket.

Yes.

Luckily the last screen shot makes it clear the official instruction if can't buy is to buy using their free app.

That statement is conditional on there being both (a) no open ticket office and (b) no operative TVM.

But as above have demonstrated this wasn't possible

Clearly it was possible because the OP’s daughter purchased the ticket on her phone after boarding.

Trying to fix the problem by buying a more expensive ticket has caused the penalty.

No, boarding the train without having purchased a ticket beforehand is what has caused this situation.

 

[John R]

I’m a bit puzzled as the screen capture showing the ticket as unavailable to buy was taken at 1312, yet the train departed at 1232 according to RTT.

I’d also note that the advice shown on what to do if ticket facilities are unavailable (if that was indeed the case) is clear that an app purchase should be made before departure. And as an app purchase was made, albeit after departure, does that rule out the argument that the traveller’s disability prevented them from making a purchase?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi, seeking advice if I'm right to complain and appeal a rail fine for my daughter.
She was heading to Stafford from Rugeley Trent valley as she does every week. She always purchases a ticket and never fare dodges. Anyway she had to be in Stafford by 2 and she rang me asking at 12.20 if I could drop her down the station as the 12.21 train was delayed but the next one was cancelled so shs could make that one and still be in Stafford on time .I got her to the station at 12.25 and train was delayed until 12.29.. on the way she tried purchasing a ticket on her phone as she always does but if said unable to purchase fare becuase time had passed for first train and second train was cancelled..screenshots attached. She had a few mins to get from my car to the train and she has disabilities so I told her to purchase the ticket as soon as she got on board because the station is unmanned. She boarded the train and used her disabled rail card for purchase an off peak ticket for the next available train if was letting her which was the 2.21. Its the same train , same off peak time and on her ticket clearly says valid 7th Feb , doesn't state a time. Anyway as she approached Stafford a conductor fined her for purchasing her ticket after boarding! I don't see what else she could have done and clearly says on the website to purchase the ticket on board as soon as you can which she did. Is there something I'm missing here and is she right to be fined? Also to add she is autistic and has other disabilities so didn't explain the situation to the conductor properly at the time but I've appealed it and they have declined?

My instinct is not necessarily to see what WMR website says about buying on board (it’s worded in my view to make you think you should do something, not what the rules exactly require). So you need to look at the railway National Conditions of Travel to see the rules. So here for example WMR likes to imply you should buy a ticket on line where there is no obligation to actually do so. But there is an obligation to have a ticket before boarding apart from in certain circumstances and disability can be one of the reasons for an exemption.

Having said that if this is going to require a Penalty Fare appeal I would advise getting your appeal wording checked here by penalty fare experts before submitting your appeal.

My hunch is you should be saying that as a disabled railcard holder you are entitled to buy on the train.
But maybe don’t get into the nature of the disability- let the (less than brilliant) appeals service ask about that if they insist on knowing more about the disability.

There is nothing to loose by appealing but usually advice from here will allow you to assess the likelihood of success.

Do not miss the prompt payment discount deadline. An appeal pauses the clock on this.

 

[vikkitheviking]

The Good thing is you have evidence, sensibly have taken a screenshot of can't sell a ticket.

That means should get a ticket at next opportunity (in theory a vending machine at the station), which may (or may not have been working). If it was working would it have sold the correct ticket.

Luckily the last screen shot makes it clear the official instruction if can't buy is to buy using their free app. But as above have demonstrated this wasn't possible

I think an appeal is justified, as encountered a system that couldn't sell a ticket. (Displaying unable to find a valid fare)

Stupidly (rail process stupid, not Op) if hadn't then managed to buy a ticket on board, but just showed the unable to buy ticket evidence, then penalty wouldn't have been issued (would have been sold ticket instead on the train). Trying to fix the problem by buying a more expensive ticket on the train has caused the penalty.

Others will be along to advise what to do next.

Thankyou

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2026 ==

Does your daughter’s disability render her unable to use a ticket vending machine?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2026 ==


There is a ticket vending machine at Rugeley Trent Valley.

There is nothing to indicate that the TVM was not in working order.

Yes.

That statement is conditional on there being both (a) no open ticket office and (b) no operative TVM.

Clearly it was possible because the OP’s daughter purchased the ticket on her phone after boarding.

No, boarding the train without having purchased a ticket beforehand is what has caused this situation.

Hi my daughter has never used a ticket machine..doesn't know how ..with her autism I've taught her to buy one on her phone as she doesn't like communicating with people. She always purchase her ticket before the train on this occasion we had minutes from seeing that the train she was going to get was cancelled to her boarding the train . I do appreciate now she should have used the ticket machine but I don't even know where it is and she doesn't know how to use one so I just said as soon as u get on the train purchase a ticket from the conductor. She rang me minute later saying she has managed to be buy a ticket but it would only let her for the 2.21 so I assumed ok all done..she was fined at 12 43. Ten minutes after boarding and purchasing the ticket. I understand in hindsight she should have used ticket machine but as I say we had minutes from discovering her train was cancelled to getting her to this one and so I definitely wouldn't have time to find and teach her to use a ticket machine..

 

[Fawkes Cat]

It would be helpful if you could show us what your daughter was given, and the correspondence you have had so far with the railway - although make sure you hide your ( and your daughter's) personal details as you won't want the whole internet to see that.

On what you have already said, it seems that you are dealing with a penalty fare: if that's the case there are three rounds to the appeal process. But if it's something different that your daughter received then the procedure might be different.

As a last thought and just to clarify - you can evidence that your daughter holds a disabled Railcard? I expect that she does have one, but it's not unknown for people without a Railcard to falsely claim to have one, which means that the railway may insist on proof of ownership.

 

[vikkitheviking]

I’m a bit puzzled as the screen capture showing the ticket as unavailable to buy was taken at 1312, yet the train departed at 1232 according to RTT.

I’d also note that the advice shown on what to do if ticket facilities are unavailable (if that was indeed the case) is clear that an app purchase should be made before departure. And as an app purchase was made, albeit after departure, does that rule out the argument that the traveller’s disability prevented them from making a purchase?

She tried to buy the ticket on the way to the station. It didn't allow her to..her disability didn't prevent her from buying a ticket on her phone the app did bu saying it was unable to . Her disability meant she had limited time to get from my car to the train which was a rush due to the cancellation and then also as I said she has never ever used the ticket machine and doesn't even know they exist

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2026 ==

My instinct is not necessarily to see what WMR website says about buying on board (it’s worded in my view to make you think you should do something, not what the rules exactly require). So you need to look at the railway National Conditions of Travel to see the rules. So here for example WMR likes to imply you should buy a ticket on line where there is no obligation to actually do so. But there is an obligation to have a ticket before boarding apart from in certain circumstances and disability can be one of the reasons for an exemption.

Having said that if this is going to require a Penalty Fare appeal I would advise getting your appeal wording checked here by penalty fare experts before submitting your appeal.

My hunch is you should be saying that as a disabled railcard holder you are entitled to buy on the train.
But maybe don’t get into the nature of the disability- let the (less than brilliant) appeals service ask about that if they insist on knowing more about the disability.

There is nothing to loose by appealing but usually advice from here will allow you to assess the likelihood of success.

Do not miss the prompt payment discount deadline. An appeal pauses the clock on this.

Thankyou I will look into the terms and conditions

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2026 ==

It would be helpful if you could show us what your daughter was given, and the correspondence you have had so far with the railway - although make sure you hide your ( and your daughter's) personal details as you won't want the whole internet to see that.

On what you have already said, it seems that you are dealing with a penalty fare: if that's the case there are three rounds to the appeal process. But if it's something different that your daughter received then the procedure might be different.

As a last thought and just to clarify - you can evidence that your daughter holds a disabled Railcard? I expect that she does have one, but it's not unknown for people without a Railcard to falsely claim to have one, which means that the railway may insist on proof of ownership.

This is what she was given on the train..
I asked her what she said to the conductor when given it and she said nothing. She doesn't know how to react in these situations

 

[John R]

she has never ever used the ticket machine and doesn't even know they exist.

Unfortunately that, by itself, is unlikely to be regarded as an acceptable excuse for not purchasing a ticket.

 

[vikkitheviking]

It would be helpful if you could show us what your daughter was given, and the correspondence you have had so far with the railway - although make sure you hide your ( and your daughter's) personal details as you won't want the whole internet to see that.

On what you have already said, it seems that you are dealing with a penalty fare: if that's the case there are three rounds to the appeal process. But if it's something different that your daughter received then the procedure might be different.

As a last thought and just to clarify - you can evidence that your daughter holds a disabled Railcard? I expect that she does have one, but it's not unknown for people without a Railcard to falsely claim to have one, which means that the railway may insist on proof of ownership.

Sorry didn't attach the fine thing
And yes she has a valid disabled rail card that I got for her with all the correct evidence

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2026 ==

Unfortunately that is unlikely to be regarded as an acceptable excuse for not purchasing a ticket.

Hi yes I understand.. unfortunately with her autism she can only understand limited things and I have taught her to buy on her phone using her disabled rail card so never had to show her the ticket machines

 

[WesternLancer]

Unfortunately that, by itself, is unlikely to be regarded as an acceptable excuse for not purchasing a ticket.

I’m not sure I agree with this.
It could be argued that the nature of the disability means it’s relevant.

I can’t see the appeals body getting into a detailed debate about this. They will either accept it or they won’t. But will probably require being prepared to go through all three stages for which the only downside is the time involved in doing so.

I have a hunch we do see disabled railcard holders being treated with some discretion on things occasionally. I suspect that discretion is often actually used by staff on the train so things don’t get as far as needing help here on the forum.

Experts will check the penalty fare paperwork to see if any errors on that render it invalid anyway.

 

[John R]

I’m not sure I agree with this.
It could be argued that the nature of the disability means it’s relevant.

Hence why I specifically added “by itself”.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hence why I specifically added “by itself”.

Thanks. Yes and of course your record of offering very sound advice on this forum will be helpful to the OP on this one.

 

[vikkitheviking]

I’m not sure I agree with this.
It could be argued that the nature of the disability means it’s relevant.

I can’t see the appeals body getting into a detailed debate about this. They will either accept it or they won’t. But will probably require being prepared to go through all three stages for which the only downside is the time involved in doing so.

I have a hunch we do see disabled railcard holders being treated with some discretion on things occasionally. I suspect that discretion is often actually used by staff on the train so things don’t get as far as needing help here on the forum.

Experts will check the penalty fare paperwork to see if any errors on that render it invalid anyway.

Yes I understand in hindsight it's not an acceptable excuse .as I say she is autistic and so I have taught her to buy her ticket on her phone using her Railcard to which she has always done.. in this situation she tried to do that .it didn't work so in the limited time we had I said buy one as soon as you are on the train. She did but said it only lets her for 2.21 train but as I say it's still an off peak journey etc so I assumed this would be ok. The annoying thing is if the 1.21 hadn't been cancelled this never would have happened. It was only due to the rush that this incident occured. As her parent I accept I could of advised better but I obviously (now I understand)wrongly advised and assumed as long as you have a ticket you are ok and she bought the ticket a good ten minutes before she was fined. In my eyes this alone shows no attempt to fare dodge because she had no idea a conductor would check her ticket as they rarely do.

 

[Cantab26]

My hunch is you should be saying that as a disabled railcard holder you are entitled to buy on the train.

Holding a disabled person’s railcard does not in itself provide any such entitlement.

Hi my daughter has never used a ticket machine..doesn't know how ..with her autism I've taught her to buy one on her phone as she doesn't like communicating with people.

Does your daughter’s disability mean that she cannot use a railway station ticket vending machine?

She tried to buy the ticket on the way to the station. It didn't allow her to..her disability didn't prevent her from buying a ticket on her phone the app did bu saying it was unable to

With respect, the ticket your daughter actually purchased could have been purchased prior to boarding, in which case there wouldn’t have been a problem.

Her disability meant she had limited time to get from my car to the train

How did your daughter’s disability limit the time she had to get from the car to the train?

unfortunately with her autism she can only understand limited things

Could your daughter use a station ticket vending machine if shown how to do so? Or would her disability prevent this?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

My feeling is that on this one the way to win will be to emphasise how disabled your daughter is, including the practical limits on her being able to only buy tickets in one way i.e. via the app, and her limited communication skills when interacting with the inspector.

It's unlikely that doing this will resolve matters at the second appeal, but I would have more hope at the third appeal, which is dealt with by a more independent panel. But to maximise the chances, we often suggest that you draft up what you plan to send to the second appeal, and we will try to help you tune it to be as effective as possible. And I think that would be a good idea for this one.

 

[z444z]

The penalty fare appears correctly issued in terms of fare charged, stations, reason for penalty fare. It sounds like an appeal under “compelling reasons” would be worth a shot though.

 

[vikkitheviking]

My feeling is that on this one the way to win will be to emphasise how disabled your daughter is, including the practical limits on her being able to only buy tickets in one way i.e. via the app, and her limited communication skills when interacting with the inspector.

It's unlikely that doing this will resolve matters at the second appeal, but I would have more hope at the third appeal, which is dealt with by a more independent panel. But to maximise the chances, we often suggest that you draft up what you plan to send to the second appeal, and we will try to help you tune it to be as effective as possible. And I think that would be a good idea for this one.

Great thankyou. I will do this. I'm out all day today . But will do this and I would appreciate any help. If we have to pay it we will of course..just wanted to know my rights as this was a one off set of circumstances in which we had minutes to make decisions..I have never had to show her how to use a ticket machine as she always buys her ticket prior to boarding. She attempted to do exactly that but couldn't due to the unable to purchase fare errors. I didn't even think about a ticket machine as it was a rush and I was just trying to get her to the train on time and told her to purchase a ticket as soon as she was on board with the conductor..she rang me a minute later saying. She got one on the app but had to put in for the 2.21 train.
Obviously with more time she would have done this before boarding but we simply didn't have that time .I had minutes to get her from the house to the train and she tried buying a ticket the whole way.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2026 ==

The penalty fare appears correctly issued in terms of fare charged, stations, reason for penalty fare. It sounds like an appeal under “compelling reasons” would be worth a shot though.

Thankyou

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2026 ==

Holding a disabled person’s railcard does not in itself provide any such entitlement.

Does your daughter’s disability mean that she cannot use a railway station ticket vending machine?

With respect, the ticket your daughter actually purchased could have been purchased prior to boarding, in which case there wouldn’t have been a problem.

How did your daughter’s disability limit the time she had to get from the car to the train?

Could your daughter use a station ticket vending machine if shown how to do so? Or would her disability prevent this?

Yes the ticket purchase in the end could have been purchased before boarding but she spent the time in the car trying different websites trying to buy one for the train she was actually boarding..
It was only once she sat down in the rush of all this she then put in for the 2.21 train instead and this worked. This was ourhased a good ten minutes before she was fined , in my opinion showing no attempt to dodge fare.
My daughter's disability limits her time wise waking to the train because she had 4 minutes .she walks very slowly due to hyper mobility in her joints , and is very clumsy meaning she couldn't of used her phone while walking..she literally just made the train. The Trent valley station has alot of steps and a large bridge .
As for her being able to use a machine , if u taught her to and showed her with time and repeated training she would be able to. But this has never been an issue prior to this day as she always bought on her phone no issue so I have never had to show her to use a ticket machine , she doesn't even know where they are or that they exist. .I know that sounds silly but she literally gets lost in a car park when coming out of a shop and forgets where I've parked so this is something she struggles with. So I just taught her to use her phone and disabled rail card and that's the only method she knows. She even avoids ticket stations due to communication with people she doesn't know she gets very overwhelmed.

 

[John R]

My feeling is that on this one the way to win will be to emphasise how disabled your daughter is, including the practical limits on her being able to only buy tickets in one way i.e. via the app, and her limited communication skills when interacting with the inspector.

It's unlikely that doing this will resolve matters at the second appeal, but I would have more hope at the third appeal, which is dealt with by a more independent panel. But to maximise the chances, we often suggest that you draft up what you plan to send to the second appeal, and we will try to help you tune it to be as effective as possible. And I think that would be a good idea for this one.

I would agree with this. Given the information we have, I think an appeal that doesn’t explain clearly how the disability limits ticket purchasing options (and in particular made purchase difficult after the departure time due to the way the app stupidly doesn’t allow purchase after the scheduled departure time even when running late), would have very little chance of success.

I also agree that this is likely to need to go to a third appeal.

 

[vikkitheviking]

I would agree with this. Given the information we have, I think an appeal that doesn’t explain clearly how the disability limits ticket purchasing options (and in particular made purchase difficult after the departure time due to the way the app stupidly doesn’t allow purchase after the scheduled departure time even when running late), would have very little chance of success.

I also agree that this is likely to need to go to a third appeal.

Great thanks so shall I just appeal with simple things for now then wait to the third appeal to write down all the evidence about her disability etc? Or should I write the same thing in all three appeals?

 

[185]

From what I can see the train was....
1U31 the 1046 London Euston - Crewe
Rugeley TV dep 1232
Stafford arrived 1241.
The Penalty Fare was issued at 1243, after the train had left Stafford.
Be interesting to see the time of purchase.
- Was it immediately after boarding?
- Was it on the train as staff approached?
- Was it at the station exit as she approached staff?

That said, on appeal, holding a disabled railcard & sending evidence of it might be enough to have this squished, but there's a lot who think it acceptable not to pay, noticed the inspectors had loads of college students queued up at Stafford recently. Hope it's overturned, but either way, this £54 ticket she received should be a good reminder to pay first, not after boarding or, like many not when she sees staff. Pick the next train or the one after if need be - after 9.30 they're all the same fare, no restrictive advance tickets. Perhaps buy the ticket early before leaving the house.

I'm puzzled about the clunky, useless NRE app refusing to sell a ticket for a train that is ten minutes away.

 

[AlterEgo]

So, in terms of whether the ticket machine is *inaccessible* to the OP's daughter, it appears the answer is no.

She didn't use the machine because she didn't think to and has not used one before - these do not make the ticket facilities *inaccessible*.

Great thanks so shall I just appeal with simple things for now then wait to the third appeal to write down all the evidence about her disability etc? Or should I write the same thing in all three appeals?

Best to write the same thing in all three appeals. Enclose a copy of her disabled railcard and any relevant medical evidence.

 

[vikkitheviking]

From what I can see the train was....
1U31 the 1046 London Euston - Crewe
Rugeley TV dep 1232
Stafford arrived 1241.
The Penalty Fare was issued at 1243, after the train had left Stafford.
Be interesting to see the time of purchase.
- Was it immediately after boarding?
- Was it on the train as staff approached?
- Was it at the station exit as she approached staff?

That said, on appeal, holding a disabled railcard & sending evidence of it might be enough to have this squished, but there's a lot who think it acceptable not to pay, noticed the inspectors had loads of college students queued up at Stafford recently. Hope it's overturned, but either way, this £54 ticket she received should be a good reminder to pay first, not after boarding or, like many not when she sees staff. Pick the next train or the one after if need be - after 9.30 they're all the same fare, no restrictive advance tickets. Buy the ticket early before leaving the house.

Yes we would do in future but at the time I wasn't aware she could buy one for a later train and it would be ok so with the limited time we had I obviously was telling her to try purchase for the correct train. Which was the 12.21
She purchased the ticket as soon as she sat down. So 12.28/29. I have asked her to look if she can find anything to show what time she purchased if but yet to see but it was definitely before she got to Stafford. She said it was on the train as she got to Stafford.
But I'll ask her again to make sure.

 

[vikkitheviking]

So, in terms of whether the ticket machine is *inaccessible* to the OP's daughter, it appears the answer is no.

She didn't use the machine because she didn't think to and has not used one before - these do not make the ticket facilities *inaccessible*.


Best to write the same thing in all three appeals. Enclose a copy of her disabled railcard and any relevant medical evidence.

Sorry to be clear I have already done the first appeal.. and they didn't explain why just said it was denied. but I will on the second and third. Thankyou..
As for whether it's inaccessible qs I say at the time it was because she doesn't even know they exist..in hindsight for all I know might not have been working
Didn't even think about it as assumed as long she purchased one on phone wouldn't be an issue..
.I couldn't even get out the car as there was no free spaces including the disabled one( she has a blue badge)

 

[Fawkes Cat]

So, in terms of whether the ticket machine is *inaccessible* to the OP's daughter, it appears the answer is no.

She didn't use the machine because she didn't think to and has not used one before - these do not make the ticket facilities *inaccessible*.

I'd disagree, as OP has told us

..I have never had to show her how to use a ticket machine as she always buys her ticket prior to boarding.

 

[AlterEgo]

( she has a blue badge)

Apologies for the personal question - but does your daughter have quite severe autism, or other disabilities? If so, it may be helpful to get some evidence from her GP or consultant, and evidence her blue badge too. What you're trying to do here is make the grounds for appeal compelling, so the more you can provide, the better.

 

[WesternLancer]

My feeling is that on this one the way to win will be to emphasise how disabled your daughter is, including the practical limits on her being able to only buy tickets in one way i.e. via the app, and her limited communication skills when interacting with the inspector.

It's unlikely that doing this will resolve matters at the second appeal, but I would have more hope at the third appeal, which is dealt with by a more independent panel. But to maximise the chances, we often suggest that you draft up what you plan to send to the second appeal, and we will try to help you tune it to be as effective as possible. And I think that would be a good idea for this one.

I agree with this approach

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2026 ==

Yes I understand in hindsight it's not an acceptable excuse .as I say she is autistic and so I have taught her to buy her ticket on her phone using her Railcard to which she has always done.. in this situation she tried to do that .it didn't work so in the limited time we had I said buy one as soon as you are on the train. She did but said it only lets her for 2.21 train but as I say it's still an off peak journey etc so I assumed this would be ok. The annoying thing is if the 1.21 hadn't been cancelled this never would have happened. It was only due to the rush that this incident occured. As her parent I accept I could of advised better but I obviously (now I understand)wrongly advised and assumed as long as you have a ticket you are ok and she bought the ticket a good ten minutes before she was fined. In my eyes this alone shows no attempt to fare dodge because she had no idea a conductor would check her ticket as they rarely do.

In general I’d like to say don’t be hard on yourself.
The railway doesn’t always make life easy for people who have challenges to overcome and your daughter has my sympathy over what has happened.

At least this forum is the place where you can get the very best advice possible on this, in my view.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2026 ==

Great thankyou. I will do this. I'm out all day today . But will do this and I would appreciate any help. If we have to pay it we will of course..just wanted to know my rights as this was a one off set of circumstances in which we had minutes to make decisions..I have never had to show her how to use a ticket machine as she always buys her ticket prior to boarding. She attempted to do exactly that but couldn't due to the unable to purchase fare errors. I didn't even think about a ticket machine as it was a rush and I was just trying to get her to the train on time and told her to purchase a ticket as soon as she was on board with the conductor..she rang me a minute later saying. She got one on the app but had to put in for the 2.21 train.
Obviously with more time she would have done this before boarding but we simply didn't have that time .I had minutes to get her from the house to the train and she tried buying a ticket the whole way.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2026 ==


Thankyou

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2026 ==


Yes the ticket purchase in the end could have been purchased before boarding but she spent the time in the car trying different websites trying to buy one for the train she was actually boarding..
It was only once she sat down in the rush of all this she then put in for the 2.21 train instead and this worked. This was ourhased a good ten minutes before she was fined , in my opinion showing no attempt to dodge fare.
My daughter's disability limits her time wise waking to the train because she had 4 minutes .she walks very slowly due to hyper mobility in her joints , and is very clumsy meaning she couldn't of used her phone while walking..she literally just made the train. The Trent valley station has alot of steps and a large bridge .
As for her being able to use a machine , if u taught her to and showed her with time and repeated training she would be able to. But this has never been an issue prior to this day as she always bought on her phone no issue so I have never had to show her to use a ticket machine , she doesn't even know where they are or that they exist. .I know that sounds silly but she literally gets lost in a car park when coming out of a shop and forgets where I've parked so this is something she struggles with. So I just taught her to use her phone and disabled rail card and that's the only method she knows. She even avoids ticket stations due to communication with people she doesn't know she gets very overwhelmed.

Seperatly I wonder if we could recommend a ticket buying website that doesn’t default to tickets for specific trains when that’s not usually necessary for relatively short local travel.
I’m not sure of one simply because I don’t buy on line for last minute travel for various reasons.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2026 ==

I would agree with this. Given the information we have, I think an appeal that doesn’t explain clearly how the disability limits ticket purchasing options (and in particular made purchase difficult after the departure time due to the way the app stupidly doesn’t allow purchase after the scheduled departure time even when running late), would have very little chance of success.

I also agree that this is likely to need to go to a third appeal.

Sound advice here I’m sure.

 

[vikkitheviking]

Apologies for the personal question - but does your daughter have quite severe autism, or other disabilities? If so, it may be helpful to get some evidence from her GP or consultant, and evidence her blue badge too. What you're trying to do here is make the grounds for appeal compelling, so the more you can provide, the better.

Yes she does when it comes to common sense things, travel etc she really struggles without guidance..so I'm hindsight I blame myself for not thinking of the ticket machine etc but as I say it was all done in a matter of minutes..she likes routine and things like this throw her off very easily. We have never encountered this issue before so I know that doesn't make it ok but in the limited time we have I did the best with what I could and just assumed that buying one as soon as possible would be ok.
Obviously not .
She has diagnosed OCD , hypermobility and Autism. Has panic attacks a blade badge etc .. the blue badge was given on the grounds of her pip stating that she scored maximum points because of difficulties around travel , not jist physical but mental aswell so in my opinion , it's not an excuse but surely they should take these things into account?
Thanks so much for everyone's advice so far..I'll write my next appeal trying to talk more about her disability and why that affected her usage of ticket machine etc. and send on herr to see if anyone has any guidance. As I say if .I have to pay I will
.we are an honest family so I guess that's why this hurts and is bothering me so much..I'm the type to tell a checkout worker they haven't scanned my item. My daughter's autism means she plays by the rules and would never deliberately fare dodge. She would be terrified of being in trouble.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2026 ==

I agree with this approach

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2026 ==


In general I’d like to say don’t be hard on yourself.
The railway doesn’t always make life easy for people who have challenges to overcome and your daughter has my sympathy over what has happened.

At least this forum is the place where you can get the very best advice possible on this, in my view.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2026 ==


Seperatly I wonder if we could recommend a ticket buying website that doesn’t default to tickets for specific trains when that’s not usually necessary for relatively short local travel.
I’m not sure of one simply because I don’t buy on line for last minute travel for various reasons.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Feb 2026 ==


Sound advice here I’m sure.

Thankyou

 

[WesternLancer]

Sorry to be clear I have already done the first appeal.. and they didn't explain why just said it was denied. but I will on the second and third. Thankyou..
As for whether it's inaccessible qs I say at the time it was because she doesn't even know they exist..in hindsight for all I know might not have been working
Didn't even think about it as assumed as long she purchased one on phone wouldn't be an issue..
.I couldn't even get out the car as there was no free spaces including the disabled one( she has a blue badge)

Share your draft for the next appeal here before submitting it. People will help finesse it with appropriate’railway language’ designed to press the right buttons

 

[AlterEgo]

She has diagnosed OCD , hypermobility and Autism. Has panic attacks a blade badge etc .. the blue badge was given on the grounds of her pip stating that she scored maximum points because of difficulties around travel , not jist physical but mental aswell so in my opinion , it's not an excuse but surely they should take these things into account?

They should, if you tell them about them. But I'd gather evidence of all of it first before submitting the next appeals.

The bit I have bolded should carry some weight with them.