More tube advertising?

[Lockwood]

I saw a picture on Reddit of a Northern Line Guinness advert.

It is effectively a Dark Mode line map, with a white top in the style of a Guinness glass.


I have unsuccessfully searched for another source for this - it might be that this is an early image of it, or it may be some form of chicanery. The comments are not full of "this is fake!" but also not full of "yeah, I have seen that." There was a comment about the roundel, which might give credence to it being true, but I am also unable to verify.


So I guess this is a question for here - is this true?

 

[Benjwri]

It is definitely real, there are other images circulating of the northern line diagrams being taken over in a similar way across Tottenham Court Road, which seems to be the only station taken over. I have also seen mentions of roundels but yea to see a photo of that.

 

[Harpo]

A harp would be more appropriate for Highgate.

 

[Lockwood]

In which case, with it being real...

TfL don't like HFSS advertising - there was a report a few years back now of a comedian with a cake advertising the comedy show but it wasn't able to be shown because it had cake on it, if I remember correctly?

You can't have alcohol on TfL services. There is a minefield around alcohol advertising.

Yes, these are advertising the 0% drinks, but this is a blatant word association thing - you see Heineken/Guinness/etc, the first thought will usually be the "full fat" variant.



Where am I going with this? I don't know. TfL need money, people want to avoid fare rises, so advertising happens. Fine. Good.

But these campaigns don't feel like they are treading the line between what can and can't be advertised - it feels like someone is dancing quite defiantly along that line.


I suppose a poor analogy would be whether TfL would allow McDonalds to put up huge adverts showing that you can buy bottled water at McDonalds. You know, us with the giant golden arches! McDonald's! That has the clown mascot? Yeah? McDonald's? Where you can buy bottled water? At McDonalds?

That advert there isn't advertising any kind of HFSS food or drink, so should be fine to do? Let's have the McCircle Line - with Mansion House and Monument having the golden arches instead of a Johnston M.

I'm sure nobody would object to that one? Right?

 

[bcarmicle]

Do TfL actually object to advertising alcohol? I've definitely seen ads for Jack Daniel's recently, and wouldn't be surprised if there were others.

 

[Lockwood]

Hmm, that's got me thinking...

Which makes the other advertising rules even dafter - you can't advertise a Mars bar, but you can advertise White Lightning?


(I thought part of why the advertising was done for the Bakerl0.0 was to be able to say "we aren't advertising alcohol!")

 

[Thirteen]

People on here seem to think TfL should not be able to generate revenue from anything other than fares. They'll be shocked to learn that advertising on transits is commonplace

 

[Lockwood]

I'm not saying that - I fully understand the need for extra revenue streams.

And the dark mode northern line map looks really neat - makes an interesting proof of concept.

My question was around the alcohol advertising side, rather than the general advertising.

 

[Transilien]

People on here seem to think TfL should not be able to generate revenue from anything other than fares. They'll be shocked to learn that advertising on transits is commonplace

In my opinion, TFL need more government funding, rather than just relying on fares. But that’s another topic.

 

[Trainlog]

People on here seem to think TfL should not be able to generate revenue from anything other than fares. They'll be shocked to learn that advertising on transits is commonplace

To be honest, the last time I used the Underground before Xmas, there were a lot more blank spaces on deep-level tube stock, as there used to be plenty of advertisements in recent years, especially on the Bakerloo line.

In the Southeast, I have noticed that advertisements are a bit less common on transit, such as buses, with poster frames on the ceilings that were clearly meant for ads, looking rather bare, and sometimes it's only just a single large advertisement on the side of the bus. Some bus stops have ads, but many don't these days.

Whilst many would rejoice at this fact, the reality is that, as you say, they are more reliant on passenger revenue and council subsidy, which has led to many bus services being cut back and are very unlikely to be reversed (see the Kent online article from 2023 when the large-scale cuts happened in Kent below).

As for National Rail fares, it is annoying that when fare rises are announced, it feels like little is being done to create more advertising spaces across the network. I know they aren't a silver bullet in completely helping reduce rail fare prices, but there are plenty of boarded-up windows on some suburban stations' former waiting rooms, which could accommodate ads, and I am sure that more larger advertising boards could be put up at some stations.

Personally, as long as they meet UK advertising rules and criteria, I am for more adverts on buses and trains at stations, as it would allow bus routes to run longer during the day and help bring down rail fares.

The bus services being axed in Kent from today

Council cuts to bus services will see £2.2 million funding pulled from 38 routes across the county, despite huge protests.

www.kentonline.co.uk

 

[Mojo]

I suppose a poor analogy would be whether TfL would allow McDonalds to put up huge adverts showing that you can buy bottled water at McDonalds. You know, us with the giant golden arches! McDonald's! That has the clown mascot? Yeah? McDonald's? Where you can buy bottled water? At McDonalds?

There are loads of adverts for McDonalds and other fast food chains on the TfL estate, not for boring things like bottles of water, but for wraps, burgers and things like chicken nuggets, that are compliant with the TfL policy.

 

[Lockwood]

Cool, shows how much attention I pay then!

 

[edwin_m]

In recent decades online will have taken a bit slice of advertisers' budgets, possibly at the expense of more traditional formats.

 

[NSE]

I think the bit that gets me is that it’s on way finder things such as maps and roundels. They’ve advertised on the station walls and escalators for years, no issue with that. But changing Bond Street’s roundels and playing about with maps is just not helpful.

I don’t even mind Google pay being on the tap in/tap out readers at barriers.

The worst one I’ve see (and it’s not strictly revenue based advertising I accept) is that ‘This is Croydon’ replacing the Norwood Junction signs.

 

[Russel]

People on here seem to think TfL should not be able to generate revenue from anything other than fares. They'll be shocked to learn that advertising on transits is commonplace

Indeed, advertisements have been plastered all over tube platforms from day 1!

On the subject of this advertising venture though, one of the corridors at TCR station has been fully wrapped in black Guinness branded vinyl, it actually looks pretty cool.

 

[Dstock7080]

I don’t even mind Google pay being on the tap in/tap out readers at barriers.

Now Chase bank:

 

[londontransit]

I'm not saying that - I fully understand the need for extra revenue streams.

And the dark mode northern line map looks really neat - makes an interesting proof of concept.

My question was around the alcohol advertising side, rather than the general advertising.

Although it looks like it, TfL are not advertising alcohol in this latest collab. Rather its about a new Guinness venue. Expect its up to people to see the connotations (if any) with booze.

Report and pics at: https://londonrail.uk/its-a-bold-life-for-londons-tube-tfl-guinness-collab/

 

[Chiltern006]

Is it just me who thinks this one has been extremely well executed - no name changing gimmicks and just fits in without compromising the names and ease of travel for passengers (also the map is a simple yet genius idea)

 

[jon81uk]

Do TfL actually object to advertising alcohol? I've definitely seen ads for Jack Daniel's recently, and wouldn't be surprised if there were others.

Yep Jack Daniels have advertised on the large platform-facing spots for a long time. There is nothing in the guidance about alcohol https://content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-advertising-policy-250219.pdf
I think the switch to promoting 0% brands is from the brand themselves trying to keep pace with the changing market.

TfL don't like HFSS advertising - there was a report a few years back now of a comedian with a cake advertising the comedy show but it wasn't able to be shown because it had cake on it, if I remember correctly?

It was Ed Gamble with a hot dog for his live show "Hot Diggety Dog" that wasn't allowed under the HFSS rules and was replaced with one showing ketchup/mustard on his face without the actual hot dog.

 

[RUK]

I saw someone else point out on that reddit post that they haven’t used the new Overground line names on this new map, but just “Overground”.

There is also an image on there of the “roundel”, which is a black (instead of blue) bar with white text on it, on top of the Guinness harp logo, rather than on top of a red ring: https://www.reddit.com/r/LondonUnderground/s/aUfhBj4bRz

 

[Benjwri]

I saw someone else point out on that reddit post that they haven’t used the new Overground line names on this new map, but just “Overground”.

This is intentional, as shown by TfL in the below video at 0:41 (Shows tube line diagram with text 'On Tube Lines that interchange with the Overground, the interchange boxes on the line diagrams will remain orange'), the interchange boxes are planned to remain orange on Tube line diagrams.

 

[bluegoblin7]

This is intentional, as shown by TfL in the below video at 0:41 (Shows tube line diagram with text 'On Tube Lines that interchange with the Overground, the interchange boxes on the line diagrams will remain orange'), the interchange boxes are planned to remain orange on Tube line diagrams.

That guidance has now changed as seen with the new in car diagrams (ICDs) that have been appearing with the Overground names, and they should start appearing more widely too as signage is replaced/renewed. Arguably the TCR diagram probably should have the new line names, but personally I think it's acceptable to just list 'Overground' for consistency with what was there before and the rest of the station.

 

[Benjwri]

That guidance has now changed as seen with the new in car diagrams (ICDs) that have been appearing with the Overground names, and they should start appearing more widely too as signage is replaced/renewed. Arguably the TCR diagram probably should have the new line names, but personally I think it's acceptable to just list 'Overground' for consistency with what was there before and the rest of the station.

Oh interesting, I did check the public versions of the design guides, but it seems they’ve released the new one for in car line diagrams, but not the interchange one!

 

[Jim the Jim]

People on here seem to think TfL should not be able to generate revenue from anything other than fares. They'll be shocked to learn that advertising on transits is commonplace

Obviously everyone will be aware that there are adverts on the Underground, and be fine with that. The risk with these sorts of adverts is that they interfere with passengers' abilities to find their way around. (Though as @Chiltern006 points out this particular set seem to have avoided many of the problems of previous campaigns.)

 

[Blaine]

You realise you're getting old when you see posters on the tube and are offended by the phrasing...

 

[jon81uk]

You realise you're getting old when you see posters on the tube and are offended by the phrasing...

What is offensive about that?

The product is a scented water bottle so its fairly accurately describing the product!

 

[Mojo]

What is offensive about that?

The product is a scented water bottle so it’s fairly accurately describing the product!

I wouldn’t describe it as offensive but it is pretty vulgar.

 

[sad1e]

Baker Street has been rebranded into Bakers Street by Warburtons , on the Jubilee line platforms at least.

 

[Thirteen]

I know it would cause a hoo ha on here but they missed the opportunity to call it Bakers Treat. (as in Baker Street but said really fast!)

 

[pdeaves]

I popped in there today. I noted that announcements in the escalator area (welcome, safety, etc.) referred to Warburton. Even with my poor hearing, I found them relatively clear. I have no idea if the voice was a computer one or real human, and if the latter whether pre-recorded or live. It was an American accent.

I also noted that, like the Bakerl0.0 campaign a few weeks ago, as far as I can tell all the proper roundels are still in place and unobstructed. The novelty name signs are in poster spaces so technically are 'just adverts' (albeit I think line diagrams and that kind of thing rather than another insurance or makeup company).