EMR Class 222’s - declining reliability

[Railperf]

The incident at Sharnbrook wasn't to do with isolated/faulty engines

I believe every unit will leave the depot on at least 4 engines

The performance level of some units suggest that they either start the day on just three engines or that the four in operation are not producing full power. Poor acceleration is usually a result of that.
I think it was mentioned above somewhere that units have been sent out on three engines to avoid a service cancellation..but that comes with a performance penalty and a risk of losing an engine later in the day which comes with added risk of early termination.

EDIT: Analysis of southbound performance on Monday 9 February: Units 6, 12, 15, 18 and 19 all good performers (most likely 5 engines) units 8,9,10,11, 14, 21 23 102, 103 and 104 - average performers (most likely 4 engines but if on 5 some are delivering low output). Units 13, 20 and 101 - the slowest units (either four engines but some offering low power or could be as low as three engines)

Units 8 and 9 - average performers seemed to worsen during the day as did 104 which seemed strong at the very start but dropped to average for the rest of the day indicating engines derating or cutting out. Units 007 and 022 were not in service. So only five out of 20 sets with a full set of engines (only 25% of the fleet, so 75% of the fleet appearing to have engines either offering low power, or not running for one reason or another!

 

[ThatBloke]

What is a typical overhaul interval for Cummins QSK19 engines on UK rail vehicles?

Upto 30000 hours between full ovehauls is not unusual. Assuming 18hrs/day equates to approx 4.5years.

 

[Railperf]

Upto 30000 hours between full ovehauls is not unusual. Assuming 18hrs/day equates to approx 4.5years.

What about service intervals? I guess there are varying levels of servicing required?

 

[FrontSideBus]

How easy is it to swap out an engine on these? Are they self contained packs that contain everything like generators and cooler group which can be dropped out and changed quite quickly?

 

[ThatBloke]

How easy is it to swap out an engine on these? Are they self contained packs that contain everything like generators and cooler group which can be dropped out and changed quite quickly?

On a 22x, the power pack, consisting of engine coolergroup, hydeostatics and alternator, is one assembly.
This assembly is bolted into the underside of the train, services and other connections made.
It takes approximately one shift to drop and refit a new power pack. Depending on the number of fitters involved and arising issues that need to be resolved along the way. For example: ad hoc exhaust repairs

 

[ThatBloke]

What about service intervals? I guess there are varying levels of servicing required?

There is a schedule of 'service' maintenance for items on/in the powerpack, such as filter renewals or lubricant change and leak checks.
These repeating checks are what support the quite lengthy periods between overhaul.

 

[londonmidland]

222010 has just left Leicester on three working engines, working 1C26 to London.

 

[Railperf]

222010 has just left Leicester on three working engines, working 1C26 to London.

If I recall correctly, unit 022 was caped yesterday at Leicester after its performance deteriorated. It was probably also on three engines and may have even gone down to two.
Performance deficit can be up to half a minute for every acceleration to high speed on an average unit versus a good one and over a minute for a unit that is on three engines compared to a good one.
If a poorly performing unit has to be pressed into service, it seems to be best utilised on the faster nottinghams which don't have too many stops.
But looking at the diagrams that seems to be easier said than done.

 

[Amos390]

If I recall correctly, unit 022 was caped yesterday at Leicester after its performance deteriorated. It was probably also on three engines and may have even gone down to two.
Performance deficit can be up to half a minute for every acceleration to high speed on an average unit versus a good one and over a minute for a unit that is on three engines compared to a good one.
If a poorly performing unit has to be pressed into service, it seems to be best utilised on the faster nottinghams which don't have too many stops.
But looking at the diagrams that seems to be easier said than done.

022 appears to have been cleared for service today though, it is back out (at least, was last time I checked, never know with the chaos going on at the base of the MML at the moment with the OLE going down causing 60+ minuets of delay on some services leading to units being brought back to Etches)

 

[Railperf]

So it seems a number of units come back to the depot with engine faults that seem to be remedies overnight , but then some of those units very quicky deteriorated even after a very short time.
I wonder what makes up the majority of those smaller but regular faults? Do EMR employ travelling fitters that reset some of these faults during the day
I've seen a couple of units that appeared to be sluggish in the morning pick up during the day as If the fault had been reset - probably during the layover at St Pancras, Nottingham or Sheffield. Would that be drivers or travelling fitters?

 

[The Chimaera]

So it seems a number of units come back to the depot with engine faults that seem to be remedies overnight , but then some of those units very quicky deteriorated even after a very short time.
I wonder what makes up the majority of those smaller but regular faults? Do EMR employ travelling fitters that reset some of these faults during the day
I've seen a couple of units that appeared to be sluggish in the morning pick up during the day as If the fault had been reset - probably during the layover at St Pancras, Nottingham or Sheffield. Would that be drivers or travelling fitters?

221’s have a traction cut out switch which allows for the engine to run and supply the auxiliaries, heat / light / compressor etc but without producing traction power. This is sometimes used if the power packs a bit ropey, just to keep the engine running and avoid putting extra strain on the other engines due to the load shedding of the required auxiliaries.
IF the 222’s are the same it could be that even having 4 engines running for example is no guarantee that all 4 are actually producing traction power and this could explain some unexpectedly poor performance of some sets.

 

[Railperf]

An analysis of Mondays data suggests Class 222 units 10, 20, 21 and 22 were the worst performers with 103 joining them by the end of the day. 013 started the day as an average performer but dropped into the poor performing list.
Best units were 6, 8 15, 17, 18, 19, 102 and 104. Unit 10 started the day as an average performer but finished the day stonger as did 23.

 

[apinnard]

I’m on 1F52 into Sheffield. It’s 222020, and is losing time all over the place. Feels sluggish pulling away from stops at Leicester onwards. Really seems to be struggling to get up to speed.

 

[dk1]

I’m on 1F52 into Sheffield. It’s 222020, and is losing time all over the place. Feels sluggish pulling away from stops at Leicester onwards. Really seems to be struggling to get up to speed.

It didn’t seem to do too bad on its inbound working 1C50.

 

[apinnard]

It didn’t seem to do too bad on its inbound working 1C50.

Drive is taking it easy then. Although the carriage I am in doesn’t have the usual engine noises. I can hear the faint rumble of the engine in the next carriage though. It’s quite surreal.

 

[dk1]

Drive is taking it easy then. Although the carriage I am in doesn’t have the usual engine noises. I can hear the faint rumble of the engine in the next carriage though. It’s quite surreal.

I’ve been on several Voyager carriages where the engine is isolated and strangely, I didn’t really like it.

 

[Railperf]

I’m on 1F52 into Sheffield. It’s 222020, and is losing time all over the place. Feels sluggish pulling away from stops at Leicester onwards. Really seems to be struggling to get up to speed.

Unit 20 has been struggling all this week - one of the worst performers in the fleet at the moment. All the signs it is on four engines with some struggling to provide traction power or even three. But I suppose the fact it only lost 10 or 11 minutes to Sheffield will satisfy the powers that be that it can continue in service rather than cancel the service altogether!
EMR just don't have any spare units to swap it with, and they have enough trouble trying to get 5 810's onto 3 diagrams! And the diagram allocation for 810's is linked to staff training as much as anything.

If it was being used on the ECML or WCML or XC doing 400 miles - then it would likely lose more like 30 - 40 mins and that would be unacceptable and cause massive service disruption. of course delay repay would start to kick in too.
Are the spare ex-Avanti 221's so different that they cannot be drafted in to help? But then again where would they store them?

EDIT: Berth timings for 222 020 on 1F52

Loughboro LR512 to NE4481 - good 222 = 2:44, 1F52 today 3:25

Long Eaton NE4429 to DY5033 - good 222 = 3:40 , 1F52 today 4:38

Chesterfield TN4889 to Y$ 0043 - good 222 = 4:01 - 1F52 today 5:01

A 222 on 4 engines and an 810 normally around 15 to 20 secs slower than a good 222 on these sections.

On Monday 222 020 started the day on 1D08 northbound out of Kettering with a 5:10 timing on a section where 3:58 is the norm.

 

[liamf656]

Are the spare ex-Avanti 221's so different that they cannot be drafted in to help? But then again where would they store them?

The DfT hold the purse strings. I reckon we'd still have the 180s if EMR had a choice

 

[Railperf]

The DfT hold the purse strings. I reckon we'd still have the 180s if EMR had a choice

The 180's were a disaster. A lottery as to whether you had an engine or transmission fault starting from each station. I remember a unit stuggling up Sharnbrook with probably only three engines or four but the transmission under my coach had not engaged so the engine was just idling!

 

[Killingworth]

Unit 20 has been struggling all this week - one of the worst performers in the fleet at the moment. All the signs it is on four engines with some struggling to provide traction power or even three. But I suppose the fact it only lost 10 or 11 minutes to Sheffield will satisfy the powers that be that it can continue in service rather than cancel the service altogether!
EMR just don't have any spare units to swap it with, and they have enough trouble trying to get 5 810's onto 3 diagrams! And the diagram allocation for 810's is linked to staff training as much as anything.

If it was being used on the ECML or WCML or XC doing 400 miles - then it would likely lose more like 30 - 40 mins and that would be unacceptable and cause massive service disruption. of course delay repay would start to kick in too.
Are the spare ex-Avanti 221's so different that they cannot be drafted in to help? But then again where would they store them?

Doesn't bode well for operating on single line services in Scotland but maybe three engines will be better than one on an HST.

 

[43096]

Doesn't bode well for operating on single line services in Scotland but maybe three engines will be better than one on an HST.

Not much in it! Three 222 engines = 2,250hp. One HST engine = 2,250hp.

 

[222001]

Doesn't bode well for operating on single line services in Scotland but maybe three engines will be better than one on an HST.

As long as they're maintained to a standard they'll be great. It's all down to recent shoddy maintenance.

 

[Amos390]

As long as they're maintained to a standard they'll be great. It's all down to recent shoddy maintenance.

Yeah, I suppose at Scotrail they'll be exited about 'new trains' and do what EMR are currently doing with the 810s - discarding the old stock in the back and focusing most the attention on the new ones whilst the old ones slowly fall apart in the background

 

[apinnard]

Unit 20 has been struggling all this week - one of the worst performers in the fleet at the moment. All the signs it is on four engines with some struggling to provide traction power or even three. But I suppose the fact it only lost 10 or 11 minutes to Sheffield will satisfy the powers that be that it can continue in service rather than cancel the service altogether!
EMR just don't have any spare units to swap it with, and they have enough trouble trying to get 5 810's onto 3 diagrams! And the diagram allocation for 810's is linked to staff training as much as anything.

If it was being used on the ECML or WCML or XC doing 400 miles - then it would likely lose more like 30 - 40 mins and that would be unacceptable and cause massive service disruption. of course delay repay would start to kick in too.
Are the spare ex-Avanti 221's so different that they cannot be drafted in to help? But then again where would they store them?

EDIT: Berth timings for 222 020 on 1F52

Loughboro LR512 to NE4481 - good 222 = 2:44, 1F52 today 3:25

Long Eaton NE4429 to DY5033 - good 222 = 3:40 , 1F52 today 4:38

Chesterfield TN4889 to Y$ 0043 - good 222 = 4:01 - 1F52 today 5:01

A 222 on 4 engines and an 810 normally around 15 to 20 secs slower than a good 222 on these sections.

On Monday 222 020 started the day on 1D08 northbound out of Kettering with a 5:10 timing on a section where 3:58 is the norm.

Was on 810011 21:00 Sheffield (to Leicester) on my way home. That was minus one engine, and lost time consistently. God knows how late it will be by St Pancras. Now on 222010 Leicester to Kettering which is also down at least one engine, although remarkably, initially kept time well until it got held up by the ailing 810111 in front of it from East Midlands Parkway. It really is a sorry state of affairs.

 

[Railperf]

Was on 810011 21:00 Sheffield (to Leicester) on my way home. That was minus one engine, and lost time consistently. God knows how late it will be by St Pancras. Now on 222010 Leicester to Kettering which is also down at least one engine, although remarkably, initially kept time well until it got held up by the ailing 810111 in front of it from East Midlands Parkway. It really is a sorry state of affairs.

I had 810011 on two engines a couple of weeks back. That was desperately slow but fortunately non stop Leicester to Nottingham and had the fortune of getting stuck behind a late local service.
At least they can switch to electric power after Leicester which allows them to keep up with a good 222 again.

 

[liamf656]

Was on 810011 21:00 Sheffield (to Leicester) on my way home. That was minus one engine, and lost time consistently. God knows how late it will be by St Pancras. Now on 222010 Leicester to Kettering which is also down at least one engine, although remarkably, initially kept time well until it got held up by the ailing 810111 in front of it from East Midlands Parkway. It really is a sorry state of affairs.

Your delay was nothing to do with the engines. A late running Crosscountry service held you up between Sheffield and Derby

 

[Railperf]

Your delay was nothing to do with the engines. A late running Crosscountry service held you up between Sheffield and Derby

Will do the analysis later but the XC would have been clear enough ahead after Chesterfield to give the EMR service a clear run but it still continued to lose a few mins to Leicester.

Based on the fact a 222 needs 4 engines minimum and a good driver to maintain the timings, then an 810 with full set of engines also needs the same.

If an 810 loses one engine, it will lose time on sections where there are no additional recovery pathing or performance allowances or stations where it can gain time with a shorter station stop.

Yesterdays star performers were units 6, 8, 9, 15 and 19 - bottom of the pile units 10,11,13, 14, 102, 103 - dire were 20, 101

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Feb 2026 ==

Your delay was nothing to do with the engines. A late running Crosscountry service held you up between Sheffield and Derby

Actually 810011 was quite a bit slower than usual 810 accelerating away from Loughborough SB - So definitely low on power.

 

[apinnard]

Will do the analysis later but the XC would have been clear enough ahead after Chesterfield to give the EMR service a clear run but it still continued to lose a few mins to Leicester.

Based on the fact a 222 needs 4 engines minimum and a good driver to maintain the timings, then an 810 with full set of engines also needs the same.

If an 810 loses one engine, it will lose time on sections where there are no additional recovery pathing or performance allowances or stations where it can gain time with a shorter station stop.

Yesterdays star performers were units 6, 8, 9, 15 and 19 - bottom of the pile units 10,11,13, 14, 102, 103 - dire were 20, 101

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Feb 2026 ==


Actually 810011 was quite a bit slower than usual 810 accelerating away from Loughborough SB - So definitely low on power.

It felt on par with 222020 on my outward trip up to Sheffield. Poor.

 

[Amos390]

Is there any news on 222007 as that’s still not returned after the Bedford Fault a few weeks ago, I’ve not seen anything about it coming into service anytime soon, and surely that ones got to go into the ‘dire pile’ for 222 performances

 

[dosxuk]

Yeah, I suppose at Scotrail they'll be exited about 'new trains' and do what EMR are currently doing with the 810s - discarding the old stock in the back and focusing most the attention on the new ones whilst the old ones slowly fall apart in the background

I don't get the impression the team at EMR are just letting the old ones slowly fall apart - the issues seem to be much more about needing such a large proportion of the fleet out in service every day that there is such little time to fix minor or medium issues. I'm sure if they could leave a couple more in the depot each day then many of these issues would go away.