Reform UK discussion

[SuspectUsual]

Yes, but as per the graph @brad465 posted, productivity was rising in the decade before the pandemic.

To be honest the graph is interesting but meaningless in the context of this discussion, because it includes *all* the public sector, right?

Surely the relevant data is productivity for public sector jobs which cannot solely be performed at the place of work?

 

[35B]

To be honest the graph is interesting but meaningless in the context of this discussion, because it includes *all* the public sector, right?

Surely the relevant data is productivity for public sector jobs which cannot solely be performed at the place of work?

I'd suggest at this macro level the relevant data is the degree of working from home compared with public sector productivity. You might then start to be able to draw meaningful inferences.

 

[Railwaycat]

Yes it could backfire, but I suspect most hybrid workers have more intelligence than to vote for Reform.

This is exactly who this appeals to.

It's a very clever strategy, ignore or alienate even more those who will never vote for you but reinforce your core vote (in case they may be wavering). I have friends who are centre right (definitely anti Labour) who are appalled by the thought of a Reform government.

 

[jon0844]

Surely Reform’s issue with working from home could backfire?

I can’t imagine working from home is only done by the ‘woke left’? There’s surely many right wingers who are also hybrid working and reaping the benefits?

Though they’re probably targeting retired people who think young people are lazy, or working people who went to the ‘university of life’ and ‘school of hard knocks’ and business owners who would happily bring back workhouses.

There are newspaper columnists writing about the need to get back to work that write from home or their holiday apartment in Spain (or wherever). I can't quote anyone right now but I've seen some called out on social media.

They want you at work, not them.

 

[Bantamzen]

Its also worth keeping in mind that many areas are changing the way they work post covid, adopting new technologies, as well as dealing with a new government's policies. These will also be acting as drivers to reduce productivity, you can see a similar effect around 2010 when productivity dropped as a new government came in.

 

[sor]

Surely Reform’s issue with working from home could backfire?

I can’t imagine working from home is only done by the ‘woke left’? There’s surely many right wingers who are also hybrid working and reaping the benefits?

Though they’re probably targeting retired people who think young people are lazy, or working people who went to the ‘university of life’ and ‘school of hard knocks’ and business owners who would happily bring back workhouses.

The one person I know that is an avowed Farageite (he attended a rally back in the Brexit Party days) would certainly disagree completely with him on this. Not just because his own commute is probably an hour round trip and he very much enjoys our employers' hybrid working policy.

As others have said, it's essentially boomer bait (the generation that has largely left the workforce). Most of them had to commute to work, therefore so should their (grand)kids and let's not discuss how much actual work got done while they were "collaborating" with their colleagues. Let's also not have any meaningful investment in public transport to make it quicker, easier or cheaper to get to said workplace. It then should not be surprising why Reform's youth vote is near non existent.

 

[35B]

The one person I know that is an avowed Farageite (he attended a rally back in the Brexit Party days) would certainly disagree completely with him on this. Not just because his own commute is probably an hour round trip and he very much enjoys our employers' hybrid working policy.

As others have said, it's essentially boomer bait (the generation that has largely left the workforce). Most of them had to commute to work, therefore so should their (grand)kids and let's not discuss how much actual work got done while they were "collaborating" with their colleagues. Let's also not have any meaningful investment in public transport to make it quicker, easier or cheaper to get to said workplace. It then should not be surprising why Reform's youth vote is near non existent.

Many such "boomers", and indeed those who don't do office work, find the ability to work remotely really disconcerting.

 

[alex397]

There are newspaper columnists writing about the need to get back to work that write from home or their holiday apartment in Spain (or wherever). I can't quote anyone right now but I've seen some called out on social media.

They want you at work, not them.

A good example is the lovely Richard Littlejohn, who has written articles ranting about working from home, but he lives in Florida. He doesn’t commute to Daily Mail HQ

 

[Horizon22]

In the interest of balance, this is also true of extreme left-wing revolutionary stuff - or indeed of anyone who gets a bee in their bonnet about an issue. Although the “common sense” epithet does seem to have been hijacked by the right at the moment.

Oh yes, extremes are generally pretty bad. But people turn to them when moderate policy have either been less successful, they feel “forgotten” and/or they want a simple answer to a complex problem.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Feb 2026 ==

Many such "boomers", and indeed those who don't do office work, find the ability to work remotely really disconcerting.

I suppose there is that element of “well we had to so why can’t you?”. Despite the fact many haven’t been in the workforce fully for potentially some time!

 

[35B]

I suppose there is that element of “well we had to so why can’t you?”. Despite the fact many haven’t been in the workforce fully for potentially some time!

There is that, but there's also a simple element of incomprehension - that they can't understand how someone could be productive without being at "the office".

Back in 2020, I encountered a lot of people suddenly finding themselves getting used to Zoom or Teams, who'd never had a remote meeting before. I'd been doing conference calls for over 20 years at the time and, once internet speeds became usable, was used to working from home off and on.

As humans, we're collectively really bad at imagining ourselves in the position of others. So the idea that we might be able to work effectively from home is alien, even to people who did so during Covid and/or who do a lot of voluntary work from home.

 

[Horizon22]

There is that, but there's also a simple element of incomprehension - that they can't understand how someone could be productive without being at "the office".

Back in 2020, I encountered a lot of people suddenly finding themselves getting used to Zoom or Teams, who'd never had a remote meeting before. I'd been doing conference calls for over 20 years at the time and, once internet speeds became usable, was used to working from home off and on.

As humans, we're collectively really bad at imagining ourselves in the position of others. So the idea that we might be able to work effectively from home is alien, even to people who did so during Covid and/or who do a lot of voluntary work from home.

Yep, definitely true that people can’t picture themselves in the same scenario and some people seem wedded to the idea that the commuting grind must continue for all!

 

[DoubleLemon]

It's great to see Reform coming out against working from home just after 100s of millions from a donation by a major office developer / landlord based in London.

 

[Bald Rick]

https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2020905026806247585

This response is quite apt:

And this response is absolutely spot on:

While some people may need to be, or want to be, in an office environment all the time, I would say hybrid working is absolutely my preference and I am very happy with it.

I don't see how Reform could "ban" working from home, and if they attempt it, then the UK would surely lose jobs to other countries.

However, Reform is all about saying provocative statements that aren't based on reality but simply appeal to the far-right, racists, xenophobes, and people who are easily led. Hopefully there's enough normal/regular/sensible people to vote them out.

I've got no time for anyone who supports the likes of Farage, Orban, Trump or any of their ilk.

In Farage’s defence, he practises what he preaches.

He hasn’t been seen working in his home constituency very much, if at all.

 

[Tester]

In Farage’s defence, he practises what he preaches.

He hasn’t been seen working in his home constituency very much, if at all.

I have heard it suggested that if you want to minimise the chances of unintentionally bumping into him, Clacton is the place to be.

 

[35B]

The solution there is of course to skip a generation in the inheritance - though that may spread the proceeds a bit thinner.

Hmmm. In my case, I'm one of 3 but the only one with kids. The inheritance is important to my siblings' chances, especially as they live in SW London so prices are ridiculously high. Talking to my IFA, the proportion that I'll inherit will be a very necessary part of my retirement income, bearing in mind what I've been able to afford to and expect to be able to save into a DC pension* scheme. We will use a deed of variation to help our kids with a proportion of he inheritance.

it would really be much better if the state clawed back a load of it to fund things that will help people in their 20s grow, like free education and apprenticeships, and it'd not have in any way harmed them if it was only 4 cruises per year they could afford.

I have paid what the solicitor called "an eye watering amount" in Inheritance Tax. While I agree that government should do things to help people find their feet and be self-sustaining, the assumption that if taxes were higher these would be funded is implausible.

* - Another factor in the "hollowing out" rightly noted by @Bletchleyite is the loss of Defined Benefit schemes. That may have been inevitable, but those who have such schemes do need to consider their relative privilege when opining on others.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have paid what the solicitor called "an eye watering amount" in Inheritance Tax. While I agree that government should do things to help people find their feet and be self-sustaining, the assumption that if taxes were higher these would be funded is implausible.

Scandinavia and most of Europe disagrees, but this is a view largely proffered by the rich who would be the target of such taxation. And Reform, which despite their populist line are a party for the benefit of rich people.

In reality nobody needs to inherit anything because it typically comes so late in life that it's just spent on luxuries because the person's life is already established, and there's no guarantee you get anything anyway as it might go on care costs. I don't actually propose 100% IHT, but it could certainly be much higher with little or no serious downsides bar to the typically rich inheritor.

* - Another factor in the "hollowing out" rightly noted by @Bletchleyite is the loss of Defined Benefit schemes. That may have been inevitable, but those who have such schemes do need to consider their relative privilege when opining on others.

We can debate the state pension, but Defined Benefit pension schemes absolutely are Ponzi schemes. Indeed, so much of the capitalist system is that in some form, yet nobody (not even Reform) is willing to address that honestly.

 

[35B]

We can debate the state pension, but Defined Benefit pension schemes absolutely are Ponzi schemes. Indeed, so much of the capitalist system is that in some form, yet nobody (not even Reform) is willing to address that honestly.

They may well be, but the point here is that those who benefit from them need to be aware that others who do not are in a fundamentally different position.

Scandinavia and most of Europe disagrees, but this is a view largely proffered by the rich who would be the target of such taxation. And Reform, which despite their populist line are a party for the benefit of rich people.

In reality nobody needs to inherit anything because it typically comes so late in life that it's just spent on luxuries because the person's life is already established, and there's no guarantee you get anything anyway as it might go on care costs. I don't actually propose 100% IHT, but it could certainly be much higher with little or no serious downsides bar to the typically rich inheritor.

I'm deliberately not commenting on the rates, save to observe that the 6 figure sum paid from my father's estate could easily have been avoided had he planned for it. My issue is not about thresholds, but with the underlying assumption that the state is specifically virtuous and can be relied upon. Comparisons with Scandinavia or elsewhere are risky, as they sit within a wider context of what government does and how it works - a much wider topic.

We do agree, though that Reform are not about fixing any of these issues.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm deliberately not commenting on the rates, save to observe that the 6 figure sum paid from my father's estate could easily have been avoided had he planned for it.

If you paid a six figure sum (even a low one) of IHT given the rates and number of exemptions (e.g. primary residence relief) then frankly you are rich. Filthy rich by average standards. Thus I'm afraid I would struggle with any sympathy and would be fully in support of it having been charged.

The one exception to that is that where it was a family farm I'd put it on the land as a charge, payable if it's sold or repurposed, because we do need farms.

My issue is not about thresholds, but with the underlying assumption that the state is specifically virtuous and can be relied upon. Comparisons with Scandinavia or elsewhere are risky, as they sit within a wider context of what government does and how it works - a much wider topic.

We do agree, though that Reform are not about fixing any of these issues.

Reform is certainly not going to make the state any more trustworthy, I'd completely agree!

The mastery of Reform is that they've got people who will objectively lose out from their policies to support them. All by whipping up a furore about immigration (which does pose some issues to be fair, and does need debating, so I in part blame other parties for shying away from the discussion, just as I blame the Democrats for losing against Trump and the "remain" campaign for Brexit - both were arrogant and negligent and so it was theirs to lose, and they lost).

 

[35B]

If you paid a six figure sum (even a low one) of IHT given the rates and number of exemptions (e.g. primary residence relief) then frankly you are rich. Filthy rich by average standards. Thus I'm afraid I would struggle with any sympathy and would be fully in support of it having been charged.

I'm not looking for sympathy - the tax was due and all three of us regard what we are getting as a genuine windfall. I challenge the "filthy rick" moniker, because much of the value was due to the specific features of the London property market, which makes really quite ordinary houses appear very valuable.

The point about tax planning is that, had he engaged in relatively simple tax planning, my father would very easily have been able to materially reduce the value of the estate - and therefore the IHT payable. One of the most potent criticisms of IHT is that it is so easy to plan for and avoid, is expensive to process, and raises relatively little.

 

[NeilCr]

An advert from Reform advertising a senior role within their organisation. The location is Home working with occasional travel. Somewhat ironic given Farage's recent comments on the topic of home working.

 

[pug1]

Isn't the work from home stuff mainly aimed at the civil service? Which government can control.
It may be merely correlation, but productivity in the civil service fell off a cliff when they all started working from home during the pandemic and hasn't recovered since.

Perhaps so, but the problem is that in order to remain competitive and get the right people in the right positions the civil service will need to compete with the private sector counterparts. We’re seeing this with the various Reform gains across the country and the job adverts offering hybrid working positions! So yes Farage would like to strong arm the private sector to follow suit.

I’ve done hybrid working previously and it worked incredibly well. One of the contractors we used is fully remote and has been since the company was created 30 years ago. They have face-to -face time only at social events designed to bring the team together, often over a beer and a posh meal paid for, presumably, through savings on not owning or renting a commercial property!

WFH revolution should be fully embraced, not only will it do a world of good for the net zero effort (not that Regurge support it), but it also has positive implications on ‘levelling up’. The brain drain from towns and cities like Hull and others can be stemmed by virtue of the fact that you don’t need to live within a given radius of the office.

This is just an example of Farage doing what he and any ineffective ‘leader’ would do, play the old divide and rule card.

 

[35B]

The principle is that the contributions of today's workers (with investment growth) fund their own future pensions when they retire. They are not paying for today's pensioners' future pensions. The number of current workers in a scheme should not matter.

In a DC scheme, I agree. In a DB scheme, that is not true - indeed the opposite is true, as existing pensioners have first call in the event of problems. If (per @Broucek) it is fully funded, then that problem is hopefully not apparent - but still rests hevaily on key assumptions

However the same generations worked to allow a society where through buying property they gave younger generations safer, more stable places to grow up in, far more opportunities to go into higher education, an economy that for the most part has allowed for minimum wages and working hour regulations, and generally where the quality of life is overall far better. What would the UK be like if those generations had not worked hard, and saved and invested harder, but instead spent the money as soon as it came in, and instead of buying rented all their lives? Would the same conditions exist? I suspect not. They certainly didn't through the 60s, 70s and 80s. Many people did have to work really hard, I mean really hard to keep things above water, it wasn't all plain sailing. It's always worth keeping this in mind.

All most people tried to do through mine and older generations (I'm 56 this year) is what they were advised to do at the time, save and invest for the future. Have something aside in capital or property to help the next generations. They weren't to know that property prices would go crazy, especially in the South East where through poor government policies most of the high waged jobs would end up in, and eventually force prices up in an ever expanding bubble as the commuter belt grew and grew. If any people should be vilified it is successive governments on both sides of the political spectrum, who chased the dream of keeping the UK relevant globally via financial industries, but completely neglected many others that simply caused huge disparity between different parts of the country.

I quite agree, and it's why I'm very careful not to blame "boomers". They grew up in the circumstances of their time, and made decisions based on what was reasonable.

The issue is that, as a voting bloc, "the grey vote" are a strong force restraining politicians from dealing with the issues that make life harder for younger people now. They are fiercely protective of the good things they get, and frequently deploy "avocado toast" type myths to suggest that if the young just lived like monks, they'd be fine. These discussions simply don't address the issues of magnitude that make it hard to get on the housing ladder, or the costs of rental, or the importance of electronics to be able to lead a normal life.

 

[Cowley]

There’s a couple of new threads below to discuss some of the things that weren’t necessarily to do with Reform

Inequality between generations

I suppose there is that element of “well we had to so why can’t you?”. Despite the fact many haven’t been in the workforce fully for potentially some time! mods note - split from this thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/reform-uk-discussion.285022/ And despite the fact that that...

www.railforums.co.uk

Private pensions and state pensions discussion

We can debate the state pension, but Defined Benefit pension schemes absolutely are Ponzi schemes. Indeed, so much of the capitalist system is that in some form, yet nobody (not even Reform) is willing to address that honestly. mods note - split from this thread...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Harpo]

It made me smile that Farage has described the Tories as an ‘old fuddy-duddy’ party. Not sure the kids around me will have come across anyone younger than their grandparents using that term.

Reform is replacing 'old fuddy duddy' Tories, says Farage

Farage said it was "no surprise" Conservative MPs were choosing to jump ship to Reform, which has more energy.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[AlterEgo]

Fuddy-duddy is definitely still in use, and enjoying a resurgence.

Google Books Ngram Viewer

Google Ngrams: Fuddy-duddy, 1800-2022

books.google.com

 

[317 forever]

With Reform having so many former Conservative MPs, the party is less of a change from the established parties than they make themselves out to be.

Hopefully voters in Gorton & Denton will get wind of this .....

 

[Lewisham2221]

With Reform having so many former Conservative MPs, the party is less of a change from the established parties than they make themselves out to be.

Hopefully voters in Gorton & Denton will get wind of this .....

Anecdotally, the ones who do realise/care, unfortunately seem to be the ones who support even further right parties/policies.

 

[Howardh]

With Reform having so many former Conservative MPs, the party is less of a change from the established parties than they make themselves out to be.

Hopefully voters in Gorton & Denton will get wind of this .....

The new party organised by Lowe I doubt will be standing at Gorton/Denton, but there does appear to be movement towards that (whatever it's called) than Farage's Army of ex-Tories that have diluted Brand Reform? If that actually happens, and the new party gets more support than Reform (what WILL GBNews do...???) will that finally be the end of Farage and Tice???

 

[GusB]

The new party organised by Lowe I doubt will be standing at Gorton/Denton, but there does appear to be movement towards that (whatever it's called) than Farage's Army of ex-Tories that have diluted Brand Reform? If that actually happens, and the new party gets more support than Reform (what WILL GBNews do...???) will that finally be the end of Farage and Tice???

"Restore Britain" is Lowe's new party. I've seen clips of a video he released and it sends a rather chilling messsge. Together with Advance UK, along with the dregs of UKIP, I wonder if we'll see the Refoam vote fractured.

 

[martin butler]

"Restore Britain" is Lowe's new party. I've seen clips of a video he released and it sends a rather chilling messsge. Together with Advance UK, along with the dregs of UKIP, I wonder if we'll see the Refoam vote fractured.

Is the far-right vote splintering? I think in part it might be down to so many Tories now jumping ship across to Reform, that the people who backed reform, who now think it's now just the old conservative party, under a new name.

Might it be that many who were attracted to reform, was because the Tories were not extreme enough for them,