First use of yellow line for first class?

[AdamWW]

I've just seen an upcoming model of some GER (liveried) "Jazz" 4 wheel coaches, and was surprised to see a very thick yellow line under the roof for the first class coach.

The description says:
https://www.accurascale.com/products/genesis-4w-great-eastern-railway-jazz-crimson-lake-pack-a

Body mouldings were picked out in cream or primrose lining, and a new serifed lettering style was adopted, along with smaller class numerals on door panels where possible. As suburban stock, these carriages did not carry the GER armorial device. First- and second-class carriages were instead denoted by the addition of broad colour bands beneath the eaves—chrome yellow for first class and French blue for second.

I doubt they'd be making this up. So...for those more knowledgable then I in such things....assuming this is real, was this the first use of yellow for first class?

 

[D1537]

I've just seen an upcoming model of some GER (liveried) "Jazz" 4 wheel coaches, and was surprised to see a very thick yellow line under the roof for the first class coach.

The description says:
https://www.accurascale.com/products/genesis-4w-great-eastern-railway-jazz-crimson-lake-pack-a

I doubt they'd be making this up. So...for those more knowledgable then I in such things....assuming this is real, was this the first use of yellow for first class?

Yes, and I believe it was 1920 that it started.

 

[AdamWW]

Yes, and I believe it was 1920 that it started.

Interesting. I presume that it didn't catch on at the time.

Actually, given that yellow stripes became common across much of Europe, I'm now wondering how (and when) this was agreed on as a standard, and whether it's just a coincidence that they picked the same colour as the GER.

I presume that when the UK railways were privatised it could have been made a requirement for the yellow band to continue to be used, and it might have been quite useful if it had.

 

[StephenHunter]

I guess the UIC would have been involved somewhere.

 

[stuving]

Yes, and I believe it was 1920 that it started.

Yes, it was announced in July 1920, as part of an enhanced service on some lines. Services between Liverpool Street and Chingford, Enfield, and Palace Gates were increased by 50% and described as "accelerated". The colour bands were broad so as to be seen from a distance, as they were intended to speed up boarding.

 

[30907]

Yes, it was announced in July 1920, as part of an enhanced service on some lines. Services between Liverpool Street and Chingford, Enfield, and Palace Gates were increased by 50% and described as "accelerated". The colour bands were broad so as to be seen from a distance, as they were intended to speed up boarding.

They were indeed "jazzed up" - the phrase only dates from the previous decade says OED.

 

[70014IronDuke]

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember yellow lines appearing generally on BR stock in October, 1960.

 

[Acathater]

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember yellow lines appearing generally on BR stock in October, 1960.

It's certainly been in regular use since the 60s if not earlier - along with red for restaurant cars

 

[Port Road]

I do believe that for a while "Virgin trains" were the only operator in Europe who didn't apply a yellow line along the top of first class coaches..... Good old Richard Branston - makes a lovely pickle!

 

[stuving]

I may be wrong, but I seem to remember yellow lines appearing generally on BR stock in October, 1960.

Introduction on all regions by BR was announced in August 1962. The bands were still described as broad - four inches - and were to go on "main line trains" and all Southern Region electrics. This followed trial use on the Kent coast and Eastern Region electric trains. Whatever happened between 1920 and 1962 does not appear to have been newsworthy.

 

[signed]

I do believe that for a while "Virgin trains" were the only operator in Europe who didn't apply a yellow line along the top of first class coaches..... Good old Richard Branston - makes a lovely pickle!

There has never been yellow lines on 1st class coaches on TGV stock (nor on any SNCF stock for that matter)

 

[AlterEgo]

I do believe that for a while "Virgin trains" were the only operator in Europe who didn't apply a yellow line along the top of first class coaches..... Good old Richard Branston - makes a lovely pickle!

Not even close to being true.

 

[eastwestdivide]

There has never been yellow lines on 1st class coaches on TGV stock (nor on any SNCF stock for that matter)

Never say never - here's a link to a photo of an SNCF Corail first class with a yellow stripe:

Trains d'Europe : Voitures Corail VU de nuit SNCF

 

[The Pelican]

In terms of places you might have vaguely expected to see a yellow first class line but can't, this is a 1906 hand coloured postcard of a Metropolitan railway train- no yellow stripe it seems.

photographic postcard of Metropolitan Railway electric locomotive and train, c1906 | London Transport Museum

postcard

www.ltmuseum.co.uk

Similarly, this 1900 Met Bogie stock carriage has "third" painted on the doors of the appropriate compatments:

Collections close up: Metropolitan Railway coach, 1900 | London Transport Museum

Our Metropolitan Railway coach dates from 1900. Read more about one of a group of coaches designed to be hauled by steam locomotives on the Metropolitan Railway.

www.ltmuseum.co.uk

A tube line with first class would have seemed like an obvious place to display it prominently!

 

[signed]

Never say never - here's a link to a photo of an SNCF Corail first class with a yellow stripe:

Trains d'Europe : Voitures Corail VU de nuit SNCF

Very interesting, thanks for the correction

 

[eldomtom2]

In terms of places you might have vaguely expected to see a yellow first class line but can't, this is a 1906 hand coloured postcard of a Metropolitan railway train- no yellow stripe it seems.

I'm not sure a hand coloured postcard would have included enough detail to show yellow first class lines. The colours tended towards large blocks and I've seen examples of e.g. loco smokeboxes being coloured the same as the rest of the loco.

 

[30907]

There has never been yellow lines on 1st class coaches on any SNCF stock

I certainly recall them in the (late 60s/early 70s) green livery era and photos online confirm it. It was IIRC a UIC policy and fairly widely used.

 

[WesternLancer]

There has never been yellow lines on 1st class coaches on TGV stock (nor on any SNCF stock for that matter)

I do not think that’s correct. Hornby AcHo modelled main line and suburban SNCF carriages in the 1960s and all the first class carriages had yellow stripes. I’m sure that reflected the real thing.

And some yellow lines on stock pictured here.

Voiture de voyageurs DEV AO A4B5 n°4654

Participez à la préservation d’une voiture de voyageurs de 1961 afin qu’elle puisse continuer à circuler pour des voyages historiques

www.fondation-patrimoine.org

 

[Taunton]

The Jazz service on the GE North-East London lines was towards the end of the GER. The trains were predominantly third class, I believe just one coach (4-wheeled) each of first and second. The scheme didn't last long once the LNER came along and Gresley built the Quint-Art sets for the service. Second class incidentally was abandoned on LNER services and the Quint-Arts in I think 1938, and then first class within London just a couple of years later after WW2 began.

The more general yellow line came from continental Europe, where the UIC rail standards organisation advocated it from the late 1950s. Like a number of other UIC initiatives the Southern Region boat train services through Dover picked it up first, it then spread across the Southern, followed by nationally.

 

[Acathater]

The more general yellow line came from continental Europe, where the UIC rail standards organisation advocated it from the late 1950s. Like a number of other UIC initiatives the Southern Region boat train services through Dover picked it up first, it then spread across the Southern, followed by nationally.

I can remember yellow stripes on the green first class Mk2 coaches used on the Weymouth boat trains, clearly visible from the beach while the trains were parked at the harbour around lunchtime.
And just to pre-empt comments on another forum from being repeated here: they were bright yellow, possibly the same as locomotive warning panels. Not the washed out cream colour others seem to remember

 

[The Pelican]

I'm not sure a hand coloured postcard would have included enough detail to show yellow first class lines. The colours tended towards large blocks and I've seen examples of e.g. loco smokeboxes being coloured the same as the rest of the loco.

Yes, you're quite right that they often made mistakes in the colouring in.