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Which sites to purchase train tickets?

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Mal75756

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I am about to start travelling a lot more for pleasure purposes. I tend to use Trainline to check prices and train times but when buying what tickets I have done, have used a combination of northern, this forums ticket site and rarely Trainline.

Is there a single site people, who travel a lot on here, use or do you jump between different sites.

To add to my choice I did see an advert on green signals YouTube channel an advert for TrainPal and that looked quite good.
 
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jfollows

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This site, except for Avanti advance tickets, for which I use their site. Boundary Zone 6 if I had to buy them also. Although I buy the majority of my tickets at the station on the day, if they’re flexible tickets, because I might change my mind between leaving home and arriving at the station.

Avanti only because it makes Delay Repay slightly easier. Otherwise this site, buy ticket, add to wallet, easy.
 
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Buzby

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I like the idea of supporting the Forum, so use the Tickets option at the banner at the top of the page. Never found the tickets cheaper elsewhere, the only downside is you cannot partake in ToC promotions, but as I rarely use individual ToCs for similar journeys, it’s not an issue
 

milooo

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I can also agree that the forums site is easy to use and very cheap and I use it on a regular basis
 

thejuggler

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Local trips my local TOC, London - LNER for perks, longer trips where splits may be available the forum site.
 

JB_B

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.... Boundary Zone 6 if I had to buy them also....

The forum site does sell Boundary Zone 6 tickets. The way it's exposed in the interface isn't particularly obvious (at least not to me - probably because I'm used to just entering Boundary Zone 6 as the destination/origin - both on ticket machines and websites.)

With the forum site you need to use your intended destination/origin within the zones rather than "Boundary Zone 6" and then use advanced options to add "travelcard (etc) already held ".
 

jfollows

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The forum site does sell Boundary Zone 6 tickets. The way it's exposed in the interface isn't particularly obvious (at least not to me - probably because I'm used to just entering Boundary Zone 6 as the destination/origin - both on ticket machines and websites.)

With the forum site you need to use your intended destination/origin within the zones rather than "Boundary Zone 6" and then use advanced options to add "travelcard (etc) already held ".
I know, but I can never remember how to do it, so it’s much easier to go to Avanti and buy it directly.
The forum’s web site essentially makes you ask for something you don’t want in order to get something you do want, it’s counter-intuitive. For all other purchases it seems fine.
 

JB_B

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The forum’s web site essentially makes you ask for something you don’t want in order to get something you do want, it’s counter-intuitive...
Yes, that's true.
 

trainophile

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Trainsplit all the time, except for very rare occasions when they don't have a particular ticket that I've found elsewhere. I believe they are linked to the forum's site so hopefully my purchases will still benefit them.
 

yorkie

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Trainsplit all the time, except for very rare occasions when they don't have a particular ticket that I've found elsewhere. I believe they are linked to the forum's site so hopefully my purchases will still benefit them.
The forum only benefits if you use the forum branded site.

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The forum’s web site essentially makes you ask for something you don’t want in order to get something you do want, it’s counter-intuitive.
No; actually it asks for the overall journey you are making, and what Travelcard (or equivalent pass) is already held.

It then calculates the appropriate ticket (this may not be from BZ6)

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HiLocal trips my local TOC, London - LNER for perks
LNER perks can be added for tickets bought elsewhere; you don't have to pay the premium the LNER site charges over ours for some journeys.

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I travel an awful lot and always use the LNER site
Do you have a way of getting a PRIV discount, or do you pay extra for the purpose of testing the site and providing feedback to the supplier?

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To add to my choice I did see an advert on green signals YouTube channel an advert for TrainPal and that looked quite good.
Have you read about the many customer service issues reported by forum members using TrainPal?

They also do dodgy adverts, where they make all sorts of dubious claims (see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/dubious-trainpal-adverts.293495/)

I met them once; they wanted to partner with us. I was not at all convinced by anything they had to say. We refused to partner with them and chose Trainsplit instead.

I am confident we made the right choice. Indeed several forum members went on to work for Trainsplit and so if any member experiences a problem with a purchase through the forum site, it's worth getting in touch with us to see what we can do to help.
 
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andy33gmail

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I use Uber as they ticket split without stealing 15% of the saving and give you 3% cashback (at the moment). More if you're daft enough to pay for an Uber One account.

Edit: that's not a dig specifically at the forum's website - that seems to be the going rate across various providers
 

styles

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In all honesty I use a mix.

I use the forum site for journeys I'm sure I'll benefit from split tickets.

I am guilty of, if the split savings are very big, forming my own basket on the TfW website, as while I don't mind paying a share of the savings as a finder's reward, sometimes it can be quite a bit. I suppose if the share of savings were capped I would reconsider some of them.

For journeys where I don't think I'll benefit from split tickets, I use the TfW website because I get 10% cashback from the 'Complete Savings' or 'NX Rewards' dodgy-looking cashback site, and again, when spending large amounts on tickets, it can make a big difference.

Then there are some times I use TOC-specific sites for their specific offers. Club Avanti journeys only count if you buy from Avanti for example. ScotRail had a flat fare £20 return anywhere in Scotland recently, but only bookable on the ScotRail website. That sort of thing.

I believe there are some credit card or bank account cashback offers which come and go but I don't pay much attention to them.

So yeah, I support the forum sometimes, and not some other times.
 

bcarmicle

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I am guilty of, if the split savings are very big, forming my own basket on the TfW website, as while I don't mind paying a share of the savings as a finder's reward, sometimes it can be quite a bit. I suppose if the share of savings were capped I would reconsider some of them.
I believe the position of the forum management (and possibly of Trainsplit as well) is that it would strongly prefer that if you are going to recreate the split manually, that you nonetheless do so on the forum's site so that it at least earns the retailing commission even if not the share of savings fee, given it has gone to the effort of finding the split.
 

styles

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I believe the position of the forum management (and possibly of Trainsplit as well) is that it would strongly prefer that if you are going to recreate the split manually, that you nonetheless do so on the forum's site so that it at least earns the retailing commission even if not the share of savings fee, given it has gone to the effort of finding the split.
Possibly. I have had issues with VPNs on the forum ticketing website in past months so I haven't used it as much. Those do appear to have resolved themself somehow though!
 

andy33gmail

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I believe the position of the forum management (and possibly of Trainsplit as well) is that it would strongly prefer that if you are going to recreate the split manually, that you nonetheless do so on the forum's site so that it at least earns the retailing commission even if not the share of savings fee, given it has gone to the effort of finding the split.
I hadn't appreciated there was commission paid that side - as I'm used to most retailers (except ToCs and stations) charging a booking fee

Out of interest, how much is that commission - as it's made me wonder whether Uber's "daft" 3% cashback is actually cost neutral rather than a loss leader
 

yorkie

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I use Uber as they ticket split without stealing 15% of the saving and give you 3% cashback (at the moment). More if you're daft enough to pay for an Uber One account.

Edit: that's not a dig specifically at the forum's website - that seems to be the going rate across various providers
That's fine, but their splits aren't as good, so you could be paying more than that overall. They also don't have a seat selector.

Also, the reason Uber is able to not charge any proportion of the savings, is because they skimp on customer service (e.g. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/no-full-refund-for-split-ticket-on-abandoned-journey.294679/ )

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I am guilty of, if the split savings are very big, forming my own basket on the TfW website, as while I don't mind paying a share of the savings as a finder's reward, sometimes it can be quite a bit. I suppose if the share of savings were capped I would reconsider some of them.
That's very unfair to book them with TfW. Why not book them on the forum's site?

Every time you use the forum site for research, it costs the retailer money and reduces the viability of splitting sites, which RDG are already very unhappy with, before you get into the issue of low look to book ratios.

The forum's site doesn't charge a booking fee, so you won't be paying any less by using TfW to book the same journeys on the forum site.
For journeys where I don't think I'll benefit from split tickets, I use the TfW website because I get 10% cashback from the 'Complete Savings' or 'NX Rewards' dodgy-looking cashback site, and again, when spending large amounts on tickets, it can make a big difference.
Unfortunately TOCs such as LNER and TfW have the advantage of taxpayers money to subsidise things like cashback. The forum's site doesn't have access to taxpayer cash to fund this.

I hadn't appreciated there was commission paid that side - as I'm used to most retailers (except ToCs and stations) charging a booking fee
The forum site does not charge a booking fee, so you won't be paying more than a TOC site would charge.
Out of interest, how much is that commission - as it's made me wonder whether Uber's "daft" 3% cashback is actually cost neutral rather than a loss leader
If there is a saving, then 15% is kept by the site and 85% is passed onto the customer.

If you want to add each ticket manually, you can do, and this would avoid the share-of-savings fee. As there is no booking fee, the price you pay would just be the face value of the tickets.
 

andy33gmail

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That's fine, but their splits aren't as good, so you could be paying more than that overall. They also don't have a seat selector.

Also, the reason Uber is able to not charge any proportion of the savings, is because they skimp on customer service (e.g. https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/no-full-refund-for-split-ticket-on-abandoned-journey.294679/ )
I'll keep that in mind. I quite often cross-check with https://splitticketing.com/, but you're right I should try against the forum's tool as well. Often with splitticketing the saving isn't "real", as the 15% comes from an artificially high base (e.g. peak when the alternative was off-peak).
 

yorkie

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I'll keep that in mind. I quite often cross-check with https://splitticketing.com/, but you're right I should try against the forum's tool as well. Often with splitticketing the saving isn't "real", as the 15% comes from an artificially high base (e.g. peak when the alternative was off-peak).
That site is effectively the same as the forum site (same back end provided by Raileasy Ltd, using FastJP fares and itineraries), but a different interface.
 
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styles

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That's very unfair to book them with TfW. Why not book them on the forum's site?

Every time you use the forum site for research, it costs the retailer money and reduces the viability of splitting sites, which RDG are already very unhappy with, before you get into the issue of low look to book ratios.

The forum's site doesn't charge a booking fee, so you won't be paying any less by using TfW to book the same journeys on the forum site.

Unfortunately TOCs such as LNER and TfW have the advantage of taxpayers money to subsidise things like cashback. The forum's site doesn't have access to taxpayer cash to fund this.
As mentioned, only when the savings from splits cost is significant, cashback offer on TfW website, and I also had a period of a few months where the forum's website didn't work for me, which I reported in the dedicated thread about the forum's website.

I think the forum has to accept that sometimes people will just go with the cheapest option. I support the forum through some fares, including the share of savings. But when the share of savings is £30, that is a lot.

It is an industry problem which needs dealing with.
 

yorkie

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As mentioned, only when the savings from splits cost is significant, cashback offer on TfW website, and I also had a period of a few months where the forum's website didn't work for me, which I reported in the dedicated thread about the forum's website.

I think the forum has to accept that sometimes people will just go with the cheapest option. I support the forum through some fares, including the share of savings. But when the share of savings is £30, that is a lot.
Yes, but you can reduce the share of savings to £0 by adding each ticket to the basket on Trainsplit, exactly the same as with TfW or any other retailer. It's not fair to use one retailer to scrape and find, and book with a different one.
It is an industry problem which needs dealing with.
Rest assured, the industry is very keen to deal with the "problem" of people paying the lower price that people like you and me pay, by:
- increasing the cost of lower priced journeys
- abolishing all flexible fares, other than Anytime
- reducing the amount of NRS queries splitting sites can make

So by all means want the matter to be dealt with, but the ultimate aim is very much that you pay the higher price, not the lower price.

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Does the forum also benefit from commission from there?
The only site that benefits the forum is https://tickets.railforums.co.uk/

But there are other sites that use the same journey planner / underlying retailer, that will offer the same itineraries & fares.
 

styles

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Yes, but you can reduce the share of savings to £0 by adding each ticket to the basket on Trainsplit, exactly the same as with TfW or any other retailer. It's not fair to use one retailer to scrape and find, and book with a different one.
Yes, but as I mentioned, these are where the savings are significant. This usually means the combined fares (multi-passenger most often) are significant. If I'm booking train tickets for a group of say 10 people, for a charity, and the fares and the savings are in the dozens, or the hundreds, and I can get a cashback offer (10%) to donate back to the charity, that can be quite significant. The query on the forum site will cost pennies I assume (happy to be corrected).

Even if I'm booking just for myself, 10% cashback on a £100 fare is £10, which most people would probably say is non-trivial to their pocket. Combined with a credit card offer it can be higher.

I would book almost 100% with the forum website if the share of savings were capped.
Rest assured, the industry is very keen to deal with the "problem" of people paying the lower price that people like you and me pay, by:
- increasing the cost of lower priced journeys
- abolishing all flexible fares, other than Anytime
- reducing the amount of NRS queries splitting sites can make

So by all means want the matter to be dealt with, but the ultimate aim is very much that you pay the higher price, not the lower price.
Of course, we can discuss the ways in which the industry might shaft people with 'simpler fares', but I think that's for a different post really. I suspect we're on the same page about the ways the industry does try and coerce passengers into paying more through thinly-veiled covers of fixing the broken system.

For what it's worth, I suspect a non-trivial number of people use split ticket sites including the forum site, to determine splits, then book elsewhere for credit card or cashback offers, but won't say it on posts like this.
 

yorkie

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Yes, but as I mentioned, these are where the savings are significant. This usually means the combined fares (multi-passenger most often) are significant. If I'm booking train tickets for a group of say 10 people, for a charity, and the fares and the savings are in the dozens, or the hundreds, and I can get a cashback offer (10%) to donate back to the charity, that can be quite significant.
I still don't agree with it. If booking through TfW for the cashback, the research should be done on TfW, at their expense. It just isn't fair.
The query on the forum site will cost pennies I assume (happy to be corrected).
Yes, but it all adds up. There are too many people doing this and it could have consequences. Don't be surprised if, at some point, the results aren't as good as cutbacks are made on the number of NRS queries that can be made.
Even if I'm booking just for myself, 10% cashback on a £100 fare is £10, which most people would probably say is non-trivial to their pocket. Combined with a credit card offer it can be higher.

I would book almost 100% with the forum website if the share of savings were capped.
Sadly I have no say on the share of savings fees, but if people don't like it and aren't prepared to put each ticket in their basket on the Trainsplit site and instead book elsewhere, then they really need to be doing their research elsewhere too.

I have no problem with you booking through TfW, but I do ask that you use TfW for the research.
Of course, we can discuss the ways in which the industry might shaft people with 'simpler fares', but I think that's for a different post really.
It's intrinsically linked; the reason that split ticketing sites are cheaper is that shorter distance fares are often cheaper. The 'powers that be' want those fares to increase, to end split ticketing (of course, you can never really end it, but that is their belief!)
I suspect we're on the same page about the ways the industry does try and coerce passengers into paying more through thinly-veiled covers of fixing the broken system.

For what it's worth, I suspect a non-trivial number of people use split ticket sites including the forum site, to determine splits, then book elsewhere for credit card or cashback offers, but won't say it on posts like this.
Yes, and the actions of those people are responsible for Trainsplit to be leached and effectively subsidising other people, and also has the effect of encouraging RDG to make things worse for all of us, sadly (as RDG are keen on punishing retailers that make lots of NRS requests for few actual bookings; it is the retailers who get punished, not the individuals doing it, who get away with it, and profit from their TfW/LNER cashback :().
 

styles

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I still don't agree with it. If booking through TfW for the cashback, the research should be done on TfW, at their expense. It just isn't fair.

Yes, but it all adds up. There are too many people doing this and it could have consequences. Don't be surprised if, at some point, the results aren't as good as cutbacks are made on the number of NRS queries that can be made.

Sadly I have no say on the share of savings fees, but if people don't like it and aren't prepared to put each ticket in their basket on the Trainsplit site and instead book elsewhere, then they really need to be doing their research elsewhere too.

I have no problem with you booking through TfW, but I do ask that you use TfW for the research.
I'm sorry but I'm being honest, and saying what probably others are also doing about split ticketing websites.

Whether it supports the forum or not, the forum's split ticketing site is a business, and needs to be prepared for the business impact of consumer decisions.

People want cheap fares.

I pay the forum website commission on some fares, and at other times when I can save a hundred pounds, I book elsewhere. I am confident that the forum gains a net benefit from my use of the ticketing function.

I appreciate your passion for the forum's ticketing site, but it is at the end of the day a commercial enterprise and this is commercial reality.
It's intrinsically linked; the reason that split ticketing sites are cheaper is that shorter distance fares are often cheaper. The 'powers that be' want those fares to increase, to end split ticketing (of course, you can never really end it, but that is their belief!)

Yes, and the actions of those people are responsible for Trainsplit to be subsidising others, and also has the effect of encouraging RDG to make things worse for all of us, sadly (as RDG aren't keen on the idea of loads of NRS requests for few actual bookings).
Be that as it may, I am not sure I am so committed to the cause that I want to voluntarily add hundreds or maybe even thousands of pounds a year to it. I am sure you can appreciate that if the RailUK Forums hat is put aside.

As I mentioned a couple of times, if there was a cap on the share of savings, which I don't believe would harm commercial viability, I would switch more of my fare purchasing back.
 

CarrotPie

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There are too many people doing this and it could have consequences. Don't be surprised if, at some point, the results aren't as good as cutbacks are made on the number of NRS queries that can be made.
And if the results aren't as good, then fewer people will bother using the site.

The 'powers that be' want those fares to increase, to end split ticketing (of course, you can never really end it, but that is their belief!)
If a fare system can be and is created where split ticketing offers no saving over buying the "normal" ticket for a journey, then split ticketing will die out.

Yes, and the actions of those people are responsible for Trainsplit to be leached and effectively subsidising other people, and also has the effect of encouraging RDG to make things worse for all of us, sadly (as RDG are keen on punishing retailers that make lots of NRS requests for few actual bookings; it is the retailers who get punished, not the individuals doing it, who get away with it, and profit from their TfW/LNER cashback :().
Surely if any ticket retailer has lots of people researching on its site but not purchasing, it means that it needs to improve the purchasing "experience"/benefits, no?

I choose my research website based on speed, ease of use and UI, but I choose my purchasing sites based on more practical things like ticket format and so on. As @styles says, just like any other commercial entity, retailers have to offer what the consumer wants, because otherwise the consumer will go elsewhere. If Trainsplit offered the ability to change Advances like CrossCountry does, I would buy from them as well as doing my research there, but as it stands I can get a much better "purchase experience" elsewhere.

As a final note, I think most people have no idea that it costs retailers to make queries and that retailers get paid for tickets they sell. Most people just them as "railway tickets" sold by "the railway", especially when they all cost the exact same amount.
 

andy33gmail

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As a final note, I think most people have no idea that it costs retailers to make queries and that retailers get paid for tickets they sell. Most people just them as "railway tickets" sold by "the railway", especially when they all cost the exact same amount.
Or at least won't have a clue what the pricing structure might be. i.e. per query like AWS, cost per impression, cost per unique user, flat rate for the organisation, or something else.
 

Adam Williams

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As I mentioned a couple of times, if there was a cap on the share of savings, which I don't believe would harm commercial viability

For the avoidance of doubt, there is both a fixed cap and a ticket-price-linked cap (so the fee can't exceed some proportion of the ticket cost) - it has been this way for a number of years.

I suspect the complaint is more about the value at which the caps are set, than whether there is one at all, but I thought I'd mention it for completeness ;)
 
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