TfL anti fare evasion effort intensifies

[35B]

What's badly wrong is the idea that a US tech giant is deserving of control over the features of the British public transport sector. But then, you know that anyway.

No, what is wrong is that enforcement rests on an assumption about legitimate use that is demonstrably false.

 

[SECR263]

If BR and Tfl are so concerned about the amount of evasion, would it not be a good idea for BR and Tfl to fund a certain number of BT police full time to be available for backing up ticket Teams. This would enable a 7 day presence at say Waterloo ( or elsewhere) for 24 hrs 7 days this should act as a deterarant. Having watched the tv series on fare evasion its sad to see staff struggling without the correct back up. No doubt the powers to be will say we cannot afford this despite millions going astray.

 

[Wolfie]

I have my Apple wallet set to pay through my debit card, but my credit card linked to express pay. This suits how I manage my finances.

It is a basic part of the configuration of ApplePay, and any process that doesn’t consider it is defective.

Sorry but expenditure of public money solely to accommodate your banking preferences is unnecessary.

 

[35B]

Sorry but expenditure of public money solely to accommodate your banking preferences is unnecessary.

Cobblers. TfL already accept express mode, accusing customers of not paying because inspectors’ devices don’t identify the actual card used is wholly unreasonable and frankly insulting to honest customers.

That goes double as express mode works to TfL’s advantage by simplifying the flow through barriers by saving the need to activate the card.

 

[Sonic1234]

No doubt the powers to be will say we cannot afford this despite millions going astray.

It's probably cheaper to let "millions go astray". Zero fare evasion is impossible and uneconomic to achieve.

If anything, current revenue protection does not always make sense on economic grounds alone (it ends up being justified as a moral argument, a show for those who do pay the fare or a deterrent) and TOCs are happy with some evasion to reduce staff numbers. Would Thameslink prefer to fully staff its trains, or let a few people get away with an illicit railcard discount? Although if society is becoming less honest, it might change things.

 

[Starmill]

That goes double as express mode works to TfL’s advantage by simplifying the flow through barriers by saving the need to activate the card.

You've got this backwards. The restrictions applied to Apple Pay are the problem in the first place, and other ewallets do not work like that. "Express Mode" is a half-baked fix to a problem Apple created. So that they could sell more very highly priced phones. Perhaps some of the profits from that could go towards TfL's technology and data costs? Thought not...

 

[Peter Sarf]

I was on a bus a couple of years ago, (Arriva North West X30, rather than a TFL service), passenger got on, tried to blag a free ride claiming his mobile data wasn't working, driver wasn't having any of it, refused to allow him to board, the passenger then tried to plead with the driver to let him on, but driver refused, other passengers started getting agitated & told him to leave the bus, but constantly refused to do so, the police ended up being called out, so he left the bus, & the bus ended up leaving 30 minutes later, & according to another passenger, he'd been using the same scam it all week & getting a free ride, this time not so lucky.

My favourite cheek of it all recently was a girl of about 20 in front of me saying she could not pay. The driver stood his ground and said he would not move. I was behind and made sure I looked patient. The driver said if you can afford that phone and that food then you can afford to pay. Eventually she paid using her phone. So she was lying.

It's a design flaw in Apple Pay that arises from their attempt to sell more phones by presenting something as more private or more secure, when in reality it doesn't actually improve those things compared to the other ewallet technologies. Different aspects of Apple wallet's technology may well genuinely achieve that, but certainly not "express mode". It's no surprise TfL have overlooked it, given it only affects Apple users, and only a tiny minority of those, and there's little chance they would be willing to spend additional public money to correct it when there are so many pressing priorities for technology they are dealing with.

If you need the flexibility of using a different card for a different type of payment then I suspect you would already be well used to the competing ewallet applications regardless. For the vast majority of people though they would probably just find using a different card to be easier. Nearly everyone who carries a business card for certain purchases seems to manage it.

I would just get rid of the ability to pay using a mobile. It is a clumsy gimmick. The number of times I have been delayed by a mobile user trying to pay is significant enough make me avoid exploring that possibility. They seem to have to faff and get the phone to talk when the rest of us present a card to the reader as we walk past without any hesitation. It slows the bus down or causes a log jam at the ticket gates.

It's probably cheaper to let "millions go astray". Zero fare evasion is impossible and uneconomic to achieve.

If anything, current revenue protection does not always make sense on economic grounds alone (it ends up being justified as a moral argument, a show for those who do pay the fare or a deterrent) and TOCs are happy with some evasion to reduce staff numbers. Would Thameslink prefer to fully staff its trains, or let a few people get away with an illicit railcard discount? Although if society is becoming less honest, it might change things.

I accept that policing fare evasion might not save as much money as it costs BUT it sends a message to people who are paying that the public transport system is safe and that they were justified in paying. It also discourages the sort of people we frankly do not want on public transport - they are often anti-social and that is their choice.

I have been on quite a few bus journeys where it was obvious the majority of passengers were not paying - as in not showing a card of any type etc. Many young people just shrug their shoulders and walk sheepishly past the driver.

 

[Starmill]

I would just get rid of the ability to pay using a mobile. It is a clumsy gimmick. The number of times I have been delayed by a mobile user trying to pay is significant enough make me avoid exploring that possibility. They seem to have to faff and get the phone to talk when the rest of us present a card to the reader as we walk past without any hesitation. It slows the bus down or causes a log jam at the ticket gates.

It doesn't have to be that way, I've never had to activate or unlock mine and never hesitate at a ticket gate, platform validator or bus reader when boarding. But, if you have an Apple device, and you don't realise how it works, then you're absolutely right, you probably will end up doing as you say.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Feb 2026 ==

I accept that policing fare evasion might not save as much money as it costs BUT it sends a message to people who are paying that the public transport system is safe and that they were justified in paying. It also discourages the sort of people we frankly do not want on public transport - they are often anti-social and that is their choice.

It's probably something where you can be satisfied with 99% conformity - a lot of things in life aren't 100%, but as long as they're "three nines" or more it's fine. In this case "two nines" is likely adequate.

 

[Peter Sarf]

It doesn't have to be that way, I've never had to activate or unlock mine and never hesitate at a ticket gate, platform validator or bus reader when boarding. But, if you have an Apple device, and you don't realise how it works, then you're absolutely right, you probably will end up doing as you say.

Your probably right. Quite possibly user understanding and not forgetting there are also those who stand in front of a gate fumbling for their paper ticket.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Feb 2026 ==


It's probably something where you can be satisfied with 99% conformity - a lot of things in life aren't 100%, but as long as they're "three nines" or more it's fine. In this case "two nines" is likely adequate.

Yes. It has has to be fairly watertight but as you say not worth chasing the last little bit. It the moment it sometimes feels like fare evasion is turning into a free for all. It feels like more and more people who can pay do not expect to have to pay.

 

[35B]

You've got this backwards. The restrictions applied to Apple Pay are the problem in the first place, and other ewallets do not work like that. "Express Mode" is a half-baked fix to a problem Apple created. So that they could sell more very highly priced phones. Perhaps some of the profits from that could go towards TfL's technology and data costs? Thought not...

I use an iPhone for many reasons - the payment mechanism is irrelevant beyond the fact that it exists. The express mode feature is there, including the ability to select which card it uses, and as a layman I neither know nor care about the underlying architecture. While Apple meets my needs, I'm also unlikely to move back in future.

My view is very simple. If an operator takes payment by a particular means, it is for the operator to ensure that I am not falsely accused of travelling without paying. A method of inspection cards that cannot accommodate a payment method that the operator has agreed to take, and advertises that it does take, is unacceptably deficient. That is equally true whether it is Apple's implementation of Express Mode, or a failure to print a ticket at a machine. It is fundamentally unacceptable to accuse someone on not paying without evidence to support the accusation, and the inability of inspectors' card readers to identify a normal use case is a long way short of evidence.

It doesn't have to be that way, I've never had to activate or unlock mine and never hesitate at a ticket gate, platform validator or bus reader when boarding. But, if you have an Apple device, and you don't realise how it works, then you're absolutely right, you probably will end up doing as you say.

I did do this before I discovered the express mode on mine, coincidentally about the time that Apple moved towards facial recognition and away from the thumb lock. But there are many features on my devices that I do not understand well - it's on me to identify how they work. And watching people at barriers, I get no sense that the issues of user familiarity are particularly focused on any OS or manufacturer.

I would just get rid of the ability to pay using a mobile. It is a clumsy gimmick. The number of times I have been delayed by a mobile user trying to pay is significant enough make me avoid exploring that possibility. They seem to have to faff and get the phone to talk when the rest of us present a card to the reader as we walk past without any hesitation. It slows the bus down or causes a log jam at the ticket gates.

You've obviously never been around as people have fiddled around finding the right card, or trying to deal with a failed magstrip on their ticket. Like @Starmill, I never usually need to break step with a card payment on my phone; scanning a ticket depends a lot on the state of the barrier.

 

[Hadders]

I would just get rid of the ability to pay using a mobile. It is a clumsy gimmick. The number of times I have been delayed by a mobile user trying to pay is significant enough make me avoid exploring that possibility. They seem to have to faff and get the phone to talk when the rest of us present a card to the reader as we walk past without any hesitation. It slows the bus down or causes a log jam at the ticket gates.

Getting rid of mobile payments isn’t going to happen, nor should it. Just stand at the checkout area of a supermarket to see how popular it’s become.

It is frustrating when people who faff for their phone slow down the boarding or gateline experience. This isn’t just related to people using mobiles. I’ve lost count of the people who get to a ticket gate line then look for their ticket, holding up the queue or a person faffing for their bus pass when their at the front of the queue.

‘Us’ on here know the drill and whatever payment method is used will always be prepared. Unfortunately the same cannot always be said for the public at large, but to say it’s fully related to people using mobiles is wide of the mark.

 

[Peter Sarf]

......................

You've obviously never been around as people have fiddled around finding the right card, or trying to deal with a failed magstrip on their ticket. Like @Starmill, I never usually need to break step with a card payment on my phone; scanning a ticket depends a lot on the state of the barrier.

In my experience it is quite rare to see people struggling with a non mobile payment method. The worst I see with non-mobile is when arriving at Victoria on my journeys from Croydon - I assume mainly inexperienced tourists possibly not expecting a barrier.

 

[35B]

In my experience it is quite rare to see people struggling with a non mobile payment method. The worst I see with non-mobile is when arriving at Victoria on my journeys from Croydon - I assume mainly inexperienced tourists possibly not expecting a barrier.

I suspect that may now have to do with the relative numbers of people using different methods. Plenty of people struggle with various methods, but I strongly suspect a degree of perception bias is at work - I know that if I think I notice a particular thing, I tend to be conscious of seeing it a lot more.

 

[Starmill]

I use an iPhone for many reasons - the payment mechanism is irrelevant beyond the fact that it exists. The express mode feature is there, including the ability to select which card it uses, and as a layman I neither know nor care about the underlying architecture. While Apple meets my needs, I'm also unlikely to move back in future.

My view is very simple. If an operator takes payment by a particular means, it is for the operator to ensure that I am not falsely accused of travelling without paying. A method of inspection cards that cannot accommodate a payment method that the operator has agreed to take, and advertises that it does take, is unacceptably deficient. That is equally true whether it is Apple's implementation of Express Mode, or a failure to print a ticket at a machine. It is fundamentally unacceptable to accuse someone on not paying without evidence to support the accusation, and the inability of inspectors' card readers to identify a normal use case is a long way short of evidence.

I did do this before I discovered the express mode on mine, coincidentally about the time that Apple moved towards facial recognition and away from the thumb lock. But there are many features on my devices that I do not understand well - it's on me to identify how they work. And watching people at barriers, I get no sense that the issues of user familiarity are particularly focused on any OS or manufacturer.

You've obviously never been around as people have fiddled around finding the right card, or trying to deal with a failed magstrip on their ticket. Like @Starmill, I never usually need to break step with a card payment on my phone; scanning a ticket depends a lot on the state of the barrier.

The fact that you think your opinion counts (equally) even though you don't actually understand the basics of what's happening is exactly what I have repeatedly taken issue with.

I have tried to explain nicely many times but won't keep repeating myself. If you select a different card than for your general default to tap in with, including via "Express Mode" you should ensure that you are presenting that card during an inspection. This has been made clear to you now, so you can act accordingly. If you don't, that's your free choice, and you're perfectly entitled to just as you're entitled to refuse to present the card you touched in with whatsoever. However in that case you will be the only one who faces the relevant consequences of that. If someone were to accidentally present the wrong card, but then immediately correct their error, I would expect that to be dealt with professionally by the inspectors. Unfortunately many aren't professional regardless of what you do or do not do, but that isn't related to the ability to use CPAY, that's a separate problem. Where this is not the case a complaint needs to be made to customer service and they may at their discretion refund an overpayment. As noted above they are actually very good at doing this, rather better than a customer service department usually is on the railway.

Anything is possible, but it is rather unlikely that this position will be changing any time soon. No allegations against TfL's technology are going to change the fact that you're trying to use it to do something which it wasn't intended for.

 

[saismee]

My biggest gripe with phone payments is that people will pull the "my phone is dead" followed by the "I left my card at home" and then their details are "John Smith at 10 Downing Street". BTP response is "we will not be attending". Brilliant.

 

[Kite159]

My biggest gripe with phone payments is that people will pull the "my phone is dead" followed by the "I left my card at home" and then their details are "John Smith at 10 Downing Street". BTP response is "we will not be attending". Brilliant.

Even without phone payments people will still come up with excuses at why they haven't got a ticket, especially if you offer then a charger cable & powerbank.

 

[Krokodil]

Even without phone payments people will still come up with excuses at why they haven't got a ticket, especially if you offer then a charger cable & powerbank.

It is always funny to produce the cable when they claim "dead battery" and magically it has 40% within ten seconds of being plugged in. Aren't these newfangled chargers amazing...

 

[35B]

The fact that you think your opinion counts (equally) even though you don't actually understand the basics of what's happening is exactly what I have repeatedly taken issue with.

I have tried to explain nicely many times but won't keep repeating myself. If you select a different card than for your general default to tap in with, including via "Express Mode" you should ensure that you are presenting that card during an inspection. This has been made clear to you now, so you can act accordingly. If you don't, that's your free choice, and you're perfectly entitled to just as you're entitled to refuse to present the card you touched in with whatsoever. However in that case you will be the only one who faces the relevant consequences of that. If someone were to accidentally present the wrong card, but then immediately correct their error, I would expect that to be dealt with professionally by the inspectors. Unfortunately many aren't professional regardless of what you do or do not do, but that isn't related to the ability to use CPAY, that's a separate problem. Where this is not the case a complaint needs to be made to customer service and they may at their discretion refund an overpayment. As noted above they are actually very good at doing this, rather better than a customer service department usually is on the railway.

Anything is possible, but it is rather unlikely that this position will be changing any time soon. No allegations against TfL's technology are going to change the fact that you're trying to use it to do something which it wasn't intended for.

It had not been made clear to me, but thank you for clarifying the point - I firmly believe there is a dual onus on passenger and operator here.

My concern remains that, if I present my phone as used at the point of entry, and the inspector's reader does not recognise the express mode because of how the reader is set, a false accusation may be made against me. If dealt with professionally ("do you have another card on your phone?", for example), then all is well. If on the other hand, the encounter moves towards an accusation, then I stand by my view that the issue is very firmly with TfL - it was their choice to use the technology, and agree with Apple that they would enable it. As with any consumer facing encounter, that requires them to manage the situation professionally.

Although no technologist, I work in the IT industry and see at first hand the issues caused by incompatibilities (do not start me on the joys of 3DS2). That experience, along with operating commercial contracts that are very explicit that the supplier is accountable for the acts and omissions of their subcontractors, informs my view of what I regard as a minimum standard from TfL or any other provider.

 

[Starmill]

It had not been made clear to me, but thank you for clarifying the point - I firmly believe there is a dual onus on passenger and operator here.

My concern remains that, if I present my phone as used at the point of entry, and the inspector's reader does not recognise the express mode because of how the reader is set, a false accusation may be made against me. If dealt with professionally ("do you have another card on your phone?", for example), then all is well. If on the other hand, the encounter moves towards an accusation, then I stand by my view that the issue is very firmly with TfL - it was their choice to use the technology, and agree with Apple that they would enable it. As with any consumer facing encounter, that requires them to manage the situation professionally.

Although no technologist, I work in the IT industry and see at first hand the issues caused by incompatibilities (do not start me on the joys of 3DS2). That experience, along with operating commercial contracts that are very explicit that the supplier is accountable for the acts and omissions of their subcontractors, informs my view of what I regard as a minimum standard from TfL or any other provider.

I agree that the process could certainly be more user friendly. I also agree that relying on customer service issuing refunds, especially when they sometimes come with the "gesture of goodwill" or "ex-gratia payment" label, isn't a good idea regardless of the fact that TfL customer service are generally able to resolve problems quickly and to the satisfaction of the customer. Unfortunately that's true of a great many things about TfL services. I have had a great deal of bother with them over applying railcards correctly in the past for example. This seems to be improving.

 

[andy33gmail]

I would just get rid of the ability to pay using a mobile. It is a clumsy gimmick. The number of times I have been delayed by a mobile user trying to pay is significant enough make me avoid exploring that possibility. They seem to have to faff and get the phone to talk when the rest of us present a card to the reader as we walk past without any hesitation. It slows the bus down or causes a log jam at the ticket gates.

I don't routinely carry legacy payment methods like plastic cards or cash, as neither are really needed anywhere except tax-free barbers and car washes

It is frustrating when people who faff for their phone slow down the boarding or gateline experience. This isn’t just related to people using mobiles. I’ve lost count of the people who get to a ticket gate line then look for their ticket, holding up the queue or a person faffing for their bus pass when their at the front of the queue.

‘Us’ on here know the drill and whatever payment method is used will always be prepared. Unfortunately the same cannot always be said for the public at large, but to say it’s fully related to people using mobiles is wide of the mark.

True, although I've had express mode randomly not work (so had to unlock & pick a card), and QR scanners can be funny at times, depending on light, brightness and whether anyone's bothered to clean the scanner in the last decade

In my experience it is quite rare to see people struggling with a non mobile payment method. The worst I see with non-mobile is when arriving at Victoria on my journeys from Croydon - I assume mainly inexperienced tourists possibly not expecting a barrier.

Paper tickets from Littleport station almost never scan

 

[Hadders]

I don't routinely carry legacy payment methods like plastic cards or cash, as neither are really needed anywhere except tax-free barbers and car washes

It's unwise to carry only one payment method as it can become a single point of failure in the event of an issue.

I normally carry at least one bank card in addition to my phone and I usually have a £10 or £20 bank note with me as well.

 

[andy33gmail]

It's unwise to carry only one payment method as it can become a single point of failure in the event of an issue.

To be fair, if I'm in London I have a laptop and 2 extra phones with me, so I'd find a way to get at a ticket with a QR code for a train. And I've got about a million different bank accounts.

 

[saismee]

I normally carry at least one bank card in addition to my phone and I usually have a £10 or £20 bank note with me as well.

+1. Started doing this after my phone died with my card and e-ticket! Thankfully my friend bought me a ticket.

 

[Starmill]

I don't routinely carry legacy payment methods like plastic cards or cash, as neither are really needed anywhere except tax-free barbers and car washes

You don't think? Hotels are always asking me to use the Pin. And that's just the first example that came to mind.

 

[Kite159]

It is always funny to produce the cable when they claim "dead battery" and magically it has 40% within ten seconds of being plugged in. Aren't these newfangled chargers amazing...

Or they claim it's dead, only to magically come back into life when you pass by later.

 

[MikeWh]

Re Apple Express Pay:

My Android phone using Google Wallet also has a transport feature. This allows the setting of a default card and the ability to not worry about finger/face recognition, or even that the screen is on. This I find very useful as it largely avoids annoying people behind me when my fingerprint doesn't work first time. I don't want to allow normal purchases to be charged without confirming it's me. I don't set a different card, but I can see when someone might want to.

I think the problem almost certainly is that the RIDs are not announcing themselves as a transport mode device. That is definitely not a good look.

 

[andy33gmail]

Or they claim it's dead, only to magically come back into life when you pass by later.

Offering a charger would be a good measure, both from a customer service perspective & revenue evasion perspective. Even if there was only one, you had to queue, and it was only 5W / QI.

 

[Sonic1234]

It also discourages the sort of people we frankly do not want on public transport - they are often anti-social and that is their choice.

These are the hardest people to deal with. Without a heavy (and expensive) police presence, often you can't do anything. Even with that, you're probably just getting some false details. Hence you've got the railway throwing the book at people who let their railcard expire by a day or two, and others not paying sometimes with the blessing of rail staff (to avoid conflict).

The system is reliant on that most people will do the right thing, and more cynically that very few can make the behavioural change from meek middle class commuter to thug. If fare evasion on Croydon Trams is only 7%, society is still very honest (or TfL believe their own hype).

 

[bramling]

These are the hardest people to deal with. Without a heavy (and expensive) police presence, often you can't do anything. Even with that, you're probably just getting some false details. Hence you've got the railway throwing the book at people who let their railcard expire by a day or two, and others not paying sometimes with the blessing of rail staff (to avoid conflict).

The system is reliant on that most people will do the right thing, and more cynically that very few can make the behavioural change from meek middle class commuter to thug. If fare evasion on Croydon Trams is only 7%, society is still very honest (or TfL believe their own hype).

On the latter point, I’m not so sure. To me 7% is a pretty high figure.

 

[Sonic1234]

On the latter point, I’m not so sure. To me 7% is a pretty high figure.

It's a completely ungated unstaffed (except the driver) system, and a lot of short trips. Inspections do occur but there is a very high chance of getting away with it, particularly outside of business hours.

The muscle memory of tapping in is definitely a thing which reduces evasion.