What would you do to improve the London Underground?

[CarrotPie]

Make the Waterloo & City battery and driverless

Why battery? It already has 4th rail installed...

 

[CMS1]

Why battery? It already has 4th rail installed..

Sorts the safety issues with driverless tube in event of failure between stations. Just have Greenford style rapid chargers at either end (only activate when train 'connected').

 

[CarrotPie]

Sorts the safety issues with driverless tube in event of failure between stations.

Does it? 4th rail can be isolated remotely, and you still have the issue of getting several hundred people out the front/back door and walking a kilometre along the track. The Paris Métro already uses UTO (Unattended Train Operation) with third rail, but passengers can evacuate via the side doors and down a twin-track tunnel.

Incidentally, are there any services in the world that use UTO in single-track Tube-style tunnels without evacuation walkways?

Just have Greenford style rapid chargers at either end (only activate when train 'connected').

Where would you put the huge battery banks for the chargers? Actually, where would you put the batteries on the train? The 2024TS is already missing loads of bogies to fit the aircon in, so I doubt you'd be able to fit big enough batteries and aircon on the same Tube train if you want more than 2 wheels on it.

 

[alex397]

If TfL were given a limitless supply of money, I’d speed up putting step free access into as many stations as possible.
My worsening disability means I now tend to avoid stations where I have to use steps, which is quite a lot of stations to avoid. I can just about do steps, but it can sometimes be a struggle, especially when you have all the miserable impatient Londoners trying to get past you.
I’d prioritise the sub-surface lines, which in some cases have stations with just a short flight of stairs that make things difficult for myself and others.
In my experience, London isn’t the easiest city to get around for people with disabilities compared to some others I’ve been to. The buses are far more accessible but they are rather rubbish, due to the intolerable congestion. So I tend to stick to areas along the Thameslink, Elizabeth Line and DLR routes.

I don’t blame TfL for this. They of course have a legacy of very old stations. It’s great that all new stations have been fully accessible, and their online publicity for disabled people is generally superb.

 

[jamesst]

Get the customer information screens on the platforms to work properly. The amount of times they display incorrect (or no) information compared to national rail is always very noticeable to me.

 

[Dstock7080]

Actually, where would you put the batteries on the train? The 2024TS is already missing loads of bogies to fit the aircon in, so I doubt you'd be able to fit big enough batteries and aircon on the same Tube train if you want more than 2 wheels on it.

2024TS already has traction capable batteries on board, to move short distances.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

If TfL were given a limitless supply of money, I’d speed up putting step free access into as many stations as possible.
My worsening disability means I now tend to avoid stations where I have to use steps, which is quite a lot of stations to avoid. I can just about do steps, but it can sometimes be a struggle, especially when you have all the miserable impatient Londoners trying to get past you.
I’d prioritise the sub-surface lines, which in some cases have stations with just a short flight of stairs that make things difficult for myself and others.
In my experience, London isn’t the easiest city to get around for people with disabilities compared to some others I’ve been to. The buses are far more accessible but they are rather rubbish, due to the intolerable congestion. So I tend to stick to areas along the Thameslink, Elizabeth Line and DLR routes.

I don’t blame TfL for this. They of course have a legacy of very old stations. It’s great that all new stations have been fully accessible, and their online publicity for disabled people is generally superb.

Bit in bold You can blame TfL for much of the road congestion.

I'm sorry about your disability. Having a quite different disability myself - many thanks NHS - I too have noticed how most people are oblivious to other people's difficulties.

 

[Mojo]

l'd like to see some new platforms built, or at least some 'paid side' connection walkways built such as the one at Hackney Wick/Central, to facilitate better journeys avoiding central London.

Examples of such:

• Where the Central and Met lines cross near West Ruislip
• Where the Central and Picc lines cross near Hanger Lane / Park Royal
• Where the Central line, Elizabeth line and North London line meet near North Acton / Old Oak Common [l believe HS2 were supposed to be funding an OSI through their current construction site, not sure what's going on with this but it'll still be a fairly long walk]
• at West Hampstead for the Met line
• Where the Central line and Goblin cross in Leytonstone
• Where the Northern line and MML cross in Hendon

 

[Bevan Price]

Move Parliament, Treasury and other big Government departments out of London - hopefully encouraging more private companies that they don't need a HQ in London. Hopefully that would reduce the number of LU passengers to more manageable levels.

 

[Instinct04]

l'd like to see some new platforms built, or at least some 'paid side' connection walkways built such as the one at Hackney Wick/Central, to facilitate better journeys avoiding central London.

Examples of such:

• Where the Central and Met lines cross near West Ruislip
• Where the Central and Picc lines cross near Hanger Lane / Park Royal
• Where the Central line, Elizabeth line and North London line meet near North Acton / Old Oak Common [l believe HS2 were supposed to be funding an OSI through their current construction site, not sure what's going on with this but it'll still be a fairly long walk]
• at West Hampstead for the Met line
• Where the Central line and Goblin cross in Leytonstone
• Where the Northern line and MML cross in Hendon

I’d really like to put a walkway in where the Goblin and Southbury Loop Lines cross at Seven Sisters too, as well as extending the Victoria Line to somewhere like Woodford in the east, or Edmonton Green in the north.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

I’d really like to put a walkway in where the Goblin and Southbury Loop Lines cross at Seven Sisters too, as well as extending the Victoria Line to somewhere like Woodford in the east, or Edmonton Green in the north.

The obvious place to extend it to is Leytonstone, as has been suggested many times before. The distance between Walthamstow Central and Leytonstone Station is about two miles as the crow flies, 2.2 miles by the shortest road road route.

 

[Farang]

Fewer strikes.

 

[fandroid]

Step free access. Starting with all interchange stations and all stations on and within the old Circle Line.

Get rid of all the unreadable maps on trains that pretend to cover "Central London" and replace them with readable maps of the true central area. Maintain the linear maps on trains that cover the line that the train is actually on.
More maps at stations, including on platforms, of the whole zones 1-6 area.

Improve disruption announcements. Get rid of the cover-all - "severe delays". State the current frequency of trains on the line affected. That's what we need to know to in order to plan our journey.

All gates serving mainline interchanges with TfL lines to have Aztec ticket readers. Railcard discounts on journeys using contactless bank cards


Plus a few crayonista dreams:
build a Blackfriars station on the Waterloo and City.
Extend the Piccadilly Line from Terminal 5 to Uxbridge via West Drayton.
Extend the Victoria Line from Walthamstow to Stratford, or the Jubilee in the opposite direction.
Build a station at Hammersmith Hospital/Imperial College on the Central Line, maybe closing East Acton if that's needed to maintain the service

 

[MarkyT]

Sorts the safety issues with driverless tube in event of failure between stations. Just have Greenford style rapid chargers at either end (only activate when train 'connected').

The 4-rail system retained but with some battery capability on the trains would be a good solution. Specialist lithium-ion cells with titanate anodes (LTO) are likely considered safe enough now for underground use, as they don't develop the dendrites that often cause cell failures and resultant short circuits in simpler cells. While LTO tech isn't as energy-dense as other lithium cells, in this limited short-range emergency/booster role, that's not a major issue, and other benefits more than outweigh.

LUs 2024 stock supposedly incorporates sufficient battery capacity to make it to the next stop or stand for a considerable period with lighting and climate control on after an unexpected isolation between stations. Siemens publicity claims lithium-ion batteries are used for this. I don't know if they are the LTO variant, but Siemens have, more recently, announced their new Desiro Verve BEMUs will have LTO for the superior charge cycle life, the speed of charge and discharge and the safety characteristics of the technology. On the W&C, a small battery could easily cover a complete round trip.

Battery could also allow simplification of conductor rail infrastructure around junctions, as the battery could cover larger gaps. That's a particular issue on LU as traditionally every powered car was electrically self-contained with its own pickup shoes and no traction power connection to neighbouring vehicles. Engineers went to great lengths to minimise gapping through junctions using many small pieces of rail and interconnecting cables. That's all complex kit to maintain and represents difficulty, including being a tripping hazard, for workers in the tunnels. I'd not remove conductor from the plain line running tunnels elsewhere however, though that might be an option for the future, perhaps for some particularly damp or otherwise troublesome sections, once all trains on the particular line have sufficient battery capability, of course.

 

[alf]

Make every underground line UTO, unattended operation after fitting platform doors.
But for evacuation keep drivers on the Northern from East Finchley & Golders Green to Morden; On the Central from White City to Stratford; On the Bakerloo from Queens Park to Elephant & Castle once new trains arrive on the Pic between Barons Ct & Leytonstone. On the Jubilee between Finchley Road & Westminster.

On the longest underground interchange passageways put in one person-width travelators, ie Charing Cross. Instal new short escalators on the busiest stair tunnels, Old Street is one example. Put escalators from Victoria line platforms to the island & Stratford bound platforms at Highbury & Islighton. Carry out the (admittedly expensive)plans for making the Vic line trains fully UTO , proposed when the second generation stock was introduced.
The above plans would remove 1,900 drivers from the payroll who would solve the problem of the many GBR drivers due to retire in the next 8 years in the south east.

The above plan would save £180,000,000 a year.
The annual running cost is £8,000,000,000 currently.
The driver savings in one year would pay for all the proposals above

 

[Farnborough]

Basically any possible improvements to the Underground to make it better, more frequent, more reliable, and just better!

More escalators, add travellators especially at the longer interchanges (Bank, Farringdon, Bond Street, etc)

 

[bramling]

Make every underground line UTO, unattended operation after fitting platform doors.
But for evacuation keep drivers on the Northern from East Finchley & Golders Green to Morden; On the Central from White City to Stratford; On the Bakerloo from Queens Park to Elephant & Castle once new trains arrive on the Pic between Barons Ct & Leytonstone. On the Jubilee between Finchley Road & Westminster.

On the longest underground interchange passageways put in one person-width travelators, ie Charing Cross. Instal new short escalators on the busiest stair tunnels, Old Street is one example. Put escalators from Victoria line platforms to the island & Stratford bound platforms at Highbury & Islighton. Carry out the (admittedly expensive)plans for making the Vic line trains fully UTO , proposed when the second generation stock was introduced.
The above plans would remove 1,900 drivers from the payroll who would solve the problem of the many GBR drivers due to retire in the next 8 years in the south east.

This massively underestimates the cost of converting the system to any form of unattended operation. None of the current signalling systems and rolling stock are set up for this, and the cost and complexity of making them so is immense. ATO has existed in London for over 50 years and even this is a long way from being able to cope with everything, let alone with no staff on board at all.

 

[Metrider]

How about this: where the Bakerloo and Lioness lines run between Queen's Park and Harrow & Wealdstone, both lines currently stop at every stop. Why not have one of the lines be a "fast" line that only stops at the big interchanges?

For example, since the Lioness carries on to Watford, maybe that could be the "express" service to cut journey times for people going to/from Euston? If you needed the stations in between, you could just change for the Bakerloo at e.g. Queen's Park, Willesden Junction, Kenton or Harrow & Wealdstone?

It would be a bit like the Metropolitan and Jubilee between Wembley Park and Finchley Road!

 

[The exile]

How about this: where the Bakerloo and Lioness lines run between Queen's Park and Harrow & Wealdstone, both lines currently stop at every stop. Why not have one of the lines be a "fast" line that only stops at the big interchanges?

For example, since the Lioness carries on to Watford, maybe that could be the "express" service to cut journey times for people going to/from Euston? If you needed the stations in between, you could just change for the Bakerloo at e.g. Queen's Park, Willesden Junction, Kenton or Harrow & Wealdstone?

It would be a bit like the Metropolitan and Jubilee between Wembley Park and Finchley Road!

That of course cuts line capacity unless you’re proposing that the “fasts” aren’t actually faster - they just have fewer stops. Or are you proposing adding an extra pair of tracks? (How?)

 

[Metrider]

That of course cuts line capacity unless you’re proposing that the “fasts” aren’t actually faster - they just have fewer stops. Or are you proposing adding an extra pair of tracks? (How?)

I thought it was already four-tracked in that section. Happy to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable though.

 

[z444z]

I thought it was already four-tracked in that section. Happy to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable though.

The lines the Lioness runs on and shares with the Bakerloo between Queen’s Park and Harrow & Wealdstone, the Watford DCs as they’re known, are 2 track throughout. They run alongside the many more tracks of the West Coast Mainline for much of their length though.

 

[The exile]

I thought it was already four-tracked in that section. Happy to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable though.

The DC lines (the ones in question) are twin track.

 

[Metrider]

The DC lines (the ones in question) are twin track.

The lines the Lioness runs on and shares with the Bakerloo between Queen’s Park and Harrow & Wealdstone, the Watford DCs as they’re known, are 2 track throughout. They run alongside the many more tracks of the West Coast Mainline for much of their length though.

Ah, I see, thanks for the info. I was just going by an amateur look on Google maps and seeing that there are lots of tracks in that area, but I guess they're not available to run a service like I'm suggesting.

 

[PartyOperator]

There are already fast trains on the adjacent WCML (usually stop at Harrow and Wealdstone). Perhaps trains can stop at more stations once HS2 opens.

 

[The exile]

Ah, I see, thanks for the info. I was just going by an amateur look on Google maps and seeing that there are lots of tracks in that area, but I guess they're not available to run a service like I'm suggesting.

Not without spending enormous sums of money and / or getting in the way of other trains on the West Coast Main Line proper.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How about this: where the Bakerloo and Lioness lines run between Queen's Park and Harrow & Wealdstone, both lines currently stop at every stop. Why not have one of the lines be a "fast" line that only stops at the big interchanges?

Because there is already a service that does that on the adjacent AC lines, in the form of West Midlands Trains, who call at Harrow and Bushey, the two main interchanges on the line.

 

[brad465]

Extend the Victoria line down the Herne Hill branch of the Chatham mainline to Bromley South, running in parallel underneath serving all the existing stations. I'd then close all their mainline equivalents, with the exception of Shortlands, Beckenham Jct and Herne Hill, where interchanges exist (and may exist further if the Bakerloo line is extended). This route can then have a much enhanced frequency into Victoria, while mainline capacity is freed up for more mainline fasts/semi-fasts.

 

[cle]

On the Bakerloo/DC line - I could see in future that the WCML slows become much more of a stopping line, to Tring - once HS2 opens and the WCML fasts see most trains call at Watford, MKC and Rugby. And many more at Leighton Buzzard, Bletchley (by then a thriving interchange).

That same speculative and optimistic future might see a new Bakerloo (new trains, extended to Hayes, many more TPH) - which could see services call at Queens Park again (a very busy station) - possibly Willesden Junction (I would not do fast line platforms though) - and more at Wembley Central with works to enable it to be open and safe all day without manual access.

On those lines, it would go something like:
2tph Clapham Junction - Watford Junction
6tph Euston - Tring (skip patterns south of Watford Junction - but each pattern to include 2-3 of QP, WiJ, WC, H&W, Bushey)
2tph Euston - Bletchley/MKC (Harrow, Watford, all stations)

(Hemel and Berko removed from outer services to Northampton/Brum and to go more metro in nature)

 

[BrianW]

I thought it was already four-tracked in that section. Happy to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable though.

Perhaps someone referencing themselves as Metrider, located in Pinner, might get out a little more, maybe to Hatch End or Headstone Lane and gain greater familiarity as a Bakerloorider, or DCrider ...
Keep posting; every day a learning day. BW

 

[Recessio]

I thought it was already four-tracked in that section. Happy to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable though.

Nope it's twin track unfortunately. That's also the reason the platforms have to be compromise height (step up into Lioness trains, step down into Bakerloo trains), which pretty much permanently prevents step-free access on any of those stations unless either service is re-routed or curtailed.