Class 175s to GWR

[43096]

I don't know the details so can't comment on that. Major compoent changes and engine changes was mentioned in the interview linked further back in the topic.

None of which should be a surprise to GWR - the maintenance position is known for all vehicles - unless they didn't ask the right questions?

 

[Snow1964]

A lot of it is exam miles. By the time they get to GWR, they are not far off major exams. So as long as they are still within the mileage by the time they get to Laira and accepted, it's GWRs responsibility to carry out the exams (unless there is an arragement with Angel of course to fund exams)

Which is quite possible that LeaseCo has to pay for any exams that are due.

Would normally expect normal maintenance intervals, counting from zero, not commencing at virtually the first maintenance due point.

They are of course on commercial terms, not consumer or retail terms where satisfactory quality is assumed, otherwise can be returned, or fixed at no cost to consumer.

 

[Brush 4]

It was clearer and more efficient in the days of a co-ordinated railway, with everything in-house. No arguments about who was responsible for what. Stored Serviceable or Stored Unserviceable as it was known then. Into works, back into service. Job done.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I can understand all the multiple problems outlined on this thread, but just with staff training, given that 175's have been shuttling back and forward between Plymouth and N Abbot/Exeter off and on (including stopping, opening/close doors etc at places like Totnes) since last September (5 months ago), how come so few staff have apparently been trained? Thanks if anyone could explain.

I don't know the answer to this but how many 175 movements over the laast five months have actually been crew training rather than "manager" training in terms of drivers and guards inspectors.

Unfortunately, it all comes back to the bespoke English national railway setup where the whole thing is absolutely controlled by Whitehall, even though thw vast majority of rolling stock is privately owned. We saw how long it took for TP01 to be handed back to the Rosco

Would agree that is the case, however GWR should only be taking the units on lease once they are happy all is correct so Angel will only get paid when that happens and they will be paying Wolverton, or contractors, for the extra work. As such Angel maybe taking some financial hit but in turn they may have/had claims against TfW/CAF/Alstom too, all depends on the contracts which we will not get to know about.

Let us put it this way. If you were taking delivery of a bunch of trains from a leaseco, operated by one previous user, would you expect them to be brought to your depot on the back of a tow truck, without any brakes working ?
I certainly wouldn't. I would expect to put an experienced person to work brandishing keys and a clipboard or tablet and check each one over. Maybe Laira staff are doing that, and perhaps with the exam'ed ones being driven from Wolverton it might be happening but this is 2026 and we should not be hauling unbraked passenger trains around.

 

[XFeed]

A lot of it is exam miles. By the time they get to GWR, they are not far off major exams. So as long as they are still within the mileage by the time they get to Laira and accepted, it's GWRs responsibility to carry out the exams (unless there is an arragement with Angel of course to fund exams)

At Chester 175 routine service exams were carried out using a balanced A exam system compiling of 24 exams on a rotating basis at 15000 mile intervals with an additional 500 miles emergency mileage if TfW could not return the unit within the 15000 miles, once the extra 500 miles was exceeded it was a dead duck.
Engine raft overhauls were measured in engine hours and for the life of me I cant remember the figure right now. Other major component overhauls such as, final drives, carden shafts, bogies and brake station equipment were mileage based. Cooler group overhauls were at 5 year intervals with an intermediate overhaul carried out within the depot at 2.5 years.

 

[REVUpminster]

175002 operating 2C49 today.

 

[Harpo]

The whole cascade has been hopelessly badly planned.

What cascade plan? Yards stuffed full of displaced mk5s, 175s, 350s etc., with no pre-determined plan for their re-use, highlights the total absence of a cascade plan.

 

[John R]

What cascade plan? Yards stuffed full of displaced mk5s, 175s, 350s etc., with no pre-determined plan for their re-use, highlights the total absence of a cascade plan.

It might be argued that it's the ROSCOs that take the financial hit on their valuable assets sitting around unused and deteriorating, but you can be sure that when it comes to quoting for new contracts, they will now be pricing in the risk that over the lifetime of a new build there will be periods where they do not attract any income but actually are costing the ROSCO money.

 

[Snow1964]

It might be argued that it's the ROSCOs that take the financial hit on their valuable assets sitting around unused and deteriorating, but you can be sure that when it comes to quoting for new contracts, they will now be pricing in the risk that over the lifetime of a new build there will be periods where they do not attract any income but actually are costing the ROSCO money.

Exactly, if DfT daftly thinks it is saving money by leaving trains off lease, it is operating a fools errand, because it will be priced into next lease plus a contingency for risk. So will end up paying more than if it had just agreed to a straight 30 year lease with no contingency risk periods.

 

[Harpo]

Exactly, if DfT daftly thinks it is saving money by leaving trains off lease, it is operating a fools errand, because it will be priced into next lease plus a contingency for risk.

The same DfT ‘wisdom’ that saddled GWR with the horrific IET contract.

 

[John R]

The same DfT ‘wisdom’ that saddled GWR with the horrific IET contract.

Apart from an atlas, Stuart Baker's legacy to the industry...

 

[tfw756rider]

175002 operating 2C49 today.

Realtime Trains | 2C49 1242 Plymouth to Penzance | 31/01/2026

Real-time train running information for 2C49 1242 departure from Plymouth to Penzance on 31/01/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[northernbelle]

None of which should be a surprise to GWR - the maintenance position is known for all vehicles - unless they didn't ask the right questions?

That's the problem - the 'maintenance position' and reality are proving to be two different things and therefore, yes, is a surprise to GWR.

 

[GoneSouth]

Many units had their milages maxed out before hand back, so will likely require major exams with long lead times for parts. Mark Hopwood brought this up in an interview on youtube a few days ago

Link:

Thanks for posting the link, found this quite enlightening to hear how pragmatic he is about change, and how he wants to do better. I’d quite like to have a chat over a pint with this chap.

 

[REVUpminster]

175002 seems to have come a cropper today being terminated today at Liskeard. Can't see what they did with it unless they stuck it up the Looe branch out of the way.

 

[XFeed]

175002 seems to have come a cropper today being terminated today at Liskeard. Can't see what they did with it unless they stuck it up the Looe branch out of the way.

There wasn`t a large number of Caped units during the ATW and TfW days, that`s if it was Caped and the service may have been terminated for some other operational reason ?
I`m just speculating.

 

[Ashley Hill]

175002 seems to have come a cropper today being terminated

Loss of door interlock.

 

[XFeed]

Loss of door interlock.

That is the 2nd time that door interlock issues has been reported on 002 as post # 2175 states.

 

[REVUpminster]

Second go. Very late in the day.

Realtime Trains | 5V85 1744 Wolverton Centre Sidings to Laira T.& R.S.M.D. | 06/02/2026

Real-time train running information for 5V85 1744 departure from Wolverton Centre Sidings to Laira T.& R.S.M.D. on 06/02/2026. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[nctd2306]

Today's 2C26 has currently got a pair(!) of 175s allocated!

 

[BillStampy]

Today's 2C26 has currently got a pair(!) of 175s allocated!

Was a misallocation by the looks of it. 175002's broken again at Liskeard now too!

 

[nctd2306]

Was a misallocation by the looks of it. 175002's broken again at Liskeard now too!

Ah that's a shame, I bet they wish they had used the other unit now!

 

[BillStampy]

Ah that's a shame, I bet they wish they had used the other unit now!

002 needs a bit of time on the naughty step, give 011 a chance I reckon!

 

[XFeed]

Was a misallocation by the looks of it. 175002's broken again at Liskeard now too!

I know nothing about railway operations in the south West and this is the 2nd time recently that 002 has failed at Liskeard. Is this just coincidence that it only got this far again or is Liskeard a strategic station to terminate a unit in trouble ?

 

[The_Train]

Was a misallocation by the looks of it. 175002's broken again at Liskeard now too!

Bizarrely, it "no reported" at every location after Liskeard and then reappeared at Penwithers Jct at 15:53 apparently running 50 late

 

[Rich McLean]

Bizarrely, it "no reported" at every location after Liskeard and then reappeared at Penwithers Jct at 15:53 apparently running 50 late

It's failed at Liskeard and is still there. 1Z99 activated to rescue it.

 

[The_Train]

It's failed at Liskeard and is still there. 1Z99 activated to rescue it.

Must be a glitch in the matrix that made it appear at Penwithers then

 

[TheLastMinute]

It's failed at Liskeard and is still there. 1Z99 activated to rescue it.

Indeed, 175002 is still at Liskeard having arrived at 1407, blocking the Down Main with 2C27 stuck behind it. Latest plan was for 1Z99 to run wrong road between Saltash and Liskeard after 1A92 had passed but that cleared Saltash 20 mins ago.

Edit: Looks like that plan is on hold. Up train 2P19 which had been holding at Bodmin Parkway since 1605 has just been released.

 

[BillStampy]

I know nothing about railway operations in the south West and this is the 2nd time recently that 002 has failed at Liskeard. Is this just coincidence that it only got this far again or is Liskeard a strategic station to terminate a unit in trouble ?

Something to do with the brakes supposedly. 002's not doing it's best!

 

[fgwrich]

Bizarrely, it "no reported" at every location after Liskeard and then reappeared at Penwithers Jct at 15:53 apparently running 50 late

Unable to release brakes this time apparently.