Saxmundham to Leiston

[Brightonboy]

Since this is the speculative discussion thread with some 'kite-flying' thrown in...

With the building od Sizewell C starting, the plans include using the branch from Saxmundham to Leiston to bring in materiels and mitigate the amount of lorries travelling on the local roads. There have been suggestions in some quarters that passenger traffic could also restart on the branch, initially as a means of getting construction staff in and out each day but with the hope that after several years of construction the service might live on beyond that. Personally, I can't see it as viable as there seems to me to be only 3 options for such a service;

a branch-only shuttle - there's no bay at Saxmundham so there's a problem in how close a connection you can make between branch trains and East Suffolk Line services without blocking the branch line for the construction traffic. And without those connections the value of the service immediately diminishes.​

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portion working off/on East Suffolk Line trains to/from Ipswich - this would result in 6, 7 or 8 car trains south of Saxmundham and I doubt there are any platforms at those stations capable of handling more than 4 cars and additional staff would be required for the attaching and detaching at Saxmundham.​

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through working to Ipswich - I doubt there is the capacity for many additional trains on that route, especially west of Westerfield and in the platforms at Ipswich for any worthwhile service frequency. I am assuming that the existing (and growing) service frequency up to Lowestoft would have to be maintained.​

So all the possibilities for a passenger service to Leiston seem to me to be impossible without significant investment in infrastructure which can surely never stand up to a cost/benefit analysis against the revenue that could be generated.

Can anyone see a case where such a service could be made to stand up?

 

[CMS1]

Sizewell C is one of the UK's biggest projects but hasn't been discussed much. It's now looking at more like a 15 year project than 10, with 10,000 workers and hundreds of different companies involved - contractors, suppliers & professionals. Currently there are about 2,000 workers on site and each morning there a streams of hundreds of vehicles through all the villages on the way to the site.

The transport strategy is a mix of road, rail and sea, rail and sea is only for some materials, but the road plans for the remainder of the materials and all the personnel are poorly thought out and inadequate IMO, with a number of issues:

• The park and rides are after some very congested sections of the A12 including single lane sections
• The 2 village bypass ignores Marlesford & Little Glenham, which are going to get all the traffic through them
• The worst one - the circa 4 mile new road from Sizewell to the A12 is so indirect for southbound traffic from the region (which is the majority) that it offers no benefit to the local communities as a new road compared to the other options (i.e. a direct road from Leiston to the A12), its also indirect for northbound traffic - in both cases people will use the original road through the villages. As its so indirect its also likely that a lot of the Sizewell traffic will still use the original roads.

In due course there will be an onsite campus accomodating 2,400, but there is still a significant number going to be travelling each day, including travelling to/from London where Sizewell C's and the main contractors offices are.

Back to your question, I don't think a Leiston-Saxmundham service is a solution for the reasons you list out. If it was still at planning stage I think a rail shuttle from a new station at the Woodbridge/Martlesham roundabout directly to the office site (which is adjacent to the Leiston branch) should have been considered.

Instead I think the East Suffolk Line needs improvements and promotion (there is already a shuttle bus from Saxmundam station) so it can offer decent option for Sizewell C, as given the inadequacy of the road-based strategy a lot of people are going to get fed up with driving over the next 15 years. EDF have recently funded Ipswich to Halesworth being entirely replaced to continously welded track, which has made a massive difference (although there is a section after Woodbridge that has been missed!).

The 2 things that will make a big difference IMO are:
- Improved linespeeds - a lot of people I know don't use the East Suffolk line as it just feels slow compared to driving. But this will also allow a connection to the fast London train instead of the slow one at some times of day, plus ease Westerfield-Ipswich congestion slightly.
- A daily through London service each morning and evening (timed with the Sizewell working hours) in both directions. This was planned pre Covid but never rolled out despite the investment in bi-modes. GA have a set (just 1?) of 3 coupled bi-mode 755s running Liverpool Street to Norwich, so one option is 2 units split off onto the East Suffolk Line and one continues to Norwich. This will make a big boost to the region and to Lowestoft and take Sizewell traffic off the roads. As its a government funded project that is being very closely regulated and monitored with a lot of rules being put in place for the workers and contractors involved, they could make rail travel the required mode of transport to Sizewell C if originating from London or the A12 corridor....

There's already been a number of recent unbudgeted projects that EDF have done to pacify the locals, so I wonder with pressure they might fund the above!

 

[dk1]

The ‘triple traction’ units are permanently coupled for each week. They are not permitted to be split in traffic as each buried cab is not prepped each day. Should it be split at any time all units must taken out of traffic and return to Crown Point Depot.

 

[CMS1]

Thanks, how many of these sets are there? Doesn't seem very good use of the investment into bi modes with automatic couplers...

 

[stevieinselby]

With the building od Sizewell C starting, the plans include using the branch from Saxmundham to Leiston to bring in materiels and mitigate the amount of lorries travelling on the local roads. There have been suggestions in some quarters that passenger traffic could also restart on the branch, initially as a means of getting construction staff in and out each day but with the hope that after several years of construction the service might live on beyond that. Personally, I can't see it as viable as there seems to me to be only 3 options for such a service;

a branch-only shuttle - there's no bay at Saxmundham so there's a problem in how close a connection you can make between branch trains and East Suffolk Line services without blocking the branch line for the construction traffic. And without those connections the value of the service immediately diminishes.​

​

portion working off/on East Suffolk Line trains to/from Ipswich - this would result in 6, 7 or 8 car trains south of Saxmundham and I doubt there are any platforms at those stations capable of handling more than 4 cars and additional staff would be required for the attaching and detaching at Saxmundham.​

​

through working to Ipswich - I doubt there is the capacity for many additional trains on that route, especially west of Westerfield and in the platforms at Ipswich for any worthwhile service frequency. I am assuming that the existing (and growing) service frequency up to Lowestoft would have to be maintained.​

Agreed, it's very hard to see a line to Leiston working. The line from Saxmundham to Ipswich is predominantly single track and so can't accommodate additional trains. No facility at Saxmundham for a branch line to terminate without blocking the mainline, but no point in terminating trains there unless the branch line unit lays over while the up and down trains come through. Very poor asset utilisation running an hourly service on the branch, but hard to imagine that a second service would have any merit if it isn't connecting with onward trains. Most stations from Saxmundham south couldn't accommodate a double unit so portion working is not viable.

The investment needed to resolve any of those problems wouldn't be justified for a short-term construction project and long-term branch to a small town – better to put the money into improving the bus service, which is already 3tph M-Sa daytime, and ensuring it has good connections with the trains (although it could be tricky actually getting buses to Saxmundham station).

The ‘triple traction’ units are permanently coupled for each week. They are not permitted to be split in traffic as each buried cab is not prepped each day. Should it be split at any time all units must taken out of traffic and return to Crown Point Depot.

It feels like this would be a pretty easy problem to solve if there was a need for it – if a Leiston branch was built and if the best way of serving it was portion working off the triple set to/from London (both very big "if"s!) then it shouldn't be beyond the wit of the railways to change the routines so that all cabs were prepped for use.

 

[dk1]

Agreed, it's very hard to see a line to Leiston working. The line from Saxmundham to Ipswich is predominantly single track and so can't accommodate additional trains. No facility at Saxmundham for a branch line to terminate without blocking the mainline, but no point in terminating trains there unless the branch line unit lays over while the up and down trains come through. Very poor asset utilisation running an hourly service on the branch, but hard to imagine that a second service would have any merit if it isn't connecting with onward trains. Most stations from Saxmundham south couldn't accommodate a double unit so portion working is not viable.

The investment needed to resolve any of those problems wouldn't be justified for a short-term construction project and long-term branch to a small town – better to put the money into improving the bus service, which is already 3tph M-Sa daytime, and ensuring it has good connections with the trains (although it could be tricky actually getting buses to Saxmundham station).

It feels like this would be a pretty easy problem to solve if there was a need for it – if a Leiston branch was built and if the best way of serving it was portion working off the triple set to/from London (both very big "if"s!) then it shouldn't be beyond the wit of the railways to change the routines so that all cabs were prepped for use.

It’s just not viable as a proposition in my opinion. In twelve or so years time once the power station is complete I think the yard has to be returned to nature and business from Leiston alone would be very poor value For money. There is no appetite for any through running to/from the East Suffolk line towards London anymore from the train operator due to the reliability risk from the single line sections. Also no plans to do any more than a couple of extra signals between Woodbridge & Saxmundham to break up that long single line that is already in use for around 42 in every 60 minutes.

 

[CMS1]

Agree on Leiston branch, but the East Suffolk line has significant potential - it serves circa 120,000 people and has great trains and new track, it just needs these assets put to best use and be well promoted.

 

[CMS1]

In Network Rail's Norfolk & East Suffolk Strategic Advice 2025, they actually propose another service from Ipswich-Saxmundham on the East Suffolk (making this section half hourly), explicity including the option to extend to Leiston. This would need a loop at Wickham Market and an extra running line from East Suffolk Junction to Ipswich station.

See extracts below:







This is the document from Network Rails site (despite strange URL): https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blo...folk & East Suffolk Strategic Advice 2025.pdf

If it was a through line, rather than a shuttle, there could be hundreds of Sizewell C staff using this each day, as in a few weeks only those living 6 miles from the site will be permitted to drive, everyone else will be required to use the Sizewell buses or public transport.