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S&B discover the GDS design system: new TVM prototype

Adam Williams

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S&B => Scheidt & Bachmann, a TVM (ticket vending machine) manufacturer

I found some videos on YouTube from S&B showing a new TVM user interface currently in use in a prototype being built:


Snapshot from YouTube video showing prototype user interface for planning journeys.

Not completely sure quite what to make of this, it does look a little bit like someone discovered the GDS components that are in use on various gov.uk services for the first time and went crazy adding them all onto the screen.

With that said, it does look like there's some useful functionality in the pipeline including seat reservations, proper journey planning etc. They describe it as a Minimum Viable Product for now, so it'll be interesting to see where this goes and whether the UI remains the same or not.
 
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tomuk

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Not completely sure quite what to make of this, it does look a little bit like someone discovered the GDS components that are in use on various gov.uk services for the first time and went crazy adding them all onto the screen.
Maybe its a prototype commissioned by Great British Railways\DFT that might explain the enthusiasm for the GDS components.
 

MrJeeves

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What's that "London Victoria via Boundary Zone 6" all about, I wonder... Seems a very weird way to write it.
 

Topological

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Is this to allow the use of Oyster or similar? Does the Boundary Zone 6 insert a split. That would be clever if so. The 2 changes suggests something as well.

Certainly would be odd to see anything than just "London Victoria" if it was purely London to Brighton.
 

JaJaWa

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Many other countries have a consistent user interface across all TVM manufacturers. The UK approach is weird.
 

AndrewE

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Many other countries have a consistent user interface across all TVM manufacturers. The UK approach is weird.
That's what you get if "private enterprise rules" is your mantra (i.e your dogma) regardless of evidence, experience or even repeated failure to achieve any desired outcomes!
 

MrJeeves

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The prototype software seems to have made it into production at Colchester. Not sure if or when we'll see it roll out more widely.

It's broken all of my S&B muscle memory, but things change, and people should adapt! Overall, it appears to work pretty well, but there's certainly some things to fix and improve.

The UI isn't "journey planning first" like some others, but it does appear to find fares to sell by planning a journey and seeing what through tickets are valid across the itineries it finds. This could be an issue during engineering works, for example, if easements are not created correctly, or even just in service disruption.

For a local-to-me example, it may not be possible to buy "Thameslink Only" tickets during a Brighton to London blockade where the buses are actually encoded in the data as being operated by Southern as journey planners won't be able to validate the route. Before, this was fine as you could buy them at one of the dumb TVMs, but now that appears like it may not be possible.

Impressively, it handles SailRail well, at least for journeys it's possible to otherwise buy online. Somewhat ironically, the Stena Line & GA Dutchflyer tickets are not available on the TVM as these can still only be purchased via Stena Line directly.

PXL_20250115_133545697.MP.jpg

It also has a fairly nice itinerary view, but I'm not sure the car icon is the right choice for Transfers. In my opinion, it should also be clearer that Transfers are at the customer's own expense, and are not covered by the ticket itself. I'm also not a fan of it saying "Train" with the departure time below it. I think it would be much easier to read if the order of those were reversed.

PXL_20250115_133614258.MP.jpg

The journey planning feature at the bottom-right lets you pick dates and times of travel and see various itineraries. You can also add a via or avoid location, too. Trouble is, the list of stations for via/avoid appears to include some less helpful locations, such as "London Travelcard Zones 1-6" and also things like junctions and depots! :D And no, if you choose those, it will just fail to find any journeys.

PXL_20250115_134150328.MP.jpg

When buying an "open return ticket", it seems to state you can travel back with this ticket any time today, but doesn't state the full validity period of the ticket anywhere? Also, it never shows you the ticket's route until it's printed and in your hands, which isn't ideal!

In the first image below, it's showing the Anytime Return VIA SALISBURY: https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=ASH&dest=TAU&rte=618&tkt=SOR

PXL_20250115_134627876.MP.jpg

Between these photos, I pressed "Show return trains", chose a date of the next day, and added a Railcard, hence the price changes.

In the pictures below, it is a 16-25 Discounted Off-peak Return VIA SALISBURY: https://www.brfares.com/!faredetail?orig=ASH&dest=TAU&rte=618&tkt=SVR

PXL_20250115_134729357.MP.jpg

The "restricted ticket" wording is a little confusing, but it's referring to the time restrictions rather than you needing permission to buy the ticket. And no, it doesn't mention the ticket route here either.

PXL_20250115_134732877.MP.jpg

Finally, doing a slightly silly journey search from Clapham Junction to Euston made me realise that nowhere does it actually say what ticket you're buying at all! The heading text in the blue bar before checkout is actually the journey being made, so if you're using the journey planning feature of the machine there seems to be no way to know what you're paying for until you've spent your money.

Below seems to be an Anytime Day Single to London Underground Zones 1-2, but I only know that because I just spent 5 mins on BRFares trying to find something that matches the cost! I get the idea of trying to abstract away the details of the tickets when planning a journey, but surely you have to tell someone what they're actually buying at some point.

PXL_20250115_135222869.MP.jpg
 

MrJeeves

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Another pair of these have appeared at Ealing Broadway station.

Some more issues...

Ealing Broadway apparently has approximately 2 million parking spaces.

PXL_20260130_104633612.jpg

When extending a Travelcard, the TVM reports that "it has not been cheaper to extend your Travelcard" while simultaneously offering a Boundary Zone 6 fare. Furthermore, it is still completely unclear what ticket is actually being sold — in this case it looks like Ealing Broadway to Burgess Hill, but the fare matches that of BZ6 - Burgess Hill.

PXL_20260130_104330773.jpg
 

Edvid

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A Scheidt & Bachmann TVM at a TfL-operated station? "Greater London" included in a postal address?

I'm not sure which of those is more surprising.

Tongue-in-cheekiness aside, the prototype-related survey Qualtrics are running for Greater Anglia still appears to be live.
 

MrJeeves

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When I was at Ealing Broadway, there was a group of Elizabeth Line staff being taught how to use the machine from a staff perspective.

The staff member doing the training seemed to be somewhat involved in the rollout, and was referring to things that they had already reported back to the software "architects" involved. I didn't catch what those were, though, but it related to Rangers and Rovers functionality.
 

stadler

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Another pair of these have appeared at Ealing Broadway station.

Some more issues...

Ealing Broadway apparently has approximately 2 million parking spaces.

View attachment 196982

When extending a Travelcard, the TVM reports that "it has not been cheaper to extend your Travelcard" while simultaneously offering a Boundary Zone 6 fare. Furthermore, it is still completely unclear what ticket is actually being sold — in this case it looks like Ealing Broadway to Burgess Hill, but the fare matches that of BZ6 - Burgess Hill.

View attachment 196983
I have to wonder what exactly is the point of displaying this information about parking spaces at the station on a ticket machine. Why would anybody who is using a ticket machine need to know this information.

Also just curious what machine type is that? It looks a bit like an S&B ST22 (the slimline model) but the screen is tilted and normally those machines have a flat screen. Only the S&B ST70 and the S&B ST71 (the full size large models) have a tilted screen. I do not suppose you have a full photo?

I am very surprised that TFL would pick a new type of ticket machines. They have only just installed a lot of new Cubic machines and Shere machines at most of the Elizabeth Line stations in recent years.
 

Edvid

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I am very surprised that TFL would pick a new type of ticket machines. They have only just installed a lot of new Cubic machines and Shere machines at most of the Elizabeth Line stations in recent years.
Quite. Nonetheless it pales in comparison to their ditching of Cubic as revenue collection contractor...

Something to look out for in a future T&R Update.
 

stadler

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Quite. Nonetheless it pales in comparison to their ditching of Cubic as revenue collection contractor...

Something to look out for in a future T&R Update.
Indeed i shall keep an eye out in the next few TRU editions for any information on this. If it is a very recent installation then i wonder if TFL are trialling different manufacturers and models of TVMs now that they have decided to ditch Cubic as a revenue contractor. So this could potentially be just a trial to see if S&B machines work for them. I suppose it is also a possibility that they are looking to standardise their TVMs to just one type across all EL / LO / LU / DLR stations.

Also to answer my previous question i have just now spent time looking through the web archive at the S&B website history and it seems the slimline models actually have three types. ST20/ST21/ST22 have all been made. ST20 was the first and has a flat screen and small sized ticket flap. ST21 was the second and has a tilted screen and small sized ticket flap. ST22 was the third and has a tilted screen and wide sized ticket flap. All three look extremely similar other than these minor differences. They probably have a few other differences too with the software. So this new model is in fact the newest ST22 slimline type.
 

Adam Williams

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So this could potentially be just a trial to see if S&B machines work for them
Good riddance to bad rubbish? From a National Rail perspective I've never known such a poor TVM offering as what Cubic have delivered. It's a shame the barriers won't be going in the bin as well.

I've genuinely lost track of the number of bizarre things to customers they've done outwith the RSP specifications.
 

CarrotPie

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Ealing Broadway apparently has approximately 2 million parking spaces.

PXL_20260130_104633612.jpg
Not just 2 million, but 23 million! And that's not even near a power of two, surprisingly (if you know, you know).
 

Wallsendmag

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Good riddance to bad rubbish? From a National Rail perspective I've never known such a poor TVM offering as what Cubic have delivered. It's a shame the barriers won't be going in the bin as well.

I've genuinely lost track of the number of bizarre things to customers they've done outwith the RSP specifications.
You need to have a chat with a TOC that has S&B TVMs
 

vuzzeho

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S&B => Scheidt & Bachmann, a TVM (ticket vending machine) manufacturer

I found some videos on YouTube from S&B showing a new TVM user interface currently in use in a prototype being built:


View attachment 139472

Not completely sure quite what to make of this, it does look a little bit like someone discovered the GDS components that are in use on various gov.uk services for the first time and went crazy adding them all onto the screen.

With that said, it does look like there's some useful functionality in the pipeline including seat reservations, proper journey planning etc. They describe it as a Minimum Viable Product for now, so it'll be interesting to see where this goes and whether the UI remains the same or not.
Without giving too much away about myself, I am familiar with the GOV.UK Design System. This is the first time I've seen this and I've never used those TVMs, so can't speak on their functionality, but nearly everything there is just off-pattern. Would not pass an assessment at all.
 

Adam Williams

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You need to have a chat with a TOC that has S&B TVMs

I wouldn't say we've had zero problems from a Ticket on Departure perspective with S&B either, but I want to say we've had far fewer than Cubic, and also fewer than Flowbird/EasyPark/Arrive/Parkeon/whatever else they're called today (Flowbird get extra black marks for screwing Travelcards up a while back and then blaming the ticket retailer for it).
 

Wallsendmag

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I wouldn't say we've had zero problems from a Ticket on Departure perspective with S&B either, but I want to say we've had far fewer than Cubic, and also fewer than Flowbird/EasyPark/Arrive/Parkeon/whatever else they're called today (Flowbird get extra black marks for screwing Travelcards up a while back and then blaming the ticket retailer for it).
With 3.5k TVMs you're always going to get the odd problem but it's the new sotware that's causing headaches
PS S&B also supply gates have a look at the new side of Darlington next month
 

OscarH

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With 3.5k TVMs you're always going to get the odd problem but it's the new sotware that's causing headaches
PS S&B also supply gates have a look at the new side of Darlington next month
I have many quite serious and fundamental complaints about the old ones too (beyond reasonable rare issues that occur because of scale)

But yeah, the new ones are... interesting
 

Chriso

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I used the West Drayton one yday and found it slow and awkward for a simple day return compared to the old S&B typeface. I even had to pick a return and ended up with a seat reservation lol
 

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