West Country Independents

[Marcus Fryer]

2 Enviro and 2 Volvo B9s going:

Fleet & Service Updates

Please visit faresaver.co.uk/fleet-explorer/ for fleet information. An update from the editor Faresaver have recently published a fleet explorer page on their website, which can be accessed...

faresaverenthusiasts.weebly.com

Enviro200s YX62EDO & P and Volvo B9TLs RRU345 & NUH527 have now been withdrawn

Whereas WOB, WOC and WOD have tracked on bustimes.org since 2 December, WOA hasn’t appeared to track since being delivered. Is there a reason known for this?

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Whereas WOB, WOC and WOD have tracked on bustimes.org since 2 December, WOA hasn’t appeared to track since being delivered. Is there a reason known for this?

BU75 WOA is now tracking on bustimes.org, since Thursday 8 January.

 

[-Colly405-]

Not quite sure where to post this, but it appears that there is a new operator in Bath.

"High Experiences Ltd" shows up in the WECA/TravelWest Record of Registrations as a new operator from yesterday (30/1) on the City Tour, https://travelwest.info/bus/registrations/record-of-registration-applications/

A quick check on VOSA (PH2085119) and it looks to be trading as City Sightseeing.

The route and stop numbers on the City Sightseeing webpage appear to be identical to the Tootbus route and stop numbers.

Bustimes now seems to only show the City Sightseeing Bath City Tour and not the Bath Bus Co / First / Tootbus one.
Traveline seems to only show the Bath Bus Co version.
TravelWest shows both.

 

[DaveLondon]

Not quite sure where to post this, but it appears that there is a new operator in Bath.

"High Experiences Ltd" shows up in the WECA/TravelWest Record of Registrations as a new operator from yesterday (30/1) on the City Tour, https://travelwest.info/bus/registrations/record-of-registration-applications/

A quick check on VOSA (PH2085119) and it looks to be trading as City Sightseeing.

The route and stop numbers on the City Sightseeing webpage appear to be identical to the Tootbus route and stop numbers.

Bustimes now seems to only show the City Sightseeing Bath City Tour and not the Bath Bus Co / First / Tootbus one.
Traveline seems to only show the Bath Bus Co version.
TravelWest shows both.

Yes they have a fleet of ex Stagecoach London polish built scania open toppers. Bath Bus had lost the City Sightseeing franchise before take over.

 

[markymark2000]

Bustimes now seems to only show the City Sightseeing Bath City Tour and not the Bath Bus Co / First / Tootbus one.
Traveline seems to only show the Bath Bus Co version.
TravelWest shows both.

The new City Sightseeing route data has made it's way to TravelineSW and so I presume it will feed through to the main Traveline database shortly.

Doesn't help though too that neither Bath Bus Company, nor High Experiences (Trading as CitySightseeing Bath) upload any data to bus open data. Bath Bus Company has no excuse but I know they liked to think they were above the law. High Experiences I trust are in the process of sorting the details out and perhaps got caught out with the bus open data team switching over in the past 2 months.

 

[Whiteway215]

Yes they have a fleet of ex Stagecoach London polish built scania open toppers. Bath Bus had lost the City Sightseeing franchise before take over.

A few weeks ago I had reason to visit the Burnett Business Park near Keynsham and was surprised to see two of the Scania open tops parked in a yard next to the Bath Bus Company depot.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Yes they have a fleet of ex Stagecoach London polish built scania open toppers. Bath Bus had lost the City Sightseeing franchise before take over.

Is the City Sightseeing tour separate from the Bath Skyline tour, because I saw WX15 OFT on the latter carrying a First Bus fleet number (36298) on 30 December?

 

[DaveLondon]

Is the City Sightseeing tour separate from the Bath Skyline tour, because I saw WX15 OFT on the latter carrying a First Bus fleet number (36298) on 30 December?

Bath Bus is now part of First and their vehicles carry Firts 5 figure numbers although are still running on Bath Bus discs and legals NOT First West of England. The TO.OT bus name is carried by most vehicles. Bath Bus no longer does any City Sightseeing work as they lost the contract a few months back. The new operator will be trading as City Sightseeing and is not connected.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Bath Bus is now part of First and their vehicles carry First 5 figure numbers although are still running on Bath Bus discs and legals NOT First West of England. The TO.OT bus name is carried by most vehicles. Bath Bus no longer does any City Sightseeing work as they lost the contract a few months back. The new operator will be trading as City Sightseeing and is not connected.

So the Bath Skyline tour is not part of City Sightseeing but a separate Bath Bus Company operation in its own right?
And bustimes.org have got it wrong by removing Bath Bus Company from the list of South West operators and showing the A4 and vehicles used thereon as a First West of England operation?

 

[Flange Squeal]

Is the City Sightseeing tour separate from the Bath Skyline tour, because I saw WX15 OFT on the latter carrying a First Bus fleet number (36298) on 30 December?

Bath Bus Company offer two routes under the Tootbus name - The City Tour and The Skyline Tour. They do not operate under the City Sightseeing brand anymore. This new operator will.

Bath Bus no longer does any City Sightseeing work as they lost the contract a few months back.

They didn’t operate in Bath under the City Sightseeing name throughout 2025, and Bath was not listed on the City Sightseeing website last year.

 

[swifty]

And bustimes.org have got it wrong by removing Bath Bus Company from the list of South West operators and showing the A4 and vehicles used thereon as a First West of England operation?

Yes and no. BBC haven’t ever uploaded timetables for the tours to open data so they don’t feed through. The A4 on the other hand has was transferred to FWoE in December.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Feb 2026 ==

Bath Bus Company offer two routes under the Tootbus name - The City Tour and The Skyline Tour. They do not operate under the City Sightseeing brand anymore. This new operator will.

It will be interesting to see what effect the Traffic Regulation Condition, introduced at the height of the open top wars in the 00’s, has now that a second operator has arrived. It still limits the number of buses that can be used, where and how long they can stop and how frequent they can run, so in theory if BBC are using most of the allocation, there is limited scope for High Enterprise.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Yes and no. BBC haven’t ever uploaded timetables for the tours to open data so they don’t feed through. The A4 on the other hand has was transferred to FWoE in December.

I see from bustiimes.org the A4 transferred on the 14/15 December. Presumably the vehicles transferred the same time, but 34420 (YX23 OWJ) at least still had Bath Bus Company legal lettering when I saw it on 28 January.
Mind you, it also still carried RATP Group logos.

 

[DaveLondon]

I see from bustiimes.org the A4 transferred on the 14/15 December. Presumably the vehicles transferred the same time, but 34420 (YX23 OWJ) at least still had Bath Bus Company legal lettering when I saw it on 28 January.
Mind you, it also still carried RATP Group logos.

Bustimes is incorrect (at least at the present). Vehicles are carrying Bath Bus discs and legals. I suspect this will change but has not yet! As is common Bustimes makes assumptions.

 

[markymark2000]

Bustimes is incorrect (at least at the present). Vehicles are carrying Bath Bus discs and legals. I suspect this will change but has not yet! As is common Bustimes makes assumptions.

What do you think Bustimes is incorrect about and making assumptions about?

The A4 route was reregistered onto the First West of England operators licence.

Register of Local Bus Services Applications - WEST

The West of England Combined Authority issues the registration applications received by the authority every 7 days. All local bus registration applications that operate wholly within the West of England Enhanced Partnership (EP) area (Bath and North East Somerset, Bristol, North Somerset and...

travelwest.info

18th December PDF


In simple terms (copy and paste gets messy so hopefully paraphrasing will be ok). The Travelwest notices and proceedings pdf shows the cancellation of the Bath Bus Company A4 registration effective 15th December. And a new First West Of England registration for the A4 which starts on 14th December.

The route data is also coming in from data that First West Of England Commercial team have uploaded to Bus Open Data (as shown at the bottom of the A4 timetable page) using the description FBRI - Keynsham. The data links to the WOE operators licence and registration details from above. And they have linked the route to the First Bristol, Bath and the West operator code (FBRI)



The legal lettering on the vehicle is a different issue. But the facts show that the route is registered as Frist West of England and the data on bustimes shows as what First West of England has provided. If there's an issue, it's an issue with the data that First themselves have uploaded to the government data portal. Not a bustimes issue.

 

[richard13]

Bustimes is incorrect (at least at the present). Vehicles are carrying Bath Bus discs and legals. I suspect this will change but has not yet! As is common Bustimes makes assumptions.

The Bath Bus Company is still a trading company. It was bought by First Group, but still continues and so discs and legal address do not need to change. If First internally want to change the vehicle identification numbers that is purely an internal matter for them. The A4 is on the First West of England website. The legal company structure, employment contracts, etc. don't have to match the practical management, advertising, internal control etc. as they are all owned by the same umbrella group company. I would presume it will change at some point, but probably when the accountants want it to, like after financial year end and when legal and HR has the time for the paperwork.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

What do you think Bustimes is incorrect about and making assumptions about?

The A4 route was reregistered onto the First West of England operators licence.

Register of Local Bus Services Applications - WEST

The West of England Combined Authority issues the registration applications received by the authority every 7 days. All local bus registration applications that operate wholly within the West of England Enhanced Partnership (EP) area (Bath and North East Somerset, Bristol, North Somerset and...

travelwest.info

18th December PDF
View attachment 197136View attachment 197137

In simple terms (copy and paste gets messy so hopefully paraphrasing will be ok). The Travelwest notices and proceedings pdf shows the cancellation of the Bath Bus Company A4 registration effective 15th December. And a new First West Of England registration for the A4 which starts on 14th December.

The route data is also coming in from data that First West Of England Commercial team have uploaded to Bus Open Data (as shown at the bottom of the A4 timetable page) using the description FBRI - Keynsham. The data links to the WOE operators licence and registration details from above. And they have linked the route to the First Bristol, Bath and the West operator code (FBRI)



The legal lettering on the vehicle is a different issue. But the facts show that the route is registered as Frist West of England and the data on bustimes shows as what First West of England has provided. If there's an issue, it's an issue with the data that First themselves have uploaded to the government data portal. Not a bustimes issue.

My apologies. I agree bustimes.org is correct with regards as to who the route is licensed to. I am, however, confused as to who actually owns the vehicles. Is it FWOE, but they haven’t changed the legal lettering in the past six weeks, or is it Bath Bus Company operating on hire to FWOE? Bustimes.org suggests the former is the case:

Vehicle edits – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

And has the whole Bath operation transferred to FWOE, or is it only the A4?

 

[Citistar]

I believe that the only reason the service has changed ownership on BusTimes is because FWOE put their ticket machines on the vehicles in place of the BBC ones from day one.

 

[markymark2000]

The Bath Bus Company is still a trading company. It was bought by First Group, but still continues and so discs and legal address do not need to change.

This is where it gets funky. First WOE doesn't have Keynsham yet on the operators licence apparently but the route is registered under First WOEs ops licence.

My apologies.

You're all good.

I agree bustimes.org is correct with regards as to who the route is licensed to. I am, however, confused as to who actually owns the vehicles. Is it FWOE, but they haven’t changed the legal lettering in the past six weeks, or is it Bath Bus Company operating on hire to FWOE? Bustimes.org suggests the former is the case:

Vehicle edits – bustimes.org

bustimes.org

And has the whole Bath operation transferred to FWOE, or is it only the A4?

So from what it looks like, Keynsham isn't an operating centre on the First West of England operators licence.

Pardon Our Interruption

(Photo shows that Keynsham is not an operating centre on this operators licence. Data from Gov.UK)

My understanding of this situation in general is that for this to all work, First WOE would have to contract the work out to Bath Bus Company (same as Stagecoach East has the 904 registered on their ops licence but Dews operate it with buses on their own ops licence).

If/when First WOE add Keynsham to their ops licence, then the vehicles should swap to use the First WOE operators licence and legal lettering (legal letting should always match the operators disc).


For the tour work it's still registered under Bath Bus Company as of now.

I believe that the only reason the service has changed ownership on BusTimes is because FWOE put their ticket machines on the vehicles in place of the BBC ones from day one.

It's been re-registered as well. If it was just the ticket machines, it wouldn't affect bustimes really as there are workarounds on there.

 

[richard13]

As both First WoE and Bath Bus Co are owned by Firstbus Holdings Ltd, they are in many ways the same company. How the various addresses, discs, licenses etc. have to be documented I have no idea, but it becomes very academic. They no doubt fill in forms to comply as required, but they are not in many ways separate companies.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

This is where it gets funky. First WOE doesn't have Keynsham yet on the operators licence apparently but the route is registered under First WOEs ops licence.


You're all good.


So from what it looks like, Keynsham isn't an operating centre on the First West of England operators licence.

Pardon Our Interruption

View attachment 197144
(Photo shows that Keynsham is not an operating centre on this operators licence. Data from Gov.UK)

My understanding of this situation in general is that for this to all work, First WOE would have to contract the work out to Bath Bus Company (same as Stagecoach East has the 904 registered on their ops licence but Dews operate it with buses on their own ops licence).

If/when First WOE add Keynsham to their ops licence, then the vehicles should swap to use the First WOE operators licence and legal lettering (legal letting should always match the operators disc).


For the tour work it's still registered under Bath Bus Company as of now.


It's been re-registered as well. If it was just the ticket machines, it wouldn't affect bustimes really as there are workarounds on there.

Thank you all for the explanation. As you say, the situation is rather complicated!

 

[t rex]

Two of the scanias that are used on the new citysightseeing service in bath today
Operated by high experience

 

[father_jack]

Just a question that maybe @Citistar might be able to answer- does a WECA tendered service have to take cash ? Won't go into specifics but it seemed the bus was being run for the driver's convenience..........(the driving standard was awful also)

 

[Citistar]

Just a question that maybe @Citistar might be able to answer- does a WECA tendered service have to take cash ? Won't go into specifics but it seemed the bus was being run for the driver's convenience..........(the driving standard was awful also)

That's an excellent question. The most recent version of the contract that i have (2024, may have ince been updated*) only mentions cash once and that is in regard to Metrobus services. Operators are obliged to have working card payment systems (Schedule A7: Contractors must be equipped to take contactless payment, EMV ticketing and m-ticketing, which will be available for passengers to purchase tickets.), but there is no mention of an explicit obligation to accept cash payments.

Also be aware that the majority of the WestLocal services [2V, 40, 99, 532, 534, K1, X91, Y8] are not subject to WECA contract conditions (although the Enhanced Partnership requirements should still apply), because they were procured by the community organisations which suggested them. 61 has since been retendered by WECA themselves, so i would expect standard WECA requirements to apply.

Things are further muddied because WECA refuses to issue proper details of which bus services are currently being financially supported on commercial grounds, aside from those which are (supposedly) wholly operated under contract. As an example, we know that 522 was formally tendered (albeit as a service between Brislington P&R and Odd Down P&R), but we also know that 172 is financially supported to provide the half hourly frequency to Norton Radstock (and ~15min headway from Temple Cloud to Bristol). So whilst we would expect service 522 to comply with WECA contract conditions, service 172 wouldn't necessarily be likewise.

* - for some reason and despite having submitted all the paperwork to take part, i'm not part of the tendering system and don't know who to talk to in order to in the black box organisation of WECA to rectify that. Perhaps a story for another time.

 

[father_jack]

That's an excellent question. The most recent version of the contract that i have (2024, may have ince been updated*) only mentions cash once and that is in regard to Metrobus services. Operators are obliged to have working card payment systems (Schedule A7: Contractors must be equipped to take contactless payment, EMV ticketing and m-ticketing, which will be available for passengers to purchase tickets.), but there is no mention of an explicit obligation to accept cash payments.

Also be aware that the majority of the WestLocal services [2V, 40, 99, 532, 534, K1, X91, Y8] are not subject to WECA contract conditions (although the Enhanced Partnership requirements should still apply), because they were procured by the community organisations which suggested them. 61 has since been retendered by WECA themselves, so i would expect standard WECA requirements to apply.

Things are further muddied because WECA refuses to issue proper details of which bus services are currently being financially supported on commercial grounds, aside from those which are (supposedly) wholly operated under contract. As an example, we know that 522 was formally tendered (albeit as a service between Brislington P&R and Odd Down P&R), but we also know that 172 is financially supported to provide the half hourly frequency to Norton Radstock (and ~15min headway from Temple Cloud to Bristol). So whilst we would expect service 522 to comply with WECA contract conditions, service 172 wouldn't necessarily be likewise.

* - for some reason and despite having submitted all the paperwork to take part, i'm not part of the tendering system and don't know who to talk to in order to in the black box organisation of WECA to rectify that. Perhaps a story for another time.

Thank you. I shall send WECA an email.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Coachstyle also have a new Volvo B8RLE MCV Evora BV24LNT. Seen on the 99 Swindon to Chippenham yesterday.

Coachstyle have now built up a collection of these. As well as BV24 LNT, they have LC23 XBJ (intended to go to Repton as SL23 REP and acquired by Coachstyle around December 2023), BD74 FKF and now BU75 WRV. LNT/FKF/WRV are for the 99. WRV has yet to receive Coachstyle fleetnames.
LC23 XBJ’s main haunt seems to be school route X43 during the week, but often also appears on the 99 on Saturdays.

Most if the 2014 Optare Solos soldier on on Coachstyle’s other routes, although YJ14 BWC was seen in a scrapyard in February 2025 after a fire on 25 June 2024.

Bus destroyed in Malmesbury fire as road closed by police

A bus has been destroyed in a fire in Malmesbury this afternoon (Tuesday). Emergency services were called to the A429 Burton Hill...

www.wiltshire999s.co.uk

Dated 25 June 2024:

A bus has been destroyed in a fire in Malmesbury this afternoon (Tuesday).

Emergency services were called to the A429 Burton Hill at around 4.30pm.
A Coachstyle bus caught fire outside Malmesbury Primary Care Centre.

Access to Cross Hayes in Malmesbury (the main town centre terminus) is severely restricted at present due to gas main works, and a temporary bus stop on Holloway has been provided for Chippenham bound 99s (also used by inbound buses from the north and west terminating at Cross Hayes, which then have a circuitous route via the A429 to reach Cross Hayes from the south).

 

[t rex]

New Mercedes minibus for eurocoaches of yate seen in bristol today wr75nyw

 

[t rex]

Chandlers coaches Mercedes tourismo ct26cct brand new coach seen in Cheltenham on its first day out apparently 03/03/2026

 

[markymark2000]

Purely in the interests of completeness given previous comments from myself and others in relation to the Bath City open top buses which were operated by Bath Bus Company. Bath Bus Company has deregistered these routes with Travelwest from 28th March. And First has registered these services on their operators licence from 28th March. Details can be found in the Travelwest registration documents.

From this date, this should lead to the end of the Bath Bus Company operators licence and name unless First randomly have a separate use for it, and should help to simplify the situation with legal lettering and so on.

https://travelwest.info/app/uploads/bus-applications-5-March-2026.pdf

Registration of new services granted under short notice
PH0000132/01010457/0
Operator Name and Address: First West of England Limited, ENTERPRISE HOUSE, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Service number: City Tour
Start: Bath Abbey (0180BAC30606)
End: Bath Abbey (0180BAC30606)
Via: Type of Service: Normal Stopping Service
Received Date: 02 Mar 2026 18:02:08
Effective Date: 28 Mar 2026
Days of Operation: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday,

PH0000132/01010456/0
Operator Name and Address: First West of England Limited, ENTERPRISE HOUSE, EASTON ROAD, BRISTOL, BS5 0DZ
Service number: Skyline Tour
Start: Manvers Street (0180BAA01346)
End: Manvers Street (0180BAA01346) Via:
Type of Service: Normal Stopping Service
Received Date: 02 Mar 2026 18:02:02
Effective Date: 28 Mar 2026
Days of Operation: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday,

Cancellations of existing services
Serial Number Details PH0006633/01010002/31
Operator Name and Address: Bath Bus Company Limited, Unit 14 Burnett Business Park, Gypsy Lane, Keynsham, BS31 2ED
Service number: City Tour
Start: Bath Abbey CF_0180BAC30606 Terrace Walk CA_0180BAC30603
End: Bath Abbey CF_0180BAC30606 Terrace Walk CA_0180BAC30603 Via: Queens Square
Type of Service: Normal Stopping Service, 3) Hail & Ride
Received Date: 18 Feb 2026 20:43:18
Effective Date: 28 Mar 2026
Days of Operation: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday,

PH0006633/01010012/29
Operator Name and Address: Bath Bus Company Limited, Unit 14 Burnett Business Park, Gypsy Lane, Keynsham, BS31 2ED
Service number: Skyline Tour
Start: Bath, Manvers Street (West) BF_0180BAA01346
End: Bath, Manvers Street (West) BF_0180BAA01346 Via: Prior Park GARDENS
Type of Service: Normal Stopping Service, 3) Hail & Ride
Received Date: 18 Feb 2026 20:43:32
Effective Date: 28 Mar 2026
Days of Operation: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday,

 

[-Colly405-]

Deleted as relates to First...

 

[Citistar]

The Combined Authority has now published a list of all service changes from April.

No great surprises, but just to confirm the key indie service changes:
2V/40/99/P1/X91/Y8 from Big Lemon to Eurocoaches.
20 (Bath, Big Lemon) Timetable change to improve reliability.
25 (Bristol) has been rumoured to pass to Eurocoaches, but still listed as TBC at the time of writing.
41 (Coachstyle) Timetable change to improve reliability.
61 (Eurocoaches) Withdrawn.
62/207 (Eurocoaches) Services combined in to one route numbered 207, which passes to Stagecoach West.
95 (Faresaver) Timetable change.
228/231/271-3/X31/X83-5/X88 (Faresaver) Timetable change.
515 (Big Lemon) Timetable change.
532 (Eurocoaches) Withdrawn.
768 from E-Zec to Via (which i suspect is just an administrative change).
Bath City/Skyline Tours operated by High Experiences (City Sightseeing) and First will have a co-ordinated timetable.