Yugoslavia ceased to be in 1992.
The original Yugoslavia, yes, but apparently the name was still used for Serbia and Montenegro until 2003.
Yugoslavia ceased to be in 1992.
The problem isnt in how Iran would react, we know how they would, radicalised people who have a very good reason to hate the west, it would be cells of terrorists, who target soft targets in every western city, Everyone regardless of if you supported Trump will be in their eyes a target, Trump will be long since gone, but the threat will still be there, If the Western world had any sense, they would cut all ties with the US, the moment bombs start to fall on Iran.Yugoslavia ceased to be in 1992.
Yugoslavia ceased to be in 1992.
The original Yugoslavia, yes, but apparently the name was still used for Serbia and Montenegro until 2003.
If everyone remembers, there was an agreement between many western countries and Iran to monitor their nuclear programme. But some reckless president came into power and wreaked that by taking his country out of that.The problem isnt in how Iran would react, we know how they would, radicalised people who have a very good reason to hate the west, it would be cells of terrorists, who target soft targets in every western city, Everyone regardless of if you supported Trump will be in their eyes a target, Trump will be long since gone, but the threat will still be there, If the Western world had any sense, they would cut all ties with the US, the moment bombs start to fall on Iran.
That damned Obama! It's always his fault.If everyone remembers, there was an agreement between many western countries and Iran to monitor their nuclear programme. But some reckless president came into power and wreaked that by taking his country out of that.
#MAGALogic
Not even no-name local journos. Don Lemon is a pretty big-hitter to be arresting.Journalts now being arrested for covering a demonstration at a church...
Attorney General Pam Bondi confirmed Fort and Lemon’s arrests on social media.
“At my direction, early this morning federal agents arrested Don Lemon, Trahern Jeen Crews, Georgia Fort, and Jamael Lydell Lundy, in connection with the coordinated attack on Cities Church in St. Paul, Minnesota,”.
This proves, I think, that the US is now effectively run as a tyranny with no freedom of speech for some. First Amendment? Only if you are right-wing or far-right, it appears.Journalts now being arrested for covering a demonstration at a church...
Attorney General Pam Bondi confirmed Fort and Lemon’s arrests on social media.
“At my direction, early this morning federal agents arrested Don Lemon, Trahern Jeen Crews, Georgia Fort, and Jamael Lydell Lundy, in connection with the coordinated attack on Cities Church in St. Paul, Minnesota,”.
Firstly, the US federally does not give a crap about tourism, if they did they wouldn't have stayed shut for spurious Covid reasons for almost two years.Time for people to cancel any planned US holidays this summer, I feel. The Federal US needs to be shown that the rest of the world does not approve of its actions.
That would be wrong. However, what wouldn't be wrong is determining that a visitor is overly invested in US politics in general. No country has to admit a visitor, and in these febrile times someone with incredibly strong views, who might partake in disorder, is a risk.would consider it dangerous for anyone who is at all critical of the regime to visit there right now, as there is a risk that some authoritarian border guard might start sniffing through your personal devices to check you're "on-message", and then throw you in a cell if you've robustly criticised ICE or the Federal apparatus.
I love how Bondi and others have been parroting lines like "Jesus would never disrupt a church event in protest against the church leaders".Journalts now being arrested for covering a demonstration at a church...
Attorney General Pam Bondi confirmed Fort and Lemon’s arrests on social media.
“At my direction, early this morning federal agents arrested Don Lemon, Trahern Jeen Crews, Georgia Fort, and Jamael Lydell Lundy, in connection with the coordinated attack on Cities Church in St. Paul, Minnesota,”.
Except that if there's less tourism, people might start pressuring the government to behave itself.Firstly, the US federally does not give a crap about tourism, if they did they wouldn't have stayed shut for spurious Covid reasons for almost two years.
Secondly, refusing to visit a place because you don't like the government harms the people and businesses you wish to support, not the government. If you were going to boycott travel because you don't agree with how the country behaves, there are many better candidates than the US in the list. It's just not how I approach global travel.
There was zero tourism from the UK/Europe throughout 2021, despite the Covid risk being as low as it was going to get near the start of that year once the US vulnerable population was vaccinated.Except that if there's less tourism, people might start pressuring the government to behave itself.
It is true that all countries have the absolute right to deny entry to those who might pose a risk, however I will also be avoiding the USA for the time being for a couple of reasons.No country has to admit a visitor, and in these febrile times someone with incredibly strong views, who might partake in disorder, is a risk.
Link: https://www.whitehouse.gov/presiden...c-terrorism-and-organized-political-violence/Common threads animating this violent conduct include anti-Americanism, anti-capitalism, and anti-Christianity; support for the overthrow of the United States Government; extremism on migration, race, and gender; and hostility towards those who hold traditional American views on family, religion, and morality.
Link: https://afsc.org/news/how-ices-detention-system-makes-people-untraceableWhat we are witnessing in states like Texas, Florida, and across the country is the emergence of a new model of immigration detention. Some state-run facilities, like “Alligator Alcatraz,” operate more like extrajudicial sites than traditional detention centers. They function with little public visibility, minimal accountability, and practices that fall far short of any basic standard of humane treatment, making what was already a terrible system even worse.
Across these cases, the failures are consistent. People disappear from public records for days or weeks. Internal transfers occur quietly across state lines. Agencies refuse to disclose any basic information, and medical care and phone access vary drastically between facilities.
These past few months have made one truth painfully clear: People are not going missing in the detention system. They are being disappeared by it.
You honestly believe it's OK to prevent someone entering the US who is "overly interested in US politics"?That would be wrong. However, what wouldn't be wrong is determining that a visitor is overly invested in US politics in general. No country has to admit a visitor, and in these febrile times someone with incredibly strong views, who might partake in disorder, is a risk.
Yes, and I'd apply that to any country. The key word being "overly"; interested in it beyond any implications to one's own country.You honestly believe it's OK to prevent someone entering the US who is "overly interested in US politics"?
I do actually somewhat agree with this, and think this would be a better model for the world - but it's not the world we live in. Restricting visitors is a politically very easy thing to do, and as 2021 (and 2022-2023 in some cases!) demonstrated, a good reason is not needed.I don't go along with the principle of "no country has to admit a visitor". I would argue the opposite from a moral standpoint: a civilised Western country needs to provide a good reason not to admit a visitor.
I don't have a problem with countries being free to deny entry - the ability to visit another country is a privilege rather than a right - but equally you are correct that countries generally benefit from having more accommodating border policies that encourage interaction and sharing of culture between their peoples.I don't go along with the principle of "no country has to admit a visitor". I would argue the opposite from a moral standpoint: a civilised Western country needs to provide a good reason not to admit a visitor.
I would. That is denying someone entry based on nothing more than the views that they hold and express, and the people they are friends with. Freedom of expression has to apply to everyone or it doesn't mean anything for anyone.If someone arrived in the UK, and had a phone full of strong-minded (but not illegal) alt-right content targeted toward the UK despite not being connected to the UK, plans to meet like-minded friends, and posted every day on social media about Sadiq Khan despite having no connections to London, I would have no problem with them being refused admission (with certain exceptions such as being on a special journalism Visa).
You make very good points. I must admit it is something that concerns me, although I still view the US as a low risk country - these stories are notable precisely because the US was formerly so adherent to process and this is becoming less applicable; plenty of other countries I bidit have never had due process in the first place. I would also have confidence it would eventually resolve itself eventually with a deportation, as compared to somewhere like Singapore or Thailand where you can end up imprisoned or sentenced to death because someone put illegal drugs in your bag.These two factors - that what constitutes unsuitability for entry is nebulous at best, and that people get stuck in the system - provide enough reason for me not to want to visit.
That's a fair take! I think I disagree, since lots of other rights are restricted to citizens, and using information as a one-time picture to determine admissibility is different from rounding someone up on the street because of what they said, but I understand where you're coming from.Freedom of expression has to apply to everyone or it doesn't mean anything for anyone.
I have no issue with governments using social media postings, etc as one factor in the decision to deny entry. Using your example above:I think I disagree, since lots of other rights are restricted to citizens, and using information as a one-time picture to determine admissibility is different from rounding someone up on the street because of what they said, but I understand where you're coming from.
If you were to add "and previous arrests/prosecutions for anti-government activities" then I'd support denying them entry.If someone arrived in the UK, and had a phone full of strong-minded (but not illegal) alt-right content targeted toward the UK despite not being connected to the UK, plans to meet like-minded friends, and posted every day on social media about Sadiq Khan despite having no connections to London...
If we refuse to admit Mr Smith from Canada because of the views about the UK that they have expressed (and can prove that they have expressed those views) - we are not denying them freedom of expression - just making it clear that that freedom comes with responsibilities. Other than in very specific circumstances (primarily those laid down by the conventions on asylum),no one has (nor should have) an automatic right to enter any country other their own. That said - "merely" criticising the regime / head of state should not be grounds for such exclusion - but making it clear that one has no respect for the rule of law in that country (for example) might well [in my eyes].I would. That is denying someone entry based on nothing more than the views that they hold and express, and the people they are friends with. Freedom of expression has to apply to everyone or it doesn't mean anything for anyone.
I disagree. If they haven't incited violence, advocated for the overthrow of the government, stated an intent to participate in illegal actions, or similar then denying them entry simply because we don't like what they've said sets a very bad precedent.If we refuse to admit Mr Smith from Canada because of the views about the UK that they have expressed (and can prove that they have expressed those views) - we are not denying them freedom of expression - just making it clear that that freedom comes with responsibilities. Other than in very specific circumstances (primarily those laid down by the conventions on asylum),no one has (nor should have) an automatic right to enter any country other their own. That said - "merely" criticising the regime / head of state should not be grounds for such exclusion - but making it clear that one has no respect for the rule of law in that country (for example) might well [in my eyes].
I don't have a problem with countries being free to deny entry - the ability to visit another country is a privilege rather than a right - but equally you are correct that countries generally benefit from having more accommodating border policies that encourage interaction and sharing of culture between their peoples.
If they had a phone full of anti-Starmer, anti-Labour, anti-Khan and anti-woke rants, and that was the end of the matter, then yes, I'd have no problem them being here. They would not be a very nice person (to put it mildly) but that is not a reason to put travel restrictions on an individual. Otherwise you are essentially denying them freedom of speech.If someone arrived in the UK, and had a phone full of strong-minded (but not illegal) alt-right content targeted toward the UK despite not being connected to the UK, plans to meet like-minded friends, and posted every day on social media about Sadiq Khan despite having no connections to London, I would have no problem with them being refused admission (with certain exceptions such as being on a special journalism Visa). That has nothing to do with politics, it's just the profile of someone not visiting purely for tourism reasons. It's a risk countries have to accept from citizens, but it's not one they have accept from visitors.
And therein lies the problem. Tourists it appears have no rights in these situations. There needs to be scope for a tourist to challenge (legally if necessary) a border guard who has treated them unfairly. For other authority figures, such as the police, there is normally recourse a person can use if they believe they have been unfairly treated; why should it be different for tourists and border guards?Their case was probably borderline, but the meme rubbed the officer up the wrong way.
Yes, and I'd apply that to any country. The key word being "overly"; interested in it beyond any implications to one's own country.
From watching various fly-on-the-wall series in border control in the UK, Canada and Australia, while a decision to admit is entirely up to the border guard, decisions to deny entry have to be reviewed/approved by a more senior officer. So it should rarely come down to one person with a grudge.But doesn't that mean border guards with an "attitude" could deny entry for the most arbitrary of reasons? Anything from sexuality, gender identity, political views, race, or nationality to something as arbitrary as the way you look, your accent, or the colour of your hair? Presumably if foreigners do indeed have no rights, the border guards of any country have an absolute right to deny entry to foreigners for any of these reasons (rather like a pub landlord can bar people for no particular reason), and the foreigner has no recourse to challenge the decision (which seems to me very wrong)?
I suppose here in the UK, foreign visitors from a good number countries have an easier time as they can use the automated gates and avoid the border guards entirely. Thus, a computer program (which one might think is objective) would be responsible for denying entry, which means it could presumably only happen for legitimate reasons.From watching various fly-on-the-wall series in border control in the UK, Canada and Australia, while a decision to admit is entirely up to the border guard, decisions to deny entry have to be reviewed/approved by a more senior officer. So it should rarely come down to one person with a grudge.
Anti-capitalism?However, bringing it back specifically to the USA, the issue is that the grounds for which someone might be deemed inadmissible appear to be quite broad if one assumes that they apply similar standards to those they apply to their own citizens. Again, the administration has stated that "anti-Americanism", "anti-capitalism", and "anti-Christianity" are grounds to be classed as a domestic terrorist.
I wasn't intending to imply that one was more or less reasonable than the other, in fact I think we're on the same page in thinking travel should be something of a right! (Even though I understand that it is not). I merely used it to show that the US is in a unique position in terms of being non-reliant on international tourism (as the vast majority of their travel and leisure spending, something like 90%, is domestic).Why were Covid travel restrictions unreasonable yet restrictions based on opinions on a country's politics reasonable? While I thought the former were excessive, I'd say they were less unreasonable than the latter.
I think in the first half of your sentence, you are effectively agreeing with my assertion! Given the choice between the border guard deciding to admit (or referring for confirmation but saying they probably feel ok about it), and a border guard referring to a supervisor with a view to deny, one is obviously best to hope for the first outcome.while a decision to admit is entirely up to the border guard, decisions to deny entry have to be reviewed/approved by a more senior officer
Is the US really so non-reliant on international tourism? While it's not unusual to see "Visit <insert country of choice>" adverts at this time of year, it's only recently that I've really noticed "Visit USA" adverts.I merely used it to show that the US is in a unique position in terms of being non-reliant on international tourism (as the vast majority of their travel and leisure spending, something like 90%, is domestic).