London Underground and TfL Fast Trains

[The exile]

Or:

“Do you want a fast service twice an hour, or a stopping service that takes 10 minutes longer every five minutes?”

That’s the more neutral version, yes!

 

[Horizon22]

Ignore me, I forgot what time of year it is, they’re scheduled to take longer over Christmas/NY it seems (first image is 01/12/2025, second image is today)

Yes there’s still a block on the Main lines right now so 2-track railway sharing with the Elizabeth line.

 

[Instinct04]

I don't think anyone has suggested the Reading services should serve all stations though, just that the Elizabeth Line stopping patterns in West London should be simplified down to only two patterns, either all stations or "semi-fast" skipping Acton ML, West Ealing and Hanwell - all Reading/Maidenhead services would fall into the semi-fast category. Also bear in mind the current peak time "fasts" which run non-stop from Ealing Broadway to West Drayton are timetabled to take exactly the same amount of time as the standard services stopping at Southall and Hayes do, so there isn't any time penalty from this simplification anyway.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Dec 2025 ==


Maidenhead is only a couple of miles further out than Shenfield, so Maidenhead and Shenfield are a fair equivalency - Maidenhead to Reading is really only a part of the Elizabeth Line for local connections to/from West London, as well as operational convenience.

I don’t mean to go back to such an old post, but I am very curious as to why fast lizzy trains between West Drayton and Ealing Broadway don’t pick up extra stops if there is zero time penalty.

 

[renegademaster]

London Underground is anything but over-engineered.

'Fast lines' do exist on/around London Underground, albeit indirectly.

- The Metropolitan line acts as the Jubilee line's fast lines between Finchley Road and Wembley Park
- The Victoria line acts as the Piccadilly line's fast lines
- The Piccadilly line acts as the District line's fast lines between Acton Town and Hammersmith
- C2C acts as the District line's fast lines between West Ham and Upminster
- The Elizabeth line acts as the Central line's fast lines between the West End and Stratford

And of course the Metropolitan line does have its own four-tracking between Wembley Park and Moor Park.

And Chiltern is kinda a fast line of the Mets fast line

 

[Mgameing123]

I don’t mean to go back to such an old post, but I am very curious as to why fast lizzy trains between West Drayton and Ealing Broadway don’t pick up extra stops if there is zero time penalty.

It’s because I’m pretty sure they’re timetabled to run right behind an all stations train to Heathrow so there would be a time penalty if the trains were to stop at Southall and Hayes & Harlington.

 

[Horizon22]

I don’t mean to go back to such an old post, but I am very curious as to why fast lizzy trains between West Drayton and Ealing Broadway don’t pick up extra stops if there is zero time penalty.

It's somewhat historical - these trains used to be run by GWR - even when TfL Rail and the first part of the Elizabeth line ran and those "fast Readings" (note the lack of Langley too) were seen as politically / reputationally quite important as they had transferred across and people were a little worried about the impact of a metro-focussed, TFL operation taking serving peak, fast trains into areas outside of London, so the calling patterns remained the same. It is something of a fudge, considering there's a fair bit of pathing time (see below). But 387s from Paddington run on the Mains now as far as Slough (occasionally West Drayton, but of course not stopping) as the capacity just isn't there otherwise, so there wasn't really another option.

It’s because I’m pretty sure they’re timetabled to run right behind an all stations train to Heathrow so there would be a time penalty if the trains were to stop at Southall and Hayes & Harlington.

Correct, they run behind a T4 by just a few minutes. As one example, here's 9H76 with 9R78 (9Y77 having terminated at Paddington) a few minutes behind and with 4.5 minutes of pathing time beteween Ealing Broadway and West Drayton. So it could theoretically have another stop, but it would invoke unreliability. Both Southall and Hayes and Harlington wouldn't be possible.

Outer Thames Valley commuters do prefer these trains (there's a 'normal' Reading stopper 5 minutes later from Paddington), even if they are not that fast and pathing at this time of day becomes critical.

 

[martin butler]

The only fast LU service i even knew was on the Met line to and from Amersham, If I recall correctly, once you got past Harrow on the hill, It did not call at many stations, as there were other routes that joined and they tended to be all the stopping at all station ones,

 

[Sad Sprinter]

The only fast LU service i even knew was on the Met line to and from Amersham, If I recall correctly, once you got past Harrow on the hill, It did not call at many stations, as there were other routes that joined and they tended to be all the stopping at all station ones,

I really wish they’d make the Metropolitan Line a proper fast service again. What a waste to four track it and only use it during the peaks.

 

[Mgameing123]

It's somewhat historical - these trains used to be run by GWR - even when TfL Rail and the first part of the Elizabeth line ran and those "fast Readings" (note the lack of Langley too) were seen as politically / reputationally quite important as they had transferred across and people were a little worried about the impact of a metro-focussed, TFL operation taking serving peak, fast trains into areas outside of London, so the calling patterns remained the same. It is something of a fudge, considering there's a fair bit of pathing time (see below). But 387s from Paddington run on the Mains now as far as Slough (occasionally West Drayton, but of course not stopping) as the capacity just isn't there otherwise, so there wasn't really another option.



Correct, they run behind a T4 by just a few minutes. As one example, here's 9H76 with 9R78 (9Y77 having terminated at Paddington) a few minutes behind and with 4.5 minutes of pathing time beteween Ealing Broadway and West Drayton. So it could theoretically have another stop, but it would invoke unreliability. Both Southall and Hayes and Harlington wouldn't be possible.

Outer Thames Valley commuters do prefer these trains (there's a 'normal' Reading stopper 5 minutes later from Paddington), even if they are not that fast and pathing at this time of day becomes critical.

It's somewhat historical - these trains used to be run by GWR - even when TfL Rail and the first part of the Elizabeth line ran and those "fast Readings" (note the lack of Langley too) were seen as politically / reputationally quite important as they had transferred across and people were a little worried about the impact of a metro-focussed, TFL operation taking serving peak, fast trains into areas outside of London, so the calling patterns remained the same. It is something of a fudge, considering there's a fair bit of pathing time (see below). But 387s from Paddington run on the Mains now as far as Slough (occasionally West Drayton, but of course not stopping) as the capacity just isn't there otherwise, so there wasn't really another option.



Correct, they run behind a T4 by just a few minutes. As one example, here's 9H76 with 9R78 (9Y77 having terminated at Paddington) a few minutes behind and with 4.5 minutes of pathing time beteween Ealing Broadway and West Drayton. So it could theoretically have another stop, but it would invoke unreliability. Both Southall and Hayes and Harlington wouldn't be possible.

Outer Thames Valley commuters do prefer these trains (there's a 'normal' Reading stopper 5 minutes later from Paddington), even if they are not that fast and pathing at this time of day becomes critical.

Yeah you can tell when you take these services because between Ealing Broadway and West Drayton, you always end up stuck behind a red signal and train is always moving at a sluggish pace.

 

[Instinct04]

Yeah you can tell when you take these services because between Ealing Broadway and West Drayton, you always end up stuck behind a red signal and train is always moving at a sluggish pace.

Could capacity be better used if the West Drayton - Ealing Broadway fast trains were removed?

I don’t see the point of them if they are just going to run behind a stopper all the way.

Now I see why the GN outers have added Alexandra Palace, (although I would have added New Barnet instead).

Fast trains on slow lines do not work.

 

[Horizon22]

Could capacity be better used if the West Drayton - Ealing Broadway fast trains were removed?

To be replaced with what? It would just be another Elizabeth line service anyway, and these fast trains are in the high peak so this is maximising capacity really.

You'd have to rejig the entire timetable, which might happen in a couple of years anyway.

 

[Farnborough]

Reading peak time extras don’t stop at:

Acton Mainline, West Ealing, Hanwell, Southall, Hayes & Harlington, Iver, Burnham and Taplow

The lack of a H&H stop is particularly irritating, as it's the interchange from LHR to Reading

Changing again at Maindenhead is an unnecessary complication, especially the extra wait.