keyGo on SWR / Tap2Go on GTR (reciprocal arrangements)

[Edvid]

keyGo (GTR PAYG scheme)

Where can I use keyGo?
keyGo can also be used on [...] South Western Railway services between Dorking and Clapham Junction.

Tap2Go (SWR PAYG scheme)

Where can I use Tap2Go?
Your Tap2Go smartcard may also be used to travel on Southern services between Dorking and London Victoria or Dorking to London Bridge. You may also use Southern services to start or end your journey at the following stations: Box Hill & Westhumble; Leatherhead; Ashtead; Epsom and Clapham Junction.

I'm curious about how far the arrangements extend where certain intermediate stations are concerned. London Victoria & London Bridge aside, use of a TOC PAYG scheme at stations not served by the associated TOC isn't explicitly mentioned.

Would Tap2Go be valid on GTR from, say, Cheam to Balham or Ewell East to Waddon?
Would keyGo be valid on SWR from, say, Ewell West to Raynes Park?

 

[chalky80]

Attempting to answer this myself thinking "surely this must be stated somewhere" but even a detailed read of the terms and conditions of each card leaves the situation ambiguous. The only indicator I could find is the map on the SWR site (https://www.southwesternrailway.com/train-tickets/tap2go) which specifically has red-dots for stations where you can "travel to/from...using southern" and only shows the Epsom-Dorking portion plus Clapham, Victoria and London Bridge. That to me is a strong implication that you can't tap at the intermediate stations Epsom-Victoria via Sutton with an SWR tap2go enabled card.

Did you contact customer services for either TOC?

 

[Edvid]

Did you contact customer services for either TOC?

Yes, I sent direct messages to both via Twitter.

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Message to GTR
Good evening

I understand that keyGo can be used on South Western Railway services between Dorking and Clapham Junction.

Does this mean I am permitted to tap on/off at any SWR station *on that particular route* (including stations not served by GTR) with keyGo?

GTR reply
Hello, yes if you are travelling on that line of route you are able to tap on and off as you would normally
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Message to SWR
Good evening

Besides London Victoria / London Bridge, is Tap2Go valid to tap on/off at other Southern stations north of Epsom (e.g. Mitcham Junction, West Croydon) not served by SWR?

SWR reply
Hi, your Tap2Go smartcard may be used to travel on Southern services between Dorking and London Victoria or Dorking to London Bridge. You may also use Southern services to start or end your journey at the following stations: Box Hill & Westhumble; Leatherhead; Ashtead; Epsom and Clapham Junction

2nd message to SWR
Tap2Go being valid at those two London termini despite not being served by SWR is already known to me.

Specifically, I wish to know if *intermediate* Southern-only journeys on the Dorking-London line of route (e.g. Cheam-Balham) are also valid with Tap2Go.

2nd SWR reply
Yes you can, as it is on the same route from from Victoria to Dorking
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So it looks like the answer to both questions is yes, assuming the gates & validators are set up correctly. If I have cause to visit Raynes Park-Ewell West or Earlsfield, I'll test keyGo's validity at those specific stations whilst carrying a paper Day Travelcard as backup since I live on the other side of the London commuter belt anyway.

 

[chalky80]

Interesting and thanks. I remain suitably sceptical. I may be able test the inverse case in the near future, as I need to trundle up towards Sutton and will go armed with a tap2go.

 

[Edvid]

Come to think of it, it's odd that Tap2Go can be used at certain 'keyGo' London termini but the reverse doesn't apply. Perhaps it's easier to define agreeable contract terms between a scheme owner and neighbouring 'guests' for a TOC PAYG scheme handled by the central RDG HOPS* (please correct me if I'm wrong) than one handled by GTR's own HOPS.*

[* Host Operator or Processing System]

 

[Edvid]

Tried to start a keyGo journey at Earlsfield today and it didn't work.

My guess is GTR only agreed its acceptance with SWR for travel to/from stations that GTR serve on the recent keyGo extension (i.e. Wimbledon & Clapham Junction) and failed to make clear that SWR-only stations don't accept it.

 

[chalky80]

Useful to know. It was I think predictable but still disappointing given the interleaved services between London and Epsom/Dorking.

 

[Haywain]

still disappointing given the interleaved services between London and Epsom/Dorking.

Maybe slightly disappointing but no different to other areas where it is not valid on another TOC's services, such as EMR between London and Bedford.