Chiltern MK5s Starting 2026 (non speculative updates thread)

[CR165022]

Why would they need to? The Mk5s are intended for the Birmingham services so would just use the through platforms.

That's true however if there's disruption, 168 services heading to London usually get put into Platform 4 and held there.

 

[sammyg901]

So these new trains will actually reduce capacity in the short term then? Seeing as they insist on operating first class carriages, despite their paying customers being crammed in like cattle for the last 5 years.

Surely it would make sense to hold off the sale of first class tickets until the full fleet of new trains is operational?

I believe these new trains are only 5 carriages. With one of them being first class that leaves only 4. If you consider that for the last year, even 6 carriage services don't have the capacity. I fear that things are going to get a lot worse in the short term before they get better.

I am not a regular traveller on the mainline across the day but I don't foresee a big challenge on the longer distance services once the timetabling is tweaked in December to move some of the nearer to London stops onto other lengthened / additional services (e.g. Bicester North / Haddenham & Thame Parkway). At the moment the 1637 was never full on the MK3 even shortened to 5 car , haven't used yet but sure it is fine as 4+1 cars.

Weekend mornings is actually when I see the most overcrowding at the moment and it'll be interesting to see what they do about that , surely will end up seeing Banbury and maybe even further north express services into London unless they can keep these as long 165/168s

 

[BanburyBlue]

Why would they need to? The Mk5s are intended for the Birmingham services so would just use the through platforms.

Well, the updated layout was designed to have bi-directional platforms for flexibility etc for when things go wrong. For example, fairly recently during signalling issues, trains were terminating short at Banbury with additional services to London starting from Banbury. So in the normal course of events they won't, but in times of disruption it may happen/

 

[150219]

Well, the updated layout was designed to have bi-directional platforms for flexibility etc for when things go wrong. For example, fairly recently during signalling issues, trains were terminating short at Banbury with additional services to London starting from Banbury. So in the normal course of events they won't, but in times of disruption it may happen/

I can't imagine it occuring in passenger service, but there's an exception to every exception. Better to say not on a timetabled basis. For clarity as referred to by @PLY2AYS the train is longer than the platform face.

 

[800002]

Will these new trains fit into Platform 4 at Banbury? My understanding was Platform 4 allows for a 5 carriage train - so would an 'overhanging' engine be allowed?

I've a picture somewhere of a set in P4 at Banbury.
Appears all doors platformed, plus loco.
Would need to double check, but it looked very tight.
I'd say good enough for contingency.

 

[david1212]

So these new trains will actually reduce capacity in the short term then? Seeing as they insist on operating first class carriages, despite their paying customers being crammed in like cattle for the last 5 years.

Surely it would make sense to hold off the sale of first class tickets until the full fleet of new trains is operational?

I believe these new trains are only 5 carriages. With one of them being first class that leaves only 4. If you consider that for the last year, even 6 carriage services don't have the capacity. I fear that things are going to get a lot worse in the short term before they get better.

Except the service frequency is increasing to half hourly… so overall increases seating. And by cascading rolling stock also bolsters other services which are also currently full and standing.

Except evenings there are not that many hours currently with only 1tph Birmingham > Marylebone.

....
Weekend mornings is actually when I see the most overcrowding at the moment and it'll be interesting to see what they do about that , surely will end up seeing Banbury and maybe even further north express services into London unless they can keep these as long 165/168s

Add the first couple of weekday off-peak southbound trains too.

A 6-car 168 set (~400 seats) can be full at Leamington Spa so standing from Banbury. If the MK5 sets were allocated to mid-morning onwards northbound and hence quieter lunch time and early afternoon southbound services the busy morning southbound services could potentially be extended to 8-car sets so another ~120 seats.
From page 1 In the current configuration the MK5 sets have 261 standard & 30 first class seats.

 

[PLY2AYS]

the busy morning southbound services could potentially be extended to 8-car sets so another ~120 seats.

If they’re 8 car, they’ll either need a guard/train manager or dispatch staff at all stations south of Banbury.

 

[ChooChooseMe]

If they’re 8 car, they’ll either need a guard/train manager or dispatch staff at all stations south of Banbury.

Do you mean 165s and 168s as an 8 car would need a TM or dispatch staff?

 

[PLY2AYS]

Do you mean 165s and 168s as an 8 car would need a TM or dispatch staff?

Yes.

 

[CyrusWuff]

If they’re 8 car, they’ll either need a guard/train manager or dispatch staff at all stations south of Banbury.

Are you sure about that? Looking at RTT, 1Y10 (0638 Oxford - Marylebone, due 0803) is an 8 car formation (though looks to be the only one all day.)

If it does need a TM (more likely than needing a Dispatcher, given it calls at Islip) it's got to be a fairly inefficient diagram as they're presumably either booked to travel PASS back to Banbury or to hang around at Marylebone to work the 1102 loco-hauled service to Birmingham for at least part of the journey.

Maintaining route knowledge between Oxford and Bicester South Junction will be a bit of an issue as well, given it's just that one train a day.

 

[stadler]

Does anyone know what method of guard operation that Chiltern Railways are using on the MK5A sets? Is it the Guard Open Guard Close or Driver Open Guard Close or Ten Bell Despatch methods? Also do the MK5A sets still have a guard throughout like the MK3 sets or are they DOO from South of Banbury like the 165/168/172 units?

 

[MerlinRail 804]

If they’re 8 car, they’ll either need a guard/train manager or dispatch staff at all stations south of Banbury.

Does this mean 1Y10 and 1H11 which are both 8 car are guarded all the way to London?

Does anyone know what method of guard operation that Chiltern Railways are using on the MK5A sets? Is it the Guard Open Guard Close or Driver Open Guard Close or Ten Bell Despatch methods? Also do the MK5A sets still have a guard throughout like the MK3 sets or are they DOO from South of Banbury like the 165/168/172 units?

Not sure of the despatch method but I’m pretty they’re guarded the whole way to London

 

[BanburyBlue]

Does anyone know what method of guard operation that Chiltern Railways are using on the MK5A sets? Is it the Guard Open Guard Close or Driver Open Guard Close or Ten Bell Despatch methods? Also do the MK5A sets still have a guard throughout like the MK3 sets or are they DOO from South of Banbury like the 165/168/172 units?

I was at Banbury the other day when a Mk5 set was leaving, and I saw the train manager on the platform waiting for permission to depart from the platform staff, very similar to how it looks for the XC trains.

 

[PLY2AYS]

Does this mean 1Y10 and 1H11 which are both 8 car are guarded all the way to London?

Apologies, provided there are monitors, that’s an acceptable method of working too. 8 cars is just too long to self-dispatch without assistance from either guard/TM/platform staff or platform equipment.
But it does limit the stopping pattern when you run 8 cars. Obviously due to platform lengths and availability of dispatch equipment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jan 2026 ==

Are you sure about that? Looking at RTT, 1Y10 (0638 Oxford - Marylebone, due 0803) is an 8 car formation (though looks to be the only one all day.)

Presumably this will be departing from Platforms 3 or 4 at Oxford as it can’t fit in 1 or 2.

Hope my above explanation helps.
Platform monitors prevent the need for extra staff.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

Apologies, provided there are monitors, that’s an acceptable method of working too. 8 cars is just too long to self-dispatch without assistance from either guard/TM/platform staff or platform equipment.
But it does limit the stopping pattern when you run 8 cars. Obviously due to platform lengths and availability of dispatch equipment.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jan 2026 ==


Presumably this will be departing from Platforms 3 or 4 at Oxford as it can’t fit in 1 or 2.

Hope my above explanation helps.
Platform monitors prevent the need for extra staff.

Ah I see. Thanks. Stupid question but do mirrors count or is it just monitors?

 

[PLY2AYS]

Ah I see. Thanks. Stupid question but do mirrors count or is it just monitors?

Mirrors aren’t an agreed or safe method of working for anything over 7 cars on Chiltern.

 

[800002]

I was at Banbury the other day when a Mk5 set was leaving, and I saw the train manager on the platform waiting for permission to depart from the platform staff, very similar to how it looks for the XC trains.

Ah I see. Thanks. Stupid question but do mirrors count or is it just monitors?

Talking to someone at a station.
They dispatch any Chiltern 8 car and LHCS.
XC are also dispatched.
All can self dispatch via on board crew in degraded operation (when a dispatcher goes sick).

That is Banbury, Northwards.
Unsurprisingly, as we know, Chiltern is DOO south of Banbury.
LHCS always operates with Train Manager throughout a passenger trip. They dispatch anywhere that has a long enough platform (SDO isn't really used on Mk3s, except for the recent Warwick Platform work and some stations north of Snow Hill).

Drivers use mirrors or DOO monitors on platforms to dispatch.
As said earlier. Mirrors are good up till 7 cars. But not every mirror can accommodate that due to positioning / magnification (I believe).
DOO monitors are in place for upto 9 vehicles, Platform permitting.

At Banbury (mentioned earlier).
Everything going north gets dispatched.
Anything heading south is look back (by driver). Up to 7 vehicles.
8s / LHCS / XC get the dispatcher (platforms 1 and 3).
Believe Platform 2 is CD / RA, from dispatcher.
Platform 4 is DOO monitors (5 cars).

 

[168lover]

How are units over 7 coaches dispatched south of Banbury? Regularly get 8/9 coach trains in the peaks

 

[RPM]

How are units over 7 coaches dispatched south of Banbury? Regularly get 8/9 coach trains in the peaks

As long as all subsequent stops have cameras and monitors, they can operate in DOO mode. Otherwise they either have to have a guard or run non-stop from Banbury.

 

[PLY2AYS]

Talking to someone at a station.
They dispatch any Chiltern 8 car and LHCS.
XC are also dispatched.
All can self dispatch via on board crew in degraded operation (when a dispatcher goes sick).

That is Banbury, Northwards.
Unsurprisingly, as we know, Chiltern is DOO south of Banbury.
LHCS always operates with Train Manager throughout a passenger trip. They dispatch anywhere that has a long enough platform (SDO isn't really used on Mk3s, except for the recent Warwick Platform work and some stations north of Snow Hill).

Drivers use mirrors or DOO monitors on platforms to dispatch.
As said earlier. Mirrors are good up till 7 cars. But not every mirror can accommodate that due to positioning / magnification (I believe).
DOO monitors are in place for upto 9 vehicles, Platform permitting.

At Banbury (mentioned earlier).
Everything going north gets dispatched.
Anything heading south is look back (by driver). Up to 7 vehicles.
8s / LHCS / XC get the dispatcher (platforms 1 and 3).
Believe Platform 2 is CD / RA, from dispatcher.
Platform 4 is DOO monitors (5 cars).

Bang on the money.

Thanks for explaining all of that so succinctly!

 

[800002]

How are units over 7 coaches dispatched south of Banbury? Regularly get 8/9 coach trains in the peaks

As long as all subsequent stops have cameras and monitors, they can operate in DOO mode. Otherwise they either have to have a guard or run non-stop from Banbury.

Providing the platform accommodates all vehicles which are open, the train can call there and use the DOO monitors to depart with upto 9 vehicles.

The guards only work LHCS south of Banbury, so yes. If the train is too long to call it will sail on by at (one hopes) line speed.

Bang on the money.

Thanks for explaining all of that so succinctly!

No worries. Happy to help.

 

[CR165022]

Just seen a photo of a singular Chiltern liveried DT at Long Marston, so unless 12802 has been reliveried while it's been stored there, it's likely that it's finally been moved to Eastleigh in a full set and the DT from that set has been taken out. The one in the photo doesn't have a gangway attached either, which is odd.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Just seen a photo of a singular Chiltern liveried DT at Long Marston, so unless 12802 has been reliveried while it's been stored there, it's likely that it's finally been moved to Eastleigh in a full set and the DT from that set has been taken out. The one in the photo doesn't have a gangway attached either, which is odd.

Answer from back up this thread just over a month ago.

It's definitely 12802 now in set CH06.

Go to 3:40 at the below.

And posts around it.

 

[tfw756rider]

Here’s the video for anyone interested:

I like modern trains (despite their flaws), but bear in mind that with Green Signals, though they do sometimes cover some bad points (and even sometimes question some bad points with some of the Train Operating Company Managing Directors who they interview), it has been said that they won't necessarily bring up all bad points, to stay on the good sides of the companies.

Several other videos on the entry-to-service of these trains have been uploaded to YouTube, but those also seem to be from a positive point of view (which I try to have), but there's a guy from mainland Europe who has so far, on his channel, done 9 video reviews of trains on the British railway network. What I like about these videos of his is, whether I agree with his opinions or not, he "tells is as it is". If he thinks that something's excellent/good/OK/poor/horrible, he'll say exactly that.

With that said, here's @IntercitySimon's take on these trains:

(and yes, I will soon be trying out these horrible trains with my own riding on them )

 

[FrontSideBus]

Lol 18 seconds into that second video perfectly captures the "CAF bogie rattle" common to all Civities which really does sound (and feel) like something is broken!
I agree with pretty much everything that guy says from my experience with them in TPE service. I hate 397 for exactly the same reasons too.

 

[CR165022]

There's a second set out today. Not sure on loco but CH02 is out alongside 68029/CH13. CH02 replaced AL04 at Birmingham earlier in the day.

 

[37052 xb mr]

There's a second set out today. Not sure on loco but CH02 is out alongside 68029/CH13. CH02 replaced AL04 at Birmingham earlier in the day.

022 on set 2

 

[VauxhallNova]

I am very interested to see whether these sets are able to perform reliably.

Chiltern seem to actually want to run these trains, which is a good sign!

 

[Kite159]

So I presume the two 'all day' diagrams have now switched to the Mk5s leaving the Mk3s for the peak hour only services? (The ones which sit at Wembley during the day)

 

[Techniquest]

I guess they have, which makes sense at this stage of the replacement.

I know it’s probably been asked, however I really haven’t been following this thread for long. So I must ask (and feel free to link the post mentioning it if necessary):

Which 68s are permitted to work with Chiltern?