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[talldave]

A quick comment on Favourites. When you edit a Favourite (web interface on phone), the blue button to save your changes is called "Edit favourite" which is not intuitive at all. I would suggest "Save" or "Save changes"?

Seeing an "Edit favourite" button when you've already selected Edit to get to the Edit Favourite screen is disconcerting!

 

[styles]

In case anyone is wondering, I worked this out.

My VPN client blocks the Google Analystics tracker and sentry.services.trainsplit.com/api/3/envelope/?... It seems that the Trainsplit sites fail to finish loading if there's a problem initialising the sentry tracker. I'll ping them an email.

Forgot to update but this works fine for me now. Same VPN, same endpoints, same browser, same browser extensions.

Maybe it was just a blip!

 

[Egg Centric]

A couple of bits of feedback of latest booking. For the benefit of people using screen readers, I will describe the pertinent features of the screenshots in the post so there are not separate descriptions.

The journey in question is Durham - Kings Cross, Sunday 15th - Wednesday 18th, 2 with a two together railcard, first class, no particularly exciting requirements in the search although as there is a toddler too plus I am cheap there are a couple of splits each way. On Sunday there is scheduled disruption which likely contributes to some of this too.



This is not quite my booking because I lost the screenshot I originally took and the price slightly increased. Nevertheless it shows a surprisingly large saving to my mind. It seems to be comparing against something costing £740.40 which doesn't seem a reasonable comparator. I assume that's something to do with the Sunday but even so? The £25 cap on the share of saving fee is probably making this immaterial but I'm not sure about that!




Going on the seat selector for the Hull Trains service heading north at 1400 on the Wednesday - I'm not sure what's going on here but it's fairly chaotic!



And indeed here when I load it up again - something else chaotic but somewhat different. Neither bear any real resemblance to the actual layout, although by looking at a seat map I've changed the numbers from the above screen shots to something that sounds good.

Plus, as others have mentioned (maybe not in this thread, but I've seen something about the 810 introduction somewhere), not being able to reserve us seats on the Sheffield-St Pancras on teh way down is a shame although I appreciate it's out of your hands. Would customer services be able to if I message them? Given the toddler we'd like to be on the same side of a table if practical.

 

[MrJeeves]

I'll answer the bits I can and leave the rest for others to answer.

My guess for the large saving and share of saving is that there is no through advance ticket for the exact journey, so it is comparing against the fully flexible fare. I haven't checked any booking or search to see what it actually shows, so hopefully someone else can do that later.

Going on the seat selector for the Hull Trains service heading north at 1400 on the Wednesday - I'm not sure what's going on here but it's fairly chaotic!

Hull Trains have seemingly added a row of seats at the top of the seat map which don't actually exist, so they can sell more counted places advance tickets.This quite simply isn't how they are supposed to do it, but we're basically powerless in preventing this at the moment.

Plus, as others have mentioned (maybe not in this thread, but I've seen something about the 810 introduction somewhere), not being able to reserve us seats on the Sheffield-St Pancras on teh way down is a shame although I appreciate it's out of your hands. Would customer services be able to if I message them? Given the toddler we'd like to be on the same side of a table if practical.

Unfortunately not. Reservations are completely nonexistent on these services as part of the 810 rollout, and you'll get no better experience asking support versus trying to make them yourself at the point of booking as they both use the same system.

 

[Egg Centric]

Hull Trains have seemingly added a row of seats at the top of the seat map which don't actually exist, so they can sell more counted places advance tickets.This quite simply isn't how they are supposed to do it, but we're basically powerless in preventing this at the moment.

Wha????

The amount of crazy hacks that you guys need to be putting in, sometimes apparently in response to other crazy hacks like the above (which from the sounds of it was due to some other limitation they were facing) should be made into a book sometime. It never ceases to amaze me how perverse the system is.

I mean, I get that it'll only sell about 30 copies but those of us who'd buy it would be very avid fans, we'd even buy it in hardback

 

[Adam Williams]

This quite simply isn't how they are supposed to do it,

I don't think there's any standard at all here for operators. They can put it in a separate coach and turn seat selection off for that coach, but they are still modelled as seats on a map with X and Y coordinates and seat/coach identifiers. S3 Passenger doesn't support virtual physical inventory properly, it just pretends they're not seats and hides the seat number.

I'm not sure what's going on here but it's fairly chaotic!

The Seat Selector has a built-in feedback form that is the ideal place to flag up problems like this, since it passes through a bunch of data along with the complaint so we can tell which operator is at fault, which RSID it is etc.

It's fine for this one because we're looking the search up anyway.. but for anything in the future!

This is not quite my booking because I lost the screenshot I originally took and the price slightly increased. Nevertheless it shows a surprisingly large saving to my mind. It seems to be comparing against something costing £740.40 which doesn't seem a reasonable comparator. I assume that's something to do with the Sunday but even so? The £25 cap on the share of saving fee is probably making this immaterial but I'm not sure about that!

Just to help us locate this search in the logs:

• Approximately when was the search issued?
• Was it issued on the forum ticketing site?
• If you happen to know the browser / IP address off the top of your head, can you DM.

 

[MrJeeves]

I don't think there's any standard at all here for operators. They can put it in a separate coach and turn seat selection off for that coach, but they are still modelled as seats on a map with X and Y coordinates and seat/coach identifiers. S3 Passenger doesn't support virtual physical inventory properly, it just pretends they're not seats and hides the seat number.

There's not, but at least most TOCs have realised throwing them in an existing coach is a silly idea!

 

[Adam Williams]

I have located the search.

My guess for the large saving and share of saving is that there is no through advance ticket for the exact journey, so it is comparing against the fully flexible fare. I haven't checked any booking or search to see what it actually shows, so hopefully someone else can do that later.

The share of saving basis was the combination of these two through fares which were the cheapest unsplit through fares considered valid for the selected outward and return:




For the inward, it looks like BFS wasn't considered because there was no availability and there is mandatory reservations w⚓y going on:



I haven't dived into the RARS logs at this point yet to tell you exactly which service is the problem; it's the sort of painful task that requires ☕️☕☕


There were indeed no relevant Advances surfaced at all though, as @MrJeeves suggested.

 

[SWT_USER]

It'll be a diagram they're expecting to reasonably shortly have 810s on, but aren't sure exactly on when they'll be introduced; those diagrams currently have seat reservations disabled (industry side, this isn't something unique to TrainSplit).

Is this still the case? Specifically for the 10:52 Sheffield to St Pancras on Sunday. I had a look on the GWR site and it appears I am able to reserve seats on other services that day but nothing is displayed for the 10:52 - I am arriving in to Sheffield at 10:33 so don't want to potentially be standing all the way to London given how busy it's likely to be with the ECML closure.

 

[Mike395]

I suspect it's still the case yes (in any case, as you found out by looking at GWR this is an industry data issue and is in no way unique to TrainSplit)

 

[Haywain]

this is an industry data issue

It's a deliberate decision by the train operator.

 

[ABB125]

If I have a flexible ticket which I no longer need, is it possible to change the travel date, or do I just need to go through the refund request process?

 

[yorkie]

If I have a flexible ticket which I no longer need, is it possible to change the travel date, or do I just need to go through the refund request process?

Book a new ticket, then refund the original

 

[Egg Centric]

Is "fully powerful" customer support around on the weekend?

(Context: re the "two together" journey I posted above the toddler part of it has caught chicken pox and there's a chance I'll need to swap the advances to a single person one as Mrs Centric and Toddler Centric stay behind but likely won't know for sure until the Saturday. From prior experience moving an advance on the website the automated process is book another and then apply for a refund of the previous one giving the new booking reference, but with how busy the ECML diversion route will be on Sunday I can imagine that this may not be available so may need human assistance)

 

[Adam Williams]

Regardless as to whether the automated system is used, I think you're going to run into issues with the passenger counts not matching if you try and go through the Change of Journey process, because the policy won't consider it a compatible rescheduled journey.

Given the toddler is unwell (hopefully they recover soon!), the simplest bet may be to just refund the whole lot under the Medical policy (would need paperwork of some sort [GP/pharmacy/some other AHP] sent over, I'm afraid). If this is timed properly, there's every chance the reservations will be released back and that Advance tier will then be available for re-purchase after that refund is processed (reservations are cancelled immediately) but appreciate it's a faff.

There's no easy way to reuse a previous reservation and convert into an undiscounted ticket, unfortunately. It's already been settled in LENNON and the reservation will have the wrong discount status code for a normal Adult ticket set against it in the reservation system.

I am personally of the view that this wasn't really thought through properly when the Two Together Railcard conditions were thought up, some sort of process probably should've been put in place for exceptional circumstances.

 

[Egg Centric]

Regardless as to whether the automated system is used, I think you're going to run into issues with the passenger counts not matching if you try and go through the Change of Journey process, because the policy won't consider it a compatible rescheduled journey.

Given the toddler is unwell (hopefully they recover soon!), the simplest bet may be to just refund the whole lot under the Medical policy (would need paperwork of some sort [GP/pharmacy/some other AHP] sent over, I'm afraid). If this is timed properly, there's every chance the reservations will be released back and that Advance tier will then be available for re-purchase after that refund is processed (reservations are cancelled immediately) but appreciate it's a faff.

There's no easy way to reuse a previous reservation and convert into an undiscounted ticket, unfortunately. It's already been settled in LENNON and the reservation will have the wrong discount status code for a normal Adult ticket set against it in the reservation system.

I am personally of the view that this wasn't really thought through properly when the Two Together Railcard conditions were thought up, some sort of process probably should've been put in place for exceptional circumstances.

Ok so to check my understanding:

• Sometime before Saturday, get a pharmacist (or GP but seems a waste of GP time if I can get former) to confirm toddler has chickenpox in writing
• (Presumably) sometimes before Saturday more "formally" notify about/agree this plan with customer support soi they're in position to:
• On Saturday (if plan is activated - am hoping it doesn't need to be) the previous tickets are cancelled then a new reservation immediately made, understanding that there's at least a possibility even if unlikely that both the released reservations could be taken up in at least one leg?

(Or if Saturday isn't possible, substitute Friday for it above)

(Probably also worth my while getting in touch with the 4 5 TOCs involved to see if they'll pre-emptively provisnally authorise it)

(Edit: I've just done the above, partly to see what the customer service responses are. I can imagine this being spun off into another thread potentially, but for completeness here's what I sent and yes of course I used AI to make me coherent!)

Hi,

I’m due to travel from Durham to London on 15 February, returning on 18 February, on a business trip. I’m currently booked to travel with my wife and our two-year-old daughter using Two Together tickets.

Unfortunately, our daughter has developed chickenpox. At this stage, the plan remains that we will all travel as booked; however, if she is still unwell on Sunday, both my wife and daughter would stay at home and I would need to travel alone.

As Two Together tickets require both named passengers to travel together, I’m writing to make a purely pre-emptive request for authorisation to travel alone on the portion of the journey operated by your service, should this situation arise.

I’m contacting LNER, East Midlands Railway, TransPennine Express, CrossCountry, and Hull Trains, as each operates part of the journey. There would be no financial loss involved. This would simply avoid a technical breach of the ticket conditions if plans have to change at short notice.

I’ve spoken to the ticket retailer, and the alternative would be to refund the tickets under their medical policy and then rebook. However, due to the complexity of the journey (five train operators, with Sunday services expected to be particularly busy) and the uncertainty around my daughter’s condition until close to the travel date, I’d prefer to avoid this if possible.

If you’re able to provide written confirmation in advance that this would be permitted in those circumstances, I’d be very grateful (and hopefully won’t need to rely on it). I’ve attached the tickets for reference.

Many thanks for your help.

Kind regards,

 

[BRX]

This question may have been asked & answered many times already in which case apologies. I sort of follow this thread but often miss chunks of it.

Is there ever likely to be a facility to buy tickets without itinerary? Obviously it would have to be at the purchaser's own risk, and they'd have to satisfy themselves that they understood routeing and restrictions and so on.

There is a journey that I do quite often on an off peak return, where I start (and sometimes stop) short of the origin/destination. Usually this is easy enough to buy - I just tell it whatever time on the relevant day & choose a departure time roughly similar to when I'll actually travel.

The other day, 15 minutes before getting the train I realised I wasn't able to buy my ticket as normal. This was because the very first leg of the journey had been cancelled & all trains on that leg had been cancelled for the rest of the day. So no itinerary could be generated & no ticket could be offered. That first leg train didn't matter to me because of my starting short - the journey I was intending to make was still entirely possible, I just couldn't buy the ticket that I usually use for it.

 

[Mike395]

This isn't something we're going to be able to support in the immediate future at least, but meanwhile if you drop me a PM I might be able to suggest a workaround that surfaces the same ticket should it happen again. (But without knowing the details of the journey - which I understand you might not want to be public - I don't know if I could surface it).

 

[Egg Centric]

Ok so to check my understanding:

• Sometime before Saturday, get a pharmacist (or GP but seems a waste of GP time if I can get former) to confirm toddler has chickenpox in writing
• (Presumably) sometimes before Saturday more "formally" notify about/agree this plan with customer support soi they're in position to:
• On Saturday (if plan is activated - am hoping it doesn't need to be) the previous tickets are cancelled then a new reservation immediately made, understanding that there's at least a possibility even if unlikely that both the released reservations could be taken up in at least one leg?

(Or if Saturday isn't possible, substitute Friday for it above)

(Probably also worth my while getting in touch with the 4 5 TOCs involved to see if they'll pre-emptively provisnally authorise it)

(Edit: I've just done the above, partly to see what the customer service responses are. I can imagine this being spun off into another thread potentially, but for completeness here's what I sent and yes of course I used AI to make me coherent!)

It's looking likely enough we'll be able to travel as originally intended that the answer to this isn't strictly relevant, but still be handy to double check I understand right for future?

The disparity in the TOC replies will make a helpful separate thread once they're all collected I think given the responses so far, not cause the ultimate conclusion ("no because of NRCoT"* so far from the 3 who've got that far, although LNER have offered me £25 for some reason) is different yet but the way they've done things is quite different and there's still 2 to complete.

*I'm dubious about this reason, why can't a TOC offer transit on its services outside of strict NRCoT railcard terms, but that's another thing

 

[yorkie]

It's looking likely enough we'll be able to travel as originally intended that the answer to this isn't strictly relevant, but still be handy to double check I understand right for future?

The disparity in the TOC replies will make a helpful separate thread once they're all collected I think given the responses so far, not cause the ultimate conclusion ("no because of NRCoT"* so far from the 3 who've got that far, although LNER have offered me £25 for some reason) is different yet but the way they've done things is quite different and there's still 2 to complete.

*I'm dubious about this reason, why can't a TOC offer transit on its services outside of strict NRCoT railcard terms, but that's another thing

Are you able to translate this post into something I can easily understand, please?

Edit: Grammarly appears to have done a decent job; is this consistent with what you were saying?

The article discusses the ongoing uncertainty surrounding travel plans and the responses from different Train Operating Companies (TOCs) regarding transit services. It highlights that while a definitive conclusion seems to be "no" based on National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT), the differing replies from TOCs could be useful for future reference. The author notes a discrepancy in TOC responses, particularly mentioning that LNER has offered a £25 compensation, which raises questions about the reasons behind restricted transit services outside of NRCoT terms.

I think the onerous terms of F&F Railcards belongs in a separate thread, but suffice to say that I would absolutely expect each TOC to come up with a different answer, with differing degrees of reasonableness. Sadly, I suspect that any attempt at standardisation would result in the worst outcome being the one that prevails, but it really doesn't belong in this thread.

 

[Egg Centric]

Are you able to translate this post into something I can easily understand, please?

Edit: Grammarly appears to have done a decent job; is this consistent with what you were saying?

I think the onerous terms of F&F Railcards belongs in a separate thread, but suffice to say that I would absolutely expect each TOC to come up with a different answer, with differing degrees of reasonableness. Sadly, I suspect that any attempt at standardisation would result in the worst outcome being the one that prevails, but it really doesn't belong in this thread.

Heh, great minds - I went to ChatGPT to ask it to help me produce a summary of what I was saying but I won't post it unless you'd like me to - the above is basically right except for missing out my asking whether I was understanding correctly what I ought to do for the refund and rebook procedure (now hypothetical).

Suffice to say I'll post a separate thread of all the ways it's been dealt with afterwards as it seems useful to see how 5 different TOCs approached precisely the same email, but that's for next week most likely.

 

[walkingsophie]

Having the favourites save the advanced options for commonly made complicated journeys would be very helpful

 

[cav1975]

SWR offer a ticket type called Semi Flex Return. This is basically an advance outward combined with a fairly flexible return. Is this ticket type offered on the forum's site? I use the original site and haven't tried the new version.

 

[MrJeeves]

SWR offer a ticket type called Semi Flex Return. This is basically an advance outward combined with a fairly flexible return. Is this ticket type offered on the forum's site? I use the original site and haven't tried the new version.

Yes, but as it wouldn't be the cheapest fare for a journey, you would need to use the new site's "Change ticket selection" option.



Do bear in mind that the restrictions are rather arduous for the return journey if you're travelling back from London:

Monday-Saturday (including public holidays):

Not valid on trains timed to depart 04:30-12:00. Additionally, not valid if boarding at the following stations:

• London Waterloo 16:00-19:00
• Vauxhall 16:04-19:03
• Clapham Junction 16:07-19:08

Not valid on trains time to arrive at London Waterloo or Vauxhall 04:30-14:00.

Sunday:

Travel at any time.

 

[megabusser]

I’ve decided to change a journey today to one a bit earlier. Bought as a return journey made up of 2 Advances. I just want to change the outbound leg.

I’ve booked a new outbound ticket, but the form for refunding the original says that if I only want to refund one leg I need to email. But my email has got an auto-reply stating that customer service is only Monday to Friday.

Is this an issue that although I’ve emailed 8 hours before departure, the refund request won’t be looked at until after tomorrow (after the train has departed)? If so, anything I should do today?

 

[Adam Williams]

Is this an issue that although I’ve emailed 8 hours before departure, the refund request won’t be looked at until after tomorrow (after the train has departed)?

No, the customer service team will backdate it to the time you requested it; and all the checks will then use that time instead of the current date/time

 

[Tom]

Do bear in mind that the restrictions are rather arduous for the return journey if you're travelling back from London

The terms of the Semi-flex return are essentially the same as the old Super Off Peak return restrictions. It’s a fairly good ticket to have if the price point is right but I only ever manage to get good value on them if travelling on a train in the morning peak outbound that my Gold Card wouldn’t be valid for and there are still cheap advance buckets.

 

[megabusser]

No, the customer service team will backdate it to the time you requested it; and all the checks will then use that time instead of the current date/time

That's great - thanks very much.

Just as an FYI, the website generates a template email for the situation of refunding one leg of a journey, but the template email then doesn't mention this situation (refunding one leg), but does others (new ticket bought from other retailer and something else IIRC). It would be good to update this to make it obvious you're on the right 'track' (and also the 'out of office' stating that the time of request is taken into account). All just little bits of friction for people not totally familiar with the system (and even those who are!).

 

[Adam Williams]

That's great - thanks very much.

Just as an FYI, the website generates a template email for the situation of refunding one leg of a journey, but the template email then doesn't mention this situation (refunding one leg), but does others (new ticket bought from other retailer and something else IIRC). It would be good to update this to make it obvious you're on the right 'track' (and also the 'out of office' stating that the time of request is taken into account). All just little bits of friction for people not totally familiar with the system (and even those who are!).

Yeah. At some point it'll change to be a proper wizard that actually sends the request for you rather than just redirecting to mailto: and I think we'll revisit the whole flow at that point to try and fix some of these long-standing issues.

Unfortunately RDG have wasted my time on a great variety of other things lately, so making much of an improvement to that service will be a while.

 

[Egg Centric]

Is there a level at which you'd rather not have the business, e.g. today I'm likely to buy an advance Metro Centre - Hexham and then in another transaction the reverse. Happy to make that Northern's problem if it'll lose you money