Avanti West Coast or TransPennine Express

[ACL]

In April, we (myself and three ladies) will be travelling from Liverpool (Lime Street) to Edinburgh (Haymarket). I was looking at the different trains and it appears that both Avanti West Coast and TransPennine Express service this route. There is a TransPennine offering at 9:39 am which I am interested in. It has a 25 minute connection in Preston (Lancs), which I like due to the fact that the 4 of us are between the ages of 65 and 80 and laden down with luggage for a 10 day trip. I tried those 6 minute connections on our last trip to the UK and it appears that those days are in our past. I'll consider myself lucky if 25 minutes is sufficient time.

Besides TransPennine Express, my other option is Avanti West Coast, which changes at Wigan Northwestern. All of the connections appear to be tight (for us). But I looked and there are a number of trains on the first connection from Liverpool (Lime Street) to Wigan North Western, so maybe I can just catch an earlier one of these trains to increase the amount of time we have to transfer to the Avanti West Coast train in Wigan Northwestern.

Which do you think is best?

Thanks

 

[Segedunum]

Wigan North Western has better odds of being the easier connection as it'll either be straight across to the opposite side of the platform or exactly the same platform for your connection. No steps/footbridges etc involved.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Northern Trains operate fairly frequent services between Liverpool Lime Street and Wigan North Western (some continuing to Blackpool North via Preston). The cross-platform change at Wigan North Western is likely to be easier, as @Segedunum has mentioned, if the connections work o.k. There are also a handful of TPE services direct from Liverpool Lime Street to Glasgow Central, which would necessitate just a single change at Carlisle.

 

[voyagerdude220]

if the connections work o.k. There are also a handful of TPE services direct from Liverpool Lime Street to Glasgow Central, which would necessitate just a single change at Carlisle.

If doing this, I'd suggest changing at either Oxenholme or Penrith where it would be the same platform.

 

[Kite159]

Also the Avanti service will be at the minimum of 9 coaches (6 standard class coaches) or a 11 coach unit (8 standard class coaches). Whereas the TPE will be a 5 coach unit with 4 standard class coaches.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The TPE services are known for being extremely busy. I suspect you'll have a more relaxing journey on Avanti.

 

[AlterEgo]

Four of you with lots of bags and unable to manage minimum connection times? Rent a good size car and drive, if it is an option given your ages.

 

[ACL]

Thank you for your replies. If I book the Avanti service, would you suggest booking separate tickets for the Northern train from Liverpool to Wigan NW, and then book separate tickets for the Avanti train from Wigan NW to Haymarket (to give us additional time to make the connection/visit the toilet)? Or could I just catch a different/earlier Northern train than the one that I receive when booking them together?

I don't want to assume that the Northern tickets that I purchase are good for any of their train on that route that day.

 

[ACL]

Four of you with lots of bags and unable to manage minimum connection times? Rent a good size car and drive, if it is an option given your ages.

Ahhhh, I love driving in the UK. Been doing it for nearly 40 years now. It is a thought, but it would be a bit slower. I know that I'd get hung up in the Tyne Valley where I've spent so much time. I'd better stick to the train.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

If doing this, I'd suggest changing at either Oxenholme or Penrith where it would be the same platform.

It should be noted though that some Northbound Avanti services for Edinburgh Waverley do omit to call at Oxenholme, or Penrith.

 

[richardderby]

not sure if it helps, but TPE offer 20% off groups of 3 or more on their advance tickets 1st/STD class..

Group Train Travel | Special Offers | TransPennine Express

Travelling in a group of 3 to 9 people? Book TPE Advance train tickets and you will enjoy 33% discount. Find out more.

www.tpexpress.co.uk

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thank you for your replies. If I book the Avanti service, would you suggest booking separate tickets for the Northern train from Liverpool to Wigan NW, and then book separate tickets for the Avanti train from Wigan NW to Haymarket (to give us additional time to make the connection/visit the toilet)? Or could I just catch a different/earlier Northern train than the one that I receive when booking them together?

I don't want to assume that the Northern tickets that I purchase are good for any of their train on that route that day.

I would use an accredited split ticket site where you can specify the connection time. The Forum has one itself based on TrainSplit.

 

[ACL]

Thank you everyone.

 

[Bevan Price]

The Trans Pennine Glasgow services are usually lighter loaded than Edinburgh services. Personally, I would take the TP service from Liverpool as far as Carlisle, and change there. Usually same platform change, or at worst a gentle stroll between Platforms 1 and 3.

 

[ACL]

Thank you.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You'll have a smoother ride on the Avanti Pendolino trains.
The Avanti/TPE fares from Liverpool will include the connections to Wigan or Preston.
Generally there's an Avanti service to Edinburgh from Wigan/Preston every 2 hours, with a TPE service from Preston also every 2 hours, in between the Avanti service - so overall an hourly service from Liverpool to Edinburgh with one change.
The best connections on weekdays will be on (say) the 1039 (Northern) Liverpool-Blackpool, changing at Wigan at 1107 with a 30 minute connection into the 1138 Avanti to Haymarket/Edinburgh arr 1412 - this pattern repeats every 2 hours.
The change at Wigan is same-platform.

If you choose to go with TPE in the opposite hour, stay on the same xx39 Liverpool-Blackpool service to Preston, where you will have 25 minutes to change into the TPE Preston-Edinburgh train. A change at Preston involves changing platforms (lift/stairs), but the station has more facilities than Wigan.

What date in April are you looking at?
The route is disrupted by engineering works on 5-6 and 11-19 April.
On those dates it will be better to travel to Edinburgh via York on TPE/LNER (taking about an hour and a half longer).

 

[ACL]

What date in April are you looking at?
The route is disrupted by engineering works on 5-6 and 11-19 April.
On those dates it will be better to travel to Edinburgh via York on TPE/LNER (taking about an hour and a half longer).

Thanks for the great information. We will be traveling from Liverpool to Edinburgh on the 15th of April. I'll look at the routes via York. The LNER route north of York is pretty nice.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You'll find an hourly fast TPE service Liverpool-York-Newcastle, on good trains (5-car).
Timings are (eg) Liverpool 0924, York 1116, Newcastle 1224, repeating every hour.

You can change into an LNER London-Edinburgh service at either York or Newcastle.
They leave York at xx06 and xx19 every hour, reaching Edinburgh 2.5 hours later.
Or they leave Newcastle at xx03 and xx14, reaching Edinburgh 1.5 hours later.
These go to Waverley station.
A few trains go on beyond Waverley and stop at Haymarket - the 1206 from York (to Aberdeen), and the 1406 from York (to Inverness) do that.
Otherwise it's bus or tram from Waverley steps - not easy with bags - or a local train.

There is a 3rd hourly fast York-Newcastle-Edinburgh train, the Cross Country (XC) service at xx36 from York, xx40 from Newcastle.
These are diesel-worked and likely to be less comfortable than LNER.
Journey planners might well put you on one of these trains as it's the fastest connection from the Liverpool train (20 minutes).

With the West Coast route to Scotland closed for engineering work, the ones via York are likely to be busy.
Great Pennine scenery Manchester-Leeds of course, and also north of Darlington.

Changing at York will mean lift or stairs (platform 10 to 5). I'm not sure about Newcastle, but the Edinburgh trains will leave from platform 2.

I've just done a test booking on the TPE site, and it offers 0924 Liverpool-Newcastle 1224 and then 1303 Newcastle-Haymarket 1436.
Price appears to be about £66 each, though with a split fare you could get this down to £50 each if you change at Newcastle.

You might be able to book a table of 4 on both trains (free).

 

[ChrisC]

I hadn‘t realised the WCML was closed on so many occasions during April until I read this thread. I therefore now have a few similar questions to ask to which are perhaps as well asked here instead of starting a new thread.

I‘ve got a hotel booked in Dundee during April and will be travelling up from Nottingham to Dundee on Wednesday 8th April and returning on Friday 17th April. My original plan was to travel in both directions using the ECML and using LNER north of Doncaster to avoid using XC.

When I read in another thread that the southern end of the WCML is closed in and out of Euston on 8th April I did then begin to think how busy LNER trains could be on that day. I did wonder if EMR to Manchester Piccadilly and then TPE to Edinburgh could be an alternative. I know that TPE Edinburgh trains can be busy but as Manchester Piccadilly is quite early in the journey perhaps it would not be too full when I boarded there.

On the return journey, when the WCML is closed between Carlisle and Preston, I would be getting on an LNER train in Dundee right though to Doncaster. If I reserve a seat there shouldn’t be any problem getting on well north of Edinburgh. I will have a medium sized case which does fit on most overhead racks but want to avoid XC because of the overcrowding and lack of luggage space.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

On 8 April, EMR/TPE look pretty much normal, but Euston-Scotland trains are starting from Rugby (with the Edinburgh services running as usual via Birmingham).
But from Preston to Edinburgh Avanti looks fairly normal, and should be less busy without the London traffic.
Sadly, the EMR connection into TPE at Piccadilly is -4 minutes or 56 minutes!
Timings would be eg Nottingham 0945, Piccadilly 1125/1221, Edinburgh 1536 (repeats every 2 hours).
Or you could go via Preston and connect into the Avanti in the opposite hour, although connections are no better.
You wouldn't want to wait nearly.an hour on P14 at Piccadilly, though its nice enough in the main station for a break.
I can't really help on the return ECML as I'm not familiar enough with it.

 

[Travelmonkey]

I will echo as others have said taking avanti is probably the better shout, you can also book passenger assist to help your party if needs be especially with any changes and boarding and alighting. The pendos do have quite a difference between platform and saloon.

If you do go via the ECML you can get TPE to York or Newcastle and change for LNER there, again I would recommend passenger assist if you need it.

 

[ACL]

I just purchased tickets. Leaving Liverpool at 9:24 on TPE and changing at York to LNER. Will have a 50 minute change at York, a little long, but it will afford the ladies a leisurely visit to the loo without rushing. Arrives at Edinburgh Waverly at 14:28. Total cost was 165 GBP. A real deal.

I want to thank everyone for your responses and your help. I've been a member here since 2010 and have always been grateful for the excellent help I've always received here.

And as an American, I want to say that I am deeply ashamed and saddened by some of the statements our President has recently made concerning our good friends in the UK. They are totally uncalled for and should not have been said.

 

[Travelmonkey]

I just purchased tickets. Leaving Liverpool at 9:24 on TPE and changing at York to LNER. Will have a 50 minute change at York, a little long, but it will afford the ladies a leisurely visit to the loo without rushing. Arrives at Edinburgh Waverly at 14:28. Total cost was 165 GBP. A real deal.

I want to thank everyone for your responses and your help. I've been a member here since 2010 and have always been grateful for the excellent help I've always received here.

And as an American, I want to say that I am deeply ashamed and saddened by some of the statements our President has recently made concerning our good friends in the UK. They are totally uncalled for and should not have been said.

A wise idea you gone 1st or standard, although to coin a American term myself don't get too absorbed foaming at our rolling stock, unfortunately we have no real control over politics and my Amtrack ambitions are on hold till it settles over there. Hopefully you all enjoy your trip up to Edinburgh.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You probably know this, but the 1206 from York (to Aberdeen) you have booked, calls at Haymarket after Waverley if that's where you want to get to.
Have a good trip!

 

[ACL]

You probably know this, but the 1206 from York (to Aberdeen) you have booked, calls at Haymarket after Waverley if that's where you want to get to.
Have a good trip!

Thanks. I'll see if I can amend the ticket.

 

[Tester]

Thanks. I'll see if I can amend the ticket.

My understanding is that tickets to Edinburgh/Haymarket are accepted at the other station.

 

[ACL]

Cool. Thanks.