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Misuse Freedom Pass Court Summons

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YummyCinnamon

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Hi All,

I’m a nurse in England and have a court summons in March for using an elderly freedom pass that was not mine. I have lived in London for 5 years and got caught and charged for 2 months usage (I haven’t used it any longer than this). I am worried about losing my job as the regulatory body (NMC) might do an investigation after the conviction. I have sought solicitors to help with settling out of court however it is £1200 and they said it is a 50/50 chance of getting it settled without a conviction.

Has anyone gone through something similar, would you suggest a solicitor or just pay the fine and have it on my record. It won’t be on my DBS but I need to report it, however I am anxious of losing my job.

I just get hyper anxious and avoidant and this stresses me out a lot. At the moment I think I will do my duty and pay the fine and talk to my line manager and self refer to the NMC. And if need legal support after this then will seek with my union. I talked to my union this morning and there isn’t much they can do until post the court date. I’ve been told it’s a relatively minor conviction - but still want to ensure I am doing the right thing.

Thank you
 
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z444z

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Assuming it’s TfL that are prosecuting you?

Have you read their prosecutions policy? Specifically section 8. Unless you have mitigating circumstances under section 8 and can present them convincingly, usually with the help of a solicitor, TfL will prosecute. They do not settle, they either issue a warning letter or prosecute.

If mitigating circumstances under section 8 apply, it sounds like it’d be worth getting a solicitor here. If not, probably best to plead guilty and try to mitigate the consequences as much as you can.
 

Fawkes Cat

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I talked to my union this morning and there isn’t much they can do until post the court date. I’ve been told it’s a relatively minor conviction - but still want to ensure I am doing the right thing.
My understanding is that the NMC does not see fare dodging as a reason to prevent a nurse from working - and that's consistent with what your union seems to have said.

Realistically, you will not get out of this without it costing you money, but my suggestion would be to allow the court action to take its course, and advise your employer and regulator at all the appropriate points, so that no one can suggest that you are being dishonest about what has happened. I would expect (but cannot guarantee) that that would then be the end of the matter.
 

YummyCinnamon

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Assuming it’s TfL that are prosecuting you?

Have you read their prosecutions policy? Specifically section 8. Unless you have mitigating circumstances under section 8 and can present them convincingly, usually with the help of a solicitor, TfL will prosecute. They do not settle, they either issue a warning letter or prosecute.

If mitigating circumstances under section 8 apply, it sounds like it’d be worth getting a solicitor here. If not, probably best to plead guilty and try to mitigate the consequences as much as you can.
Yeah it’s TFL - I’ve talked to a solicitor and she said it’s a 50/50 chance, I’ve got some mitigation however it revolves around being a nurse and potential sanctions + good character and still paying for my oyster in the period I was using the pass. Used the freedom for 90 journeys which she said is a high number and high to mitigate. I’d rather not spend £1200 on a 50/50 chance and just see it through but it just makes me so anxious thinking about it
 

YummyCinnamon

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My understanding is that the NMC does not see fare dodging as a reason to prevent a nurse from working - and that's consistent with what your union seems to have said.

Realistically, you will not get out of this without it costing you money, but my suggestion would be to allow the court action to take its course, and advise your employer and regulator at all the appropriate points, so that no one can suggest that you are being dishonest about what has happened. I would expect (but cannot guarantee) that that would then be the end of the matter.
This is what I’m leaning towards - I did talk to a solicitor and had some mitigation but it’s all about my job + good character and how I was still paying oyster fees in the period I was using the card. I got quoted a 50/50 chance which I don’t think is good enough for £1200… Thank you :)
 

z444z

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Yeah it’s TFL - I’ve talked to a solicitor and she said it’s a 50/50 chance, I’ve got some mitigation however it revolves around being a nurse and potential sanctions + good character and still paying for my oyster in the period I was using the pass. Used the freedom for 90 journeys which she said is a high number and high to mitigate. I’d rather not spend £1200 on a 50/50 chance and just see it through but it just makes me so anxious thinking about it
None of this is mitigation under TfL’s prosecutions policy. I don’t believe a solicitor would have anywhere near a 50% chance of convincing them not to prosecute.
 

duffield

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If the solicitor you consulted is not a fare evasion specialist, their assessment of the chances may not be very accurate at all.
 

Hadders

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I’m a nurse in England and have a court summons in March for using an elderly freedom pass that was not mine.
Who does the Freedom Pass belong to and what is their relationship to you?

I don't believe this changes how TfL will deal with the offence (they usually prosecute under the TfL Byelaws) but it might be a question the NMC would ask you.

We have seen some limited instances in recent months where TfL offer a warning rather than prosecute, but this appears to be where a solicitor specialising in rail fare evasion is involved. There are handful of solicitors mentioned regularly in this section of the forum who seem to have a decent track record, and if you do decide to use a solicitor I would be contact with one of those. I don't know what fees they charge but I suspect it would be less than the figure mentioned in the opening post.
 

WesternLancer

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This is what I’m leaning towards - I did talk to a solicitor and had some mitigation but it’s all about my job + good character and how I was still paying oyster fees in the period I was using the card. I got quoted a 50/50 chance which I don’t think is good enough for £1200… Thank you :)
if you do want to talk to other solicitors see below specialist firms (also bear in mind that you may have access to one through your union but they will probably not be a Tfl / rail fare evasion specialist but it's worth asking the union for details)

Specialist firms that get mentioned on here by people who have used them are:

Manak Solicitors

Fare Evasion Solicitors | Kent & London | Manak Solicitors

Manak Solicitors: Skilled legal defence for fare evasion cases. Rely on our experienced team to protect your rights, challenge penalties, and guide you through the process.

manaksolicitors.co.uk


Makwanas

Fare Evasion Solicitors London | High Success Rate | TFL Solicitors

www.makwanas.co.uk


http://www.grayhooperholt.co.uk/default.asp?id=30


https://penmansedgwick.com/fare-evasion/
 

Haywain

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This is what I’m leaning towards - I did talk to a solicitor and had some mitigation but it’s all about my job + good character and how I was still paying oyster fees in the period I was using the card. I got quoted a 50/50 chance which I don’t think is good enough for £1200… Thank you :)
One thing to be aware of is that with the number of journeys being high, TfL are likely to prosecute for the one offence when you were stopped and ask for the others to be 'taken into consideration'. This would mean that you are required to attend the court and plead guilty (or not) to all the offences.
 

YummyCinnamon

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Who does the Freedom Pass belong to and what is their relationship to you?

I don't believe this changes how TfL will deal with the offence (they usually prosecute under the TfL Byelaws) but it might be a question the NMC would ask you.

We have seen some limited instances in recent months where TfL offer a warning rather than prosecute, but this appears to be where a solicitor specialising in rail fare evasion is involved. There are handful of solicitors mentioned regularly in this section of the forum who seem to have a decent track record, and if you do decide to use a solicitor I would be contact with one of those. I don't know what fees they charge but I suspect it would be less than the figure mentioned in the opening post.
No - I’ve got a court summons in March so already going to prosecute. Random freedom pass I found on the floor haha, no idea whose it is.
 

YummyCinnamon

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One thing to be aware of is that with the number of journeys being high, TfL are likely to prosecute for the one offence when you were stopped and ask for the others to be 'taken into consideration'. This would mean that you are required to attend the court and plead guilty (or not) to all the offences.
Would they not investigate all the journeys if I plead guilty to some but not all? My younger sister (17) also used the card when she visited me in London but I’m worried that’s going to make the case more complicated… So was just going to say I did them all
 

MarlowDonkey

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Would they not investigate all the journeys if I plead guilty to some but not all? My younger sister (17) also used the card when she visited me in London but I’m worried that’s going to make the case more complicated… So was just going to say I did them all
Unless used by the authorised holder of the Freedom Pass, all the journeys were invalid. Were any of them where the Pass was used correctly?
 

duffield

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If you are considering lying to the court by accepting offences that you know someone else committed you should be aware that that is a very serious criminal offence, far more serious than fare evasion. Don't lie to the court under any circumstances.
 

LYradial

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I cannot link to it but this thread. Misuse pass court summons. Has the same circumstances with some of the offences committed by their brother. Sign for the ones you committed, don’t sign the ones you did not.

it also has a deal of information about court procedure and also the outcome

well worth a read

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Sorry the correct thread title is. Freedom pass misuse-requisition to attend court
 
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z444z

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I cannot link to it but this thread
 

SussexMan

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A few points...

From my memory of other posts, the amount you have been quoted by the solicitor is higher than amounts other people have paid so definitely worth contacting the other ones referenced in post 9.

I don't understand the comment "and still paying for my oyster in the period I was using the pass". Do you mean that you didn't use the pass for all your journeys but used the Oyster for some and the pass for others. That is certainly not mitigation.

Some posters have said the chance of a warning versus a conviction if you instruct a solicitor is definitely less then 50%. I think it is only fair to you that people say why they are making that judgement, because it needs to be made either with some inside knowledge or a good knowledge of similar cases. I can remember quite a few threads on here where people have been given a warning, but (no doubt about to be proved wrong) I can't remember one where someone has come back and said I paid a solicitor £x and I still got prosecuted.

Obviously the NMC would take a different stance if the pass was a patient's - but you have certainly not mentioned anything suggesting that.

100% do NOT accept guilt for trips you did not take - why would you? Lying in court is serious.

It may not help but one way of viewing the solicitor's cost is that the cost is £x minus the fares you avoided - so the "cost" to you may be a couple of hundred pounds less. I have no idea if the situations where someone is issued a warning includes an agreement to repay the fares avoided - or whether that offer might increase the chances of a warning. That would be for the solicitor (preferably a specialist) to advise.

Finally, if you are a super-anxious person have a think through any other aspects of your life where you are creating situations which can lead to worsening of your mental health. This was a situation where you had full control and could have avoided any anxiety over it.
 

z444z

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Some posters have said the chance of a warning versus a conviction if you instruct a solicitor is definitely less then 50%. I think it is only fair to you that people say why they are making that judgement, because it needs to be made either with some inside knowledge or a good knowledge of similar cases.
I said “None of this is mitigation under TfL’s prosecutions policy”. We have no reason to believe TfL would be at all moved by a solicitors letter saying “my client is very sorry”. They have a very detailed prosecutions policy which they seem to follow.

If the OP has the money to spare then sure, give it a go, but don’t expect it to do anything at all unless mitigating factors under 8.2 are present.
 

6Gman

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A few points...

100% do NOT accept guilt for trips you did not take - why would you? Lying in court is serious.
Isn't there a complication here though?

The pass was in the OP's possession during a period of time.

If they now say "yes, I used it in July and from September but not on those journeys in August" the obvious question is then "well, who did then?" To which the honest answer would be "oh that was my sister".

Which implicates their sister.
 

duffield

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Isn't there a complication here though?

The pass was in the OP's possession during a period of time.

If they now say "yes, I used it in July and from September but not on those journeys in August" the obvious question is then "well, who did then?" To which the honest answer would be "oh that was my sister".

Which implicates their sister.
The alternative, accepting the offences in court in the full knowledge that you did not commit them, is (in my non-lawyer's opinion) either perjury or attempting to pervert the course of justice. That would be a very, very bad mistake.

Another entirely honest answer to "well, who did then?" would be "I am not prepared to say".
 

WesternLancer

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My younger sister (17) also used the card when she visited me in London … So was just going to say I did them all
Do NOT do this under any circumstances. That would be a lie and a lie in court scenario could end very badly.

Let TfL find out who used the pass if they think some use of it was not by the correct person, but was not you on those occasions.
 

YummyCinnamon

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Do NOT do this under any circumstances. That would be a lie and a lie in court scenario could end very badly.

Let TfL find out who used the pass if they think some use of it was not by the correct person, but was not you on those occasions.
Ok - My sister only used the card when I was with her (so with her at all times) and I’d use my oyster.

Would this create an implication for her or no because they caught me and not her
 

Haywain

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Ok - My sister only used the card when I was with her (so with her at all times) and I’d use my oyster
So you have some evidence that you were not using the Freedom Pass.
Would this create an implication for her or no because they caught me and not her
What you will be asked is if you were using the pass, not who else might have been using it.
 

YummyCinnamon

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So you have some evidence that you were not using the Freedom Pass.

What you will be asked is if you were using the pass, not who else might have been using it.
Majority of uses yes - Maybe 10 journeys no. Could court accept me saying I’d take responsibility for those other journeys though as it’s my younger sister who is also a minor
 

duffield

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As an adult accompanying a minor, I think you could safely say, without lying, that you took responsibility for her use, and I would expect the court and TfL to accept this - although that is just my opinion. I understand (and the experts will correct me if wrong) that TfL do not prosecute minors for these offences anyhow.
 

WesternLancer

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Majority of uses yes - Maybe 10 journeys no. Could court accept me saying I’d take responsibility for those other journeys though as it’s my younger sister who is also a minor
I would avoid getting into this at all. Better to say ‘no comment’ I would think.

It wasn’t many years ago that an MPs wife went to prison for lieing to court and saying she drove the car over the speed limit when it was him in order to save him from the relatively minor consequences of the speeding ticket.
Career over for him. Prison for her iirc.
 

Fawkes Cat

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Isn't there a complication here though?

The pass was in the OP's possession during a period of time.

If they now say "yes, I used it in July and from September but not on those journeys in August" the obvious question is then "well, who did then?" To which the honest answer would be "oh that was my sister".

Which implicates their sister.
I think that when this came up in a previous thread, I pointed out that my understanding is that 'taken into consideration ' is meant to be a quick way of dealing with other incidents at court. So if you agree to an incident being taken into consideration, then you're punished for it there and then: for incidents that you don't agree, then TfL have the right to come back to it later.

So at court, all that will be asked is which incidents you want to have taken into consideration. If TfL want to look further at the ones you haven't accepted they'll do that later - and you could decline to comment on them if they do come back to you.

Which is yet another reason to follow the advice given above to tell the truth, rather than to deny things you have done or accept responsibility for things you haven't done.
 

Haywain

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I would avoid getting into this at all. Better to say ‘no comment’ I would think.
I don't believe that's an option. It's a question of did you commit each offence or not. Yes or no, and nothing more.
 
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