Waverley set to overtake Glasgow Central for first time in 150 years

[Uncle Buck]

I

Hence the suggested riposte to “Glasgow’s miles better” being “Edinburgh’s slightly superior” (with tongue firmly in cheek). Can’t remember what Edinburgh came up with in the end , but it wasn’t a patch on Glasgow’s!

As you drive into Edinburgh on the M8 there is a c.2000-era sign saying, “Welcome to Edinburgh- Inspiring Capital” which is a pretty grim slogan for any city, especially one as beautiful and historic.

 

[mmh]

i truly wish this was the case, but the percentage of new construction in Glasgow that is student housing is ridiculous.

It feels like the city is being built around the needs of overseas students, not the inhabitants.

Ah, the Manchester syndrome.

 

[cle]

I wish I didn't agree with this as much as I do. Reason being is that I generally don't like getting into 'my city is better than your city' or 'your city is thriving as ours withers on the vine' debates as they often devolve into bitter arguements and divisions and often as not doesn't line up with reality (I just straight up ignore those deliberately trying to get under my skin in such a way, easier said than done sometimes), but just as much potential has been squandered in this city since 2010 as there have been success stories. Same is true for most cities and Glasgow is by no means unique here, but you'll always see & feel it particularly acutely in your own (goes without saying), especially if there's at least some merit to it.

Both are great cities in different ways, but Edinburgh has got the critical mass of almost year round tourism + business, and is a desirable place to relocate too. Not a surprise that it’s hitting number 1. A 30 minute service interval from London? What was that 40 years ago? 7-8 trains a day?

I love Glasgow and wasn't happy about writing a lot of that. And shout out to the poster who mentioned the Burrell Collection - Glasgow has great museums and I don't know that people are as broadly aware - further afield.

It is also worth pointing out that the ORR have Waverley-Queen Street as the second biggest flow completely outside London at 2.4m. Waverley gets one end of the big Edinburgh-Glasgow flow, but Central doesn't get the other end.

Central isn't the only main station in Glasgow. Combine Central and Queen Street numbers and compare with Waverley plus Haymarket and Glasgow is still a very long way ahead.

Don't be depressed, Glasgow, you're still up there as one of Britain's greatest cities!

This is fair. It is very split. On the other hand, Edinburgh basically doesn't have any local rail at all. Glasgow has a commuter rail culture.


One thing not focused on here - population decline. When Glasgow boomed, the city proper had 1m+ people, it now scrapes 600k. Yes many to the suburbs and still in the metro - but the city proper, the Merchant City and the inner suburbs feel grander than the reality of today, sadly. And that's size as well as wealth.

 

[matchmaker]

Unfortunately I agree with this, massive missed opportunity to build a large airport in the Falkirk area and shut both Glasgow and Edinburgh. It could've been as big as Manchester / Dublin. Whereas Glasgow is stuck with an airport west.

Also for train travel north of the central belt, Edinburgh takes the crown. A cross platform interchange at Haymarket or a run up the ECML is more attractive than walking between two Glasgow termini (or that shuttle bus).

Edinburgh Airport is far easier to access for most in the Central Belt. I can be on the M9 within 10 minutes from leaving my house and and be at the airport within half an hour. Glasgow Airport? Provan junction, Woodside Viaduct works, Kingston Bridge. No thanks!

 

[mmh]

Edinburgh Airport is far easier to access for most in the Central Belt. I can be on the M9 within 10 minutes from leaving my house and and be at the airport within half an hour. Glasgow Airport? Provan junction, Woodside Viaduct works, Kingston Bridge. No thanks!

Meanwhile in Renfrew, Paisley, Kilmarnock, Ayr...

 

[Falcon1200]

Accessibility to Glasgow Airport would be greatly improved with a rail link; Which was planned but cancelled. Whereas Edinburgh Airport at least has a tram line.

I moved from Oxford to Glasgow in 1984 and do not regret it for a minute, Glasgow is a wonderful city.

 

[Peter0124]

Edinburgh Airport is far easier to access for most in the Central Belt. I can be on the M9 within 10 minutes from leaving my house and and be at the airport within half an hour. Glasgow Airport? Provan junction, Woodside Viaduct works, Kingston Bridge. No thanks!

Only criticism of Edinburgh is the one road in, one road out situation (the A8). It can take a long time to reach the motorway at Newbridge from the airport, during the peak traffic flow.

 

[mickey]

It’s similar in the airline industry, Edinburgh is booming and everyone wants to go there, while Glasgow is declining and the airport operator is struggling. Ironically it means tiny EDI is cramped and chaotic for much of the day, while GLA has a large terminal that’s massively underused.

Americans in particular have no idea how close they actually are (or how easy it is to get from Glasgow to the highlands), which is why all the US flights are now in the capital. That’s a marketing failure.

Scotland really missed an opportunity to build a Central airport in the empty void south of Falkirk, which could have had 20min(ish) train connections to each city. Selfishness/stubborn pride in both cities would always have prevented this obvious solution, despite its potential to have become a major hub.

 

[clc]

8

i truly wish this was the case, but the percentage of new construction in Glasgow that is student housing is ridiculous.

It feels like the city is being built around the needs of overseas students, not the inhabitants.

I see this complaint a lot online but you have to acknowledge that education has become a significant export earner for the city. Glasgow University is spending over a billion pounds on new buildings, funded in part by income from foreign students. The university is a success story.

Students have to live somewhere and these new developments under construction in Anderston and around Charing Cross will provide thousands of beds for students who would otherwise occupy mainstream rental flats, pushing up rents in the process and exacerbating the housing crisis.

Purpose built student accommodation is also a major driver of regeneration in areas which developers/investors have shunned for decades. The scale and density of the new builds in Anderston is something else.

 

[Peter0124]

Scotland really missed an opportunity to build a Central airport in the empty void south of Falkirk, which could have had 20min(ish) train connections to each city. Selfishness/stubborn pride in both cities would always have prevented this obvious solution, despite its potential to have become a major hub.

Yup, it could have become a Dublin with pre-clearance facilities aswell and many year round US flights, also decent proximity to the WCML via Cumbernauld.

But instead we have Ingliston and Paisley battling it out to be Scotland's best airport.

 

[cle]

It’s similar in the airline industry, Edinburgh is booming and everyone wants to go there, while Glasgow is declining and the airport operator is struggling. Ironically it means tiny EDI is cramped and chaotic for much of the day, while GLA has a large terminal that’s massively underused.

Americans in particular have no idea how close they actually are (or how easy it is to get from Glasgow to the highlands), which is why all the US flights are now in the capital. That’s a marketing failure.

Scotland really missed an opportunity to build a Central airport in the empty void south of Falkirk, which could have had 20min(ish) train connections to each city. Selfishness/stubborn pride in both cities would always have prevented this obvious solution, despite its potential to have become a major hub.

I agree with this in part - GLA is south west of the city, ie away from Edinburgh. Whereas EDI is west of the city, ie towards Glasgow, and the Central Belt.

But inbound demand doesn't know or care. That said, if there was a Schiphol for Scotland, ideated 20-30 years ago as a central big airport, rail hub, office hub etc etc - it might have been very different. But arguably that may have sucked Glasgow in different ways.

I see this complaint a lot online but you have to acknowledge that education has become a significant export earner for the city. Glasgow University is spending over a billion pounds on new buildings, funded in part by income from foreign students. The university is a success story.

Students have to live somewhere and these new developments under construction in Anderston and around Charing Cross will provide thousands of beds for students who would otherwise occupy mainstream rental flats, pushing up rents in the process and exacerbating the housing crisis.

This is a good point. Glasgow is generally very affordable. And people do like to **** on students, but these days they drive coffee culture, nicer wine/food outlets, arts - when I was at uni, we were drunk bums. So I think the student economy is highly additive.

Yup, it could have become a Dublin with pre-clearance facilities aswell and many year round US flights, also decent proximity to the WCML via Cumbernauld.

But instead we have Ingliston and Paisley battling it out to be Scotland's best airport.

We'd need low corporation tax and other EU-beating goodies to really justify that and be a Dublin. And a home/hubbed airline!

 

[Strathclyder]

Meanwhile in Renfrew, Paisley, Kilmarnock, Ayr...

And Clydebank, Dumbarton, Helensburgh, Balloch...

Lots of good points on this thread re Glasgow. But one thing I’ve noticed over the last few months is the huge number of new buildings going up within the city centre and immediately around it.

There’s a massive development on the Broomielaw stretching up to the expressway and Anderson station, another large one on Newton St up to Charing X station and the surrounding streets, plus the College Lands area near High St station. The much maligned Sauchiehall St is seeing the old M&S store being rebuilt and extended upwards into student flats. There are many more examples and many more in the pipeline. One thing they all have in common is scale and density which will push up the city centre population and drive demand for additional services which will hopefully result in empty premises being refurbished.
As a Glaswegian I’m fine with Edinburgh growing, but believe that Glasgow is on the cusp of finally turning the corner.

Precisely my views on this. I really hope the city's turning point is on the horizon as it's been long overdue for a few years now.

i truly wish this was the case, but the percentage of new construction in Glasgow that is student housing is ridiculous.

It feels like the city is being built around the needs of overseas students, not the inhabitants.

I tend to look at this differently. Any domestic or overseas student that lives here in one those student housing blocks (which, if they didn't exist, would have to live in general rented accomidation, which is scarce enough right now as it is) may very well end up deciding to settle here permanantly once their time in uni is over. On top of which, as @clc and @cle point out, they drive the cultivation and growth of good food & drink outlets here, to say nothing of the art culture. People always tend to dunk on overseas students, but they've been a massive earner for both the city proper and Glasgow University, whom I doubt would be ploughing so much money into new/improved accomadations if the opposite were true.

 

[Russel]

It annoys me as a Glaswegian that it feels like Edinburgh is pulling ahead in every metric, while we sit idly doing basically nothing to improve our city. I blame the 1996 local council redrawing getting rid of Strathclyde regional council and devolution, which gave Edinburgh the most political power in Scotland.

I love Glasgow, but, from a tourism perspective, I was in Glasgow late last year after not visiting for about 5 years and I was shocked at how scruffy and run down it was looking compared to previous visits, Edinburgh was looking a little rough around the edges too in fairness but not to the same extent as Glasgow.

 

[Davester50]

It’s similar in the airline industry, Edinburgh is booming and everyone wants to go there, while Glasgow is declining and the airport operator is struggling. Ironically it means tiny EDI is cramped and chaotic for much of the day, while GLA has a large terminal that’s massively underused.

I prefer Glasgow Airport over Edinburgh Airport, but it's never been easier to get to Edinburgh Airport by public transport from Dundee and Angus.
The Ember/Flix/McGill's service trounces anything the railway offers sadly.

Scotland really missed an opportunity to build a Central airport in the empty void south of Falkirk, which could have had 20min(ish) train connections to each city. Selfishness/stubborn pride in both cities would always have prevented this obvious solution, despite its potential to have become a major hub.

This is very true, if Glasgow Airport had have been developed around Cumbernauld instead of developing Abbotsinch, it would be in a much better position to compete with Edinburgh, being on the "right" side of Glasgow, and not having the then main Transatlantic terminal at Prestwick so close.


As for Edinburgh, how much does it draw from Fife? It only ever seems to pull more people out of the Kingdom to work to escape the property prices south of the River Forth.

Both Cities, (like all cities in Scotland these days sadly), need a good clean. Too many street cleaning teams were cut back under the guise of Austerity and the effect of Council Tax freezes.

 

[deltic]

The total Network Rail footfall figures for 2025 were 32.3m for Edinburgh Waverley and 33.4 for Glasgow Central.

 

[james73]

I love Glasgow, but, from a tourism perspective, I was in Glasgow late last year after not visiting for about 5 years and I was shocked at how scruffy and run down it was looking compared to previous visits, Edinburgh was looking a little rough around the edges too in fairness but not to the same extent as Glasgow.

As a Glaswegian I sadly have to agree. The city centre these days is a sihthole and I avoid it like the proverbial. I live fairly central but work on the outskirts so I thankfully never need to head in to or through it.

 

[Russel]

As a Glaswegian I sadly have to agree. The city centre these days is a sihthole and I avoid it like the proverbial. I live fairly central but work on the outskirts so I thankfully never need to head in to or through it.

It's a shame and I know everywhere is suffering, but the neglect just seemed so much more noticeable in Glasgow, to add to that, there also seemed to be an increase in homeless and general undesirables in the vicinity of Central station, especially the underpass under the station by the McDonalds and Pizza Hut junction..

 

[james73]

It's a shame and I know everywhere is suffering, but the neglect just seemed so much more noticeable in Glasgow, to add to that, there also seemed to be an increase in homeless and general undesirables in the vicinity of Central station, especially the underpass under the station by the McDonalds and Pizza Hut junction..

The McDonalds/Pizza Hut junction is at "Four Corners" to use the vernacular. And it's ALWAYS been like that.

And the station underbridge is unofficially known as the Hielanman's Umbrella. And, again, it's ALWAYS been like that.

Two places I avoid at all costs if I'm in the city centre.

 

[Russel]

The McDonalds/Pizza Hut junction is at "Four Corners" to use the vernacular. And it's ALWAYS been like that.

And the station underbridge is unofficially known as the Hielanman's Umbrella. And, again, it's ALWAYS been like that.

Two places I avoid at all costs if I'm in the city centre.

Ah, I knew the underbridge had a name, I couldn't remember what it was though!

The McDonalds is also an experience to remember too!

 

[route101]

It annoys me as a Glaswegian that it feels like Edinburgh is pulling ahead in every metric, while we sit idly doing basically nothing to improve our city. I blame the 1996 local council redrawing getting rid of Strathclyde regional council and devolution, which gave Edinburgh the most political power in Scotland.

Yes, Glasgow got stuck in the year 2005 and never moved up a level. There is shoots of promise. Edinburgh has really come on a weekend destination year round.

 

[Uncle Buck]

As a Glaswegian I sadly have to agree. The city centre these days is a sihthole and I avoid it like the proverbial. I live fairly central but work on the outskirts so I thankfully never need to head in to or through it.

Exactly the same in my case (live West End, work Bearsden). Almost the only reason I go into town is if I am taking a train to Edinburgh or London or a coach to Edinburgh Airport, almost never for leisure. And nobody in my social circle ever suggests going either; the place has become a complete dump. Glasgow used to be a cut above the other ex-industrial provincial cities and nowadays it has lost that. It’s really upsetting. Let’s hope that it can recover.

 

[mrmartin]

It’s similar in the airline industry, Edinburgh is booming and everyone wants to go there, while Glasgow is declining and the airport operator is struggling. Ironically it means tiny EDI is cramped and chaotic for much of the day, while GLA has a large terminal that’s massively underused.

Americans in particular have no idea how close they actually are (or how easy it is to get from Glasgow to the highlands), which is why all the US flights are now in the capital. That’s a marketing failure.

Scotland really missed an opportunity to build a Central airport in the empty void south of Falkirk, which could have had 20min(ish) train connections to each city. Selfishness/stubborn pride in both cities would always have prevented this obvious solution, despite its potential to have become a major hub.

I don't think it would be worth it at all. It would cost many many billions and the benefits would be pretty limited - Edinburgh (which is a bigger traffic generator per capita) would have slightly worse connections, Glasgow slightly better. I doubt there are many routes that would suddenly become viable that aren't already viable at Edinburgh (though probably higher frequency, but I'm not sure how important that is - you're not going to get a heathrow like frequency to NY from this new hub airport and regional routes from EDI to Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Dublin, London, Bristol etc are already very frequent).

The big problem would be that I suspect most of the growth in Edinburgh came from the competition between the two airports. It's likely a new airport with a high cost base (regardless of 'quality', it would have significant debt to pay back via landing fees) wouldn't actually have the 'greater than the sum of its parts' solution that appears.

I'm pretty sure you could achieve a ~30min journey time from Glasgow with a new EARL style project, if desired (or ideally; an airport rail link to Glasgow AND edinburgh like was proposed in the mid 2000s!).

 

[Uncle Buck]

I don't think it would be worth it at all. It would cost many many billions and the benefits would be pretty limited - Edinburgh (which is a bigger traffic generator per capita) would have slightly worse connections, Glasgow slightly better. I doubt there are many routes that would suddenly become viable that aren't already viable at Edinburgh

There already is a major international airport between Glasgow and Edinburgh. It is called Edinburgh Airport. More tourists want to visit Edinburgh and it has better connections to the rest of Scotland. Indeed, it is pretty easy to access from Glasgow!

Glasgow’s location means it is primarily a secondary, regional airport. Not only is it quite a busy one (I have lived under its flight path for most of my life and a plane seems to be landing every few minutes), it is also in a good location itself for serving the whole Strathclyde conurbation.

Central Scotland has both a major international airport and a good regional airport. Both are also very pleasant airports to use. The occasional suggestion of a single airport would be a diabolical squandering of resources.

 

[Albaman]

Although I have not lived in Glasgow for just over 30 years, I am still a frequent visitor and , in a certain way, proud of the city where I was born and spent many years both as a resident and in employment. There are some aspects of life in Glasgow which I find distinctly unappealing, but these would take us even further away from the original topic.

To return to the theme of transport, visitors to the city who arrive in Central station then travel by bus from Union Street must be horrified by the surroundings, particularly at night.

I was intrigued to see the junction of Union Street/Argyle Street/Jamaica Street referred to as " Four Corners". In my youth, there was a large branch of Boots the Chemist at the corner of Union Street and Argyle Street and this was a regular meeting place for what you might say were courting couples or potential courting couples. Regarding the latter, it wasn't unknown for one of the persons involved not to appear and hence the location was known as " Disy " ( ie disappointment ) Corner.

 

[IlkleyRunner]

Just in terms of airports it's the 2-way flows that really determine which routes/airports are successful. Even a large airport like Manchester has lost a lot of overseas flights in recent years because although it has a large catchment to people wanting to fly out to places, fewer from overseas want to fly in. What keeps all those US flights out of Edinburgh going for example is almost entirely down to incoming US tourist demand.

 

[Western Gaffer]

Central Scotland has both a major international airport and a good regional airport. Both are also very pleasant airports to use. The occasional suggestion of a single airport would be a diabolical squandering of resources.

I don't think I'm alone in finding Edinburgh airport quite the opposite, particularly the arrivals flow, involving far more staircases than a modern airport really ought to have!

 

[cats_five]

I don't think I'm alone in finding Edinburgh airport quite the opposite, particularly the arrivals flow, involving far more staircases than a modern airport really ought to have!

The stairs are good for you. They get the circulation working again! What I absolutely hate at Edinburgh is if you are unlucky and arrive on an international flight, there can be almost an hour of slowly shuffling to get through border control.

 

[Western Gaffer]

The stairs are good for you. They get the circulation working again! What I absolutely hate at Edinburgh is if you are unlucky and arrive on an international flight, there can be almost an hour of slowly shuffling to get through border control.

I'd prefer to undertake physical exercise in a form and location of my choosing, thanks! The passport control experience can be pretty soul-destroying, although the airport management will always point out that this is outside their control and is a matter for Border Force, in the same way that they deflect baggage handling complaints to airlines and their handling agents, but terminal design and construction is definitely down to the airport itself...

 

[Davester50]

I'd prefer to undertake physical exercise in a form and location of my choosing, thanks! The passport control experience can be pretty soul-destroying, although the airport management will always point out that this is outside their control and is a matter for Border Force, in the same way that they deflect baggage handling complaints to airlines and their handling agents, but terminal design and construction is definitely down to the airport itself...

Agreed!

Edinburgh security outbound is worse than Glasgow. Coming back, the stairs is a pain, considering there used to be an escalator straight ahead from the main gates.
The nickel and diming at Edinburgh for the baggage trolleys is sickening, especially after the almost obligatory wait for an age.

 

[David M]

Arguable the worst aspect about Edinburgh airport is that there are no toilets (if there are, we've never found them) between disembarking aircraft and getting through security.