Standedge Tunnel Fire 25/1

[H F Stephens]

Meanwhile, in TPE news, 9E05 05:20 Liverpool-Newcastle ran fast from York to Newcastle because it was 30 late at York. That's the main morning commuter train from Northallerton to Darlington, Durham and Newcastle. It appears that, unlike normal routine, no LNER was stopped to deal with it either. The next train northbound from Northallerton was LNER's 1N01 some 75 minutes after 9E05 should have left.

Not dissimilarly, Chester-le-Street, which largely depends on Transpennine Express for calls, saw this morning's Northbound 08:15 peak service pass without calling, as did the 09:16.

The 14:14 and 15:13 this afternoon have been cancelled outright.

There was therefore a 66 minute gap between calls in the morning peak, and those calls were two car Northern services.

This afternoon's timetabled gap is three hours, only reduced to two hours 2h40m ish by the late running of the 13:15.

It looks as though Durham's Northbound morning peak service was nearly as parsimonious, partially as an exacerbation of the current East Coast Main Line timetable's extreme imbalance around the clockface at that station.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The 1pm HUD-MAN service is running. Just seems to be missing from the journey planners.

Was that a train service from Huddersfield or to Huddersfield?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Was that a train service from Huddersfield or to Huddersfield?

I think it was a bus from Huddersfield to Manchester.

 

[Sf9k]

1P75 got spun round at Thornaby after being 66L

 

[Segedunum]

Not dissimilarly, Chester-le-Street, which largely depends on Transpennine Express for calls, saw this morning's Northbound 08:15 peak service pass without calling, as did the 09:16.

The 14:14 and 15:13 this afternoon have been cancelled outright.

There was therefore a 66 minute gap between calls in the morning peak, and those calls were two car Northern services.

This afternoon's timetabled gap is three hours, only reduced to two hours 2h40m ish by the late running of the 13:15.

It looks as though Durham's Northbound morning peak service was nearly as parsimonious, partially as an exacerbation of the current East Coast Main Line timetable's extreme imbalance around the clockface at that station.

1613 and 1713 now cancelled (former running fast, latter binned entirely) at Chester-le-Street.

Small mercy for Darlington/Durham this morning is that the following LNER (0808 Darlington-Newcastle) was 9 vice 5 carriages.

 

[D1537]

Not dissimilarly, Chester-le-Street, which largely depends on Transpennine Express for calls, saw this morning's Northbound 08:15 peak service pass without calling, as did the 09:16.

The railway running services for the railway, not the passengers. Little changes, especially with TPE.

 

[Ian Hardy]

The railway running services for the railway, not the passengers. Little changes, especially with TPE.

Is that what GBR is all about?

 

[Tge1435]

Meanwhile, in TPE news, 9E05 05:20 Liverpool-Newcastle ran fast from York to Newcastle because it was 30 late at York. That's the main morning commuter train from Northallerton to Darlington, Durham and Newcastle. It appears that, unlike normal routine, no LNER was stopped to deal with it either. The next train northbound from Northallerton was LNER's 1N01 some 75 minutes after 9E05 should have left.

This was the exact same for me last night also, left Leeds 35 minutes later than planned and when we got to York, decided to cancel the rest of the stops and head straight up to Newcastle.

 

[TUC]

The examples above do suggest a rail system which is focussed upon Manchester, with little consideration of the impact upon North East commuter.

 

[yorkie]

Is there any update on when the tunnel may reopen? Are TPE services likely to be diverted on Thursday, or will it be back to normal by then?

 

[Bald Rick]

Is there any update on when the tunnel may reopen? Are TPE services likely to be diverted on Thursday, or will it be back to normal by then?

Latest is for it to open for start of service Thursday morning. That could change of course. Some fairly heavy duty engineering going on.

 

[Tetragon213]

I do hope this doesn't cause any further setbacks for TRU while they investigate causes and any possible damage to the site.

 

[TUC]

Is that what GBR is all about?

No, because the rail system being built around operational convenience was a familiar compliant in BR days.

 

[David Bullock]

The railway running services for the railway, not the passengers. Little changes, especially with TPE.

im not sure its all 'the tail wagging the dog' - making sure that these delays are not transmitted across the national network does sort of depend on these trains presenting as planned at leeds and manchester as these are the major bottlenecks where lots of bits of the network converge. If it goes wrong there then disruption is much more likely to spread across the country.

thats not to say that two consecutive cancellations at Chester-le-Street is acceptable, but skipping stops and terminating services early is more than just an exercise in box ticking and making the operator look good.

 

[fishwomp]

Latest is for it to open for start of service Thursday morning. That could change of course. Some fairly heavy duty engineering going on.

This is looking like an occasion where the railway has shown it can get itself into gear and get on with what needs to be done quickly. Best of luck to the team on this, spinning up a repair job in this situation within hours of getting access is the very best of 'the railway' spirit.

 

[RGM654]

I'm surprised they weren't able to take water from the canal

No-one seems to have replied to this. Did they actually do that? If not it is indeed surprising.

 

[Lawrence18uk]

im not sure its all 'the tail wagging the dog' - making sure that these delays are not transmitted across the national network does sort of depend on these trains presenting as planned at leeds and manchester as these are the major bottlenecks where lots of bits of the network converge. If it goes wrong there then disruption is much more likely to spread across the country.

thats not to say that two consecutive cancellations at Chester-le-Street is acceptable, but skipping stops and terminating services early is more than just an exercise in box ticking and making the operator look good.

In this situation, presumably taxis make sense?

 

[TUC]

im not sure its all 'the tail wagging the dog' - making sure that these delays are not transmitted across the national network does sort of depend on these trains presenting as planned at leeds and manchester as these are the major bottlenecks where lots of bits of the network converge. If it goes wrong there then disruption is much more likely to spread across the country.

thats not to say that two consecutive cancellations at Chester-le-Street is acceptable, but skipping stops and terminating services early is more than just an exercise in box ticking and making the operator look good.

But there is such a thing as sharing the pain and skipping stops at different stations for each journey.

 

[D1537]

im not sure its all 'the tail wagging the dog' - making sure that these delays are not transmitted across the national network does sort of depend on these trains presenting as planned at leeds and manchester as these are the major bottlenecks where lots of bits of the network converge. If it goes wrong there then disruption is much more likely to spread across the country.

thats not to say that two consecutive cancellations at Chester-le-Street is acceptable, but skipping stops and terminating services early is more than just an exercise in box ticking and making the operator look good.

The ridiculous thing about running 9E05 fast to Newcastle is that unless there is something that we're missing, it wasn't necessary. It was 30 late at York, but it has 37 minutes to spin at Newcastle (plus 3 minutes allowance on its way).

I really hope they weren't trying to minimise the delay repay, because if they were (a) 9E05 isn't that full anyway before it arrives at Northallerton and (b) given the time until the next service, a number of passengers were told to get a taxi to Darlington, which TPE will be paying...

Still, better today. Cancelled from Liverpool, started at York instead, still 30 late.

 

[edwin_m]

The ridiculous thing about running 9E05 fast to Newcastle is that unless there is something that we're missing, it wasn't necessary. It was 30 late at York, but it has 37 minutes to spin at Newcastle (plus 3 minutes allowance on its way).

Could be the crew were rostered to work the return and needed a break in between?

 

[mpthomson]

No-one seems to have replied to this. Did they actually do that? If not it is indeed surprising.

The fire services own postings state that they utilised and open water source, so the canal is a likely option.

 

[800Travel]

Could be the crew were rostered to work the return and needed a break in between?

TPE were starting some services late from Newcastle in order to facilitate crew breaks. So doesn't necessarily require skipped stops on the inbound working

 

[josh-j]

TPE's advice was updated sometimes in the last few hours and now states:

Work to repair the tunnel and reopen the line have been ongoing, and we now expect the line to reopen tomorrow, Thursday 29th January at 05:20.

https://www.tpexpress.co.uk/travel-updates

Previously this said something about not expecting the tunnel to reopen before Thursday 06:00 at the earliest so this sounds like good news!

 

[eastdyke]

The fire services own postings state that they utilised and open water source, so the canal is a likely option.

Dramatic pictures up-thread from 1.5k inside the tunnel!
I don't think it was a water source problem, more of getting it over a distance of 1.5k.
Just connecting a hose doesn't work!

It would have needed staged/relay pumping and larger diameter hose [at least in the initial stages] to reduce pressure loss and then to deliver sufficient quantities of water!
In the open fire tenders can provide the staged pumps, but in the tunnel independent pumps would probably have been brought in.
All would have needed both planning and resource.

I am not sure if RAIB will be reporting [I would expect but do not know].
There could be quite a number of learning points to come from this.

 

[Viper]

I would expect that the adjacent tunnels will have been used to provide access for the fire appliances into the tunnel rather than running equipment from the appliances outside the tunnel.

 

[eastdyke]

Thanks @Viper - would there be room to turn a fire tender to relay water up to the fire? Or can water from the canal be accessed inside a service tunnel?

 

[Viper]

I don't know the logistics personally, however I was reading that the disused tunnels can be used for access, and have personnel access links into the railway tunnel.

 

[josh-j]

Canals are not very deep - I'm not sure whether it would necessarily be a suitable water source for the big pumps they use. So maybe they had to run lines in from outside the tunnel.

All speculation though - they know what they're doing.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Or can water from the canal be accessed inside a service tunnel?

Wikipedia tells us at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standedge_Tunnels that

All four tunnels are linked by cross-tunnels or adits at strategic intervals

So the canal would have been accessible. But whether the water in the canal could have been pumped is another question which I don't know the answer to.

 

[Narrowgauge725]

No-one seems to have replied to this. Did they actually do that? If not it is indeed surprising.

Normal practice is to pump water from the canal from the outside as the shafts linking to the canal inside are not the safest places to work. There is a a design response to the tunnel which makes use of the ‘disused’ tunnels which has cross shafts to both the canal and the live bore. It is just possible, or was in my day, to turn a fire engine around in the ‘cathedral’ which joins the two original tunnels roughly in the centre. The photos show a ground monitor in use which requires a water supply using 64mm hose with intermediate pumps doubling the hose significantly increase the capability to pump water although as the tunnels are level that makes life easier. The canal is for all intents an unlimited supply.