Information on the Fairlop Loop in LNER days.

[Harpo]

The Romford area book also covered Brentwood, Grays and Tilbury

With the bus services (including Eastern National’s) running to ‘Tilbury Ferry’ while BR stuck with ‘Tilbury Riverside’.

 

[Sprinter107]

There was, but it was only a couple of round trips early on Sunday morning before the Underground services started, which possibly accounts for lack of photographs as they were before daylight for half the year. Not apparent, given that the Underground commonly had longer operating times than the Railway, why it was run this way.

More mainstream hours were the goods services, principally household coal to station yard merchants, which continued to the same time, with diesel locos for the last years. I believe all traction running over the line had to have tripcocks.

I was reading in an article, i cant find it at the moment that the class 125s were not fitted with tripcocks, so when working to Epping had to have two drivers. Apparently the destination blinds had Ongar on them, so i wonder if there was a plan for them to work there.

 

[Bevan Price]

My understanding is that the Quadarts (4 coach) were for the GN section, and Quintarts for the GE.

The quad-arts were still working out of Kings Cross when I was working in London (1963/65). They were horribly cramped in the compartments - your knees almost reached the opposite seat.

 

[Taunton]

They were horribly cramped in the compartments - your knees almost reached the opposite seat.

Having stood on the Elizabeth Line from Canary Wharf to Heathrow, I envy you ...

The Great Eastern Quint-Arts (same body sections?) went I think with the substantial GE electrifications in 1961. The Quad-Arts at Kings Cross, hauled at the end by Class 31, lasted until 1969 on peak hour trains, when the Class 125 high-powered dmus from the GE Lea Valley lines were moved over when the latter were electrified.

 

[izvor]

I was reading in that right up until 1970 there was a limited dmu service between Liverpool Street and Epping. Did these dmus also go to Hainault via Woodford, or did they only go to Epping.

There was, but it was only a couple of round trips early on Sunday morning before the Underground services started, which possibly accounts for lack of photographs as they were before daylight for half the year. Not apparent, given that the Underground commonly had longer operating times than the Railway, why it was run this way.

These have always intrigued me, and I really wish I'd had a trip on them while they were running. I guess I was too young to be wandering around London in the early hours - or, more likely, couldn't be ar*ed to get out of bed so early.

AFAIK they never appeared in an ER public timetable, only the LT ones. The timings were bizarre, looking at my 1965 Romford booklet: as @Taunton stated above, 2 round trips early Sunday morning between Epping and Liverpool Street (main line of course), via the old connection at Leyton that was lifted long ago. However the round trips started at Epping and finished at Loughton, so presumably ran out and back light at start and finish. I always assumed that they were to give a service (maybe for Billingsgate market workers, Fleet Street printworkers etc.) before the juice was turned on - but perhaps they were more to preserve route knowledge for the freight trains mentioned above?

There was also (in 1965 anyway) a single Mon-Sat trip at 0350 from Stratford to Epping arr. 0431 but no return service - again strange as the first LT departure was not till 0530.

Apparently the destination blinds had Ongar on them, so i wonder if there was a plan for them to work there.

Interesting, I don't recall seeing timetables giving any of them running out to Ongar, but I'll see what I can find.

Here's the relevant columns from the 1965 area booklet. A WTT might reveal more. (Code A = Only for passengers already holding tickets. Code T = ER station)

 

[Sprinter107]

These have always intrigued me, and I really wish I'd had a trip on them while they were running. I guess I was too young to be wandering around London in the early hours - or, more likely, couldn't be ar*ed to get out of bed so early.

AFAIK they never appeared in an ER public timetable, only the LT ones. The timings were bizarre, looking at my 1965 Romford booklet: as @Taunton stated above, 2 round trips early Sunday morning between Epping and Liverpool Street (main line of course), via the old connection at Leyton that was lifted long ago. However the round trips started at Epping and finished at Loughton, so presumably ran out and back light at start and finish. I always assumed that they were to give a service (maybe for Billingsgate market workers, Fleet Street printworkers etc.) before the juice was turned on - but perhaps they were more to preserve route knowledge for the freight trains mentioned above?

There was also (in 1965 anyway) a single Mon-Sat trip at 0350 from Stratford to Epping arr. 0431 but no return service - again strange as the first LT departure was not till 0530.


Interesting, I don't recall seeing timetables giving any of them running out to Ongar, but I'll see what I can find.

Here's the relevant columns from the 1965 area booklet. A WTT might reveal more. (Code A = Only for passengers already holding tickets. Code T = ER station)

View attachment 196678

Thanks for posting these. Its interesting to see the calling pattern of the dmu services. Interesting to see that there was a Monday to Saturday working too.
It was in the destination blinds section of the brilliant Railcar UK website that it showed details of the blind with Ongar on it.

 

[izvor]

I've also found some interesting info on "BR trains to Epping" on this website.

British Rail on Epping branch? | District Dave's London Underground Site

So, I've recently bought the London Railway Atlas (Second Edition) by Joe Brown, and its definitely a fascinating book. One thing I can't work out though. On the Central Line Epping branch, it

districtdavesforum.co.uk

edit: and more on this old thread.

 

[Harpo]

A photo of the final run of the staff DMU service has been published. I think it’s in ‘London’s East End Diesels’ by Dave Brennand but I can’t check currently.

 

[Taunton]

This area of East London had a long tradition of early Sunday markets, the best known being Petticoat Lane but there were others nearby as well, adjacent to Liverpool Street station, and the early Sunday services initially handled the market traders, and then early riser customers, who lived out in these directions. The ER timetable for 1950 also shows services arriving on Sundays from both Enfield Town and Chingford arriving at 0600 on Sunday, after which there was nothing until the main service started an hour and a half later. These two trains also have timetable footnotes that only those already with tickets could use them. The Shenfield electric service also had three inbound early Sunday trains arriving then, followed by a gap until the main interval service began.

Well known for a long while was the Underground East London Line, with its extension from Whitechapel to Shoreditch, the same area, which only operated at weekday peak hours, but also on Sunday mornings. London buses nearby had a comparable travel peak.

 

[Sprinter107]

I've also found some interesting info on "BR trains to Epping" on this website.

British Rail on Epping branch? | District Dave's London Underground Site

So, I've recently bought the London Railway Atlas (Second Edition) by Joe Brown, and its definitely a fascinating book. One thing I can't work out though. On the Central Line Epping branch, it

districtdavesforum.co.uk

edit: and more on this old thread.

That is interesting. The weekday dmu only goes to Stratford, but the Sunday ones go all the way to Liverpool Street. There mustve been earlier British Rail trains from Stratford into Liverpool Street to connect with on weekdays.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Jan 2026 ==

A photo of the final run of the staff DMU service has been published. I think it’s in ‘London’s East End Diesels’ by Dave Brennand but I can’t check currently.

Ive just looked, and there isn't a photo of that train in that book. Unless maybe there was a second volume perhaps which I dont have.

 

[Harpo]

Ive just looked, and there isn't a photo of that train in that book. Unless maybe there was a second volume perhaps which I dont have

Ok. I’m fairly sure it’s in one of his (thoroughly recommended) books. I’ll be able to check in a couple of days time.

 

[AM9]

That is interesting. The weekday dmu only goes to Stratford, but the Sunday ones go all the way to Liverpool Street. There mustve been earlier British Rail trains from Stratford into Liverpool Street to connect with on weekdays.

There certainly was the 03:45 from LST for all stations to Southend in 1967, - it was a 306 to Southend Victoria and you shared seating with stacks of newspapers.

 

[David Burrows]

I was reading in an article, i cant find it at the moment that the class 125s were not fitted with tripcocks, so when working to Epping had to have two drivers. Apparently the destination blinds had Ongar on them, so i wonder if there was a plan for them to work there.

The DMU*s were not fitted with tripcocks so always had two men in the cab. Presumably Ongar was included in the destination blinds as the DMUs could have got there although never did (after all steam trains ran to Ongar from Epping until November 1957), much in the same way that the GE class 312 emus had Felixstowe on their blinds, which, being unelectrified, they never could have reached, but probably included as they might have done had the branch been electrified during the their life. Easier to put possible ones on when blinds ordered than not be able to display the correct destination if the units did eventually manage to get there.

 

[MP33]

At Ilford depot. There are offices on the old Seven Kings, branch line platforms and there is space going towards Goodmayes for additional track and until fairly recently there was an amount of abandoned and very overgrown track, parallel to the main lines.

 

[AM9]

At Ilford depot. There are offices on the old Seven Kings, branch line platforms and there is space going towards Goodmayes for additional track and until fairly recently there was an amount of abandoned and very overgrown track, parallel to the main lines.

I can remember in the '50s, before the expansion of GE electrification and the conversion of the original 1500VDC to 6.25kVac.The only sheds were the two long ones adjacent to the down electric track. I see from current aerial shots that the Seven Kings end one has now been removed. I think that they were built on the alignment of the Fairlop loop west curve about 1947/8. I can remember the building of the maintenance depot over the east curve around 1959/60 but hadn't seen what was there before that.

 

[Harpo]

Ive just looked, and there isn't a photo of that train in that book. Unless maybe there was a second volume perhaps which I dont have.

Me and books adjacent -

London’s East End Traction by D Brennand, page 110 has the photograph by R Hummerston that I recollected. Its caption reads:

A little known DMU service provided for staff only ran over the London Underground Central Line to Epping and Loughton throughout the 1960s via a connection at Leyton station. This is a Stratford based class 125 Derby 3-car Lea Valley line set approaching South Woodford station with the empty stock for Stratford depot after working the very last service, the 06.56 Liverpool Street to Loughton on 31st May 1970.

For added spice, page 55 has a photo of D8405 at South Woodford on a Loughton to Ramsgate on 19/5/62.

 

[Taunton]

The DMU*s were not fitted with tripcocks so always had two men in the cab. Presumably Ongar was included in the destination blinds as the DMUs could have got there although never did (after all steam trains ran to Ongar from Epping until November 1957),

Stratford got its first dmus in early 1956, the pioneer 'Yellow Diamond' 2-car Metro Cammell sets. I wonder if these were used on the Ongar shuttle in the 18 months or so before it was electrified; they seem ideal for such an isolated duty. Was Epping on the blinds as well?

 

[Harpo]

Stratford got its first dmus in early 1956, the pioneer 'Yellow Diamond' 2-car Metro Cammell sets. I wonder if these were used on the Ongar shuttle in the 18 months or so before it was electrified; they seem ideal for such an isolated duty. Was Epping on the blinds as well?

Four sets of 2 car Mett-Camms are shown in the 1960 LTS carriage working and you’d assume a fifth would have been on maintenance at Stratford. Did that leave many others?

 

[Sprinter107]

Me and books adjacent -

London’s East End Traction by D Brennand, page 110 has the photograph by R Hummerston that I recollected. Its caption reads:

For added spice, page 55 has a photo of D8405 at South Woodford on a Loughton to Ramsgate on 19/5/62.

Thanks for that. Ive got Londons East End Railways part 2, but not Londons East End Traction, so I'll try and find a copy to purchase.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jan 2026 ==

Stratford got its first dmus in early 1956, the pioneer 'Yellow Diamond' 2-car Metro Cammell sets. I wonder if these were used on the Ongar shuttle in the 18 months or so before it was electrified; they seem ideal for such an isolated duty. Was Epping on the blinds as well?

Epping was definitely on the blinds. There's a a photograph of a brand new class 125 in Section 16 of British Rail Fleet Survey Part 8 Diesel Multiple Units. Car E51001 is shown displaying Epping. Its definitely not on the Epping line though.

 

[Taunton]

Four sets of 2 car Mett-Camms are shown in the 1960 LTS carriage working and you’d assume a fifth would have been on maintenance at Stratford. Did that leave many others?

Obviously 1960 was 3 years after the Ongar BR operation ended. The initial dmu allocations were very fluid by the year, although all of East Anglia was a pioneer area. The Railcar site shows by early 1957 they had already changed them over to half a dozen Derby Lightweight 'Yellow Diamond' cars. I believe on the LTS pioneers ran the Romford to Grays operation, straight through until it was cut in half by the Underground extension to their new depot at Upminster. Photos I've seen of these pioneer Stratford cars were at North Woolwich. I believe they also got a lot of use on various short-term shuttles while the electrification wiring was going on.

 

[Harpo]

I believe on the LTS pioneers ran the Romford to Grays operation, straight through until it was cut in half by the Underground extension to their new depot at Upminster.

Yes. In the 1960 carriage workings the LTS jobs are permutations of Upminster - Ockendon - Grays - Tilbury R plus Tilbury R to Pitsea shuttles. Romford - Upminster was doubtless in the GE carriage workings by then.

Its also worth mentioning that DMU excursions were quite popular at this time too, but I have only ever seen photos of hauled excursions associated with the Central Line area.