Mattplans
Member
City Thameslink on a Saturday? The barriers are probably wide open
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Farringdon station closing to Thameslink due to engineering work on Metropolitan line
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City Thameslink on a Saturday? The barriers are probably wide open
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Kite159
Veteran Member
Sadly so, I did see a few revenue hanging around St Pancras around 07;30 this morning mind.
Or they are the sort who will just barge through the barriers without a care in the world.
Mattplans
Member
If they are worried about the Farringdon trick, probably not. There are regularly Revenue at St Pancras. I see them there so often that I wouldn't be surprised if GTR employs RPIs just for that gateline. City Thameslink on the other hand, outside of peak hours you can expect to find the wide access gates open if not for agency staff. Blackfriars is also very good and the gates are rarely open there
tram21
Established Member
You'd have to be cutting it pretty tight for this to cause such a significant issue. Its not that far to walk to St Pancras or alternatively Moorgate for Northern line to there.
It should be possible though because not everyone can hear, and the screens are very visible from almost every part of the train. Take the Victoria Line trains that can announce all sorts of things relating to disruption or planned engineering works, partial closures and more.
When the 700s get their upcoming update to allow control to set the PIS remotely (mobile data) and without the driver having to be involved, I wonder if that will enable them to also download additional messages - as well as being able to add stops as well as remove them. Maybe one day we're a step closer to the PIS being able to give live running info for more than just TfL.. but let's wait and see.
redreni
Established Member
Good prediction: it caught me out today and cost me half an hour.
rmHawk765
Member
As I said, TfL trains do this perfectly when it comes to TfL disruption - not so much for NR disruption, and NR trains seem to not really announce anything at all.
redreni
Established Member
The Thameslink < > Elizabeth Line interchange at Farringdon is one of the most useful rail interchanges in London.
Any decision to close it should not be taken lightly. If there's a serious reason why this closure was unavoidable, it hasn't been communicated. Consequently, rightly or wrongly it feels a lot like a closure for reasons of convenience or cost rather than necessity.
Any decision to close it should not be taken lightly. If there's a serious reason why this closure was unavoidable, it hasn't been communicated. Consequently, rightly or wrongly it feels a lot like a closure for reasons of convenience or cost rather than necessity.
rmHawk765
Member
Absolutely, especially with it basically being cross-platform.
At least ECML users have the interchange at Finsbury to Moorgate, but it is only useful so long as your TL train is not delayed.
A decision to close a station is never taken lightly - and certainly not taken locally for a planned closure like this.
Do an FOI and ask for the Congestion and Control Evacuation Plan* (CCEP) for Farringdon - Appendix A covers "Station Operations where Services are Degraded, there is Planned Engineering Work, or Staff Shortages Occur" (and yes, this covers disruption and/or closures of Elizabeth Line and Thameslink as well as LU.)
The CCEP stipulates the mitigations required for stations to remain open - this could be closing lifts, walkways and exits, and minimum staff numbers.
If there isn't a way to do it safely, it won't be done.
*They might just publish a heavily redacted version.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Err... I think you're thinking of the Thameslink - Circle / H&C / Met connection which is cross platform in one direction and nearly so in the other direction; the Elizabeth Line is quite a long way downstairs and at the east end of the station only.
Peter Sarf
Established Member
I find the Sunday and overnight closure of City Thameslink a nuisance as it is better connected by buses than Blackfriars. Many I know who work in the West End and no longer have the overnight Victoria to Croydon service wish Thameslink was only one bus ride away.
As for Farringdon. The Thameslink platforms are rather narrow at the North/West end so perhaps the way to deal with the extra crowds resulting from no Metropolitain/Circle service is to close the whole lot.
You’re probably right. Those who are not familiar with London will on journey planners anyway which will take into account the disruption; those who don’t use journey planners should be familiar with London enough to devise an alternative plan quickly.
redreni
Established Member
As I say, if there's a good reason for the closure, nobody who made the decision has communicated what it is.
If it is because there would be dangerous overcrowding, isn't that slightly embarrassing for a station that has recently been expensively rebuilt?
And as others have mentioned, if the idea was to prevent people alighting from the Elizabeth Line at Farringdon intending to change for the tube or Thameslink, announcing on arrival at Farringdon that those interchanges aren't available would seem to be an indispensable part of the plan, but it wasn't done. It's amazing how doing things that might be difficult are deemed unsafe so that they don't need to be done, while at the same time, doing things that might require a bit of effort but would improve safety - like making announcements - doesn't seem to be a priority. If announcements were made, people wanting the Metropolitan, Hammersmith & City or Circle lines wouldn't alight at Farringdon anyway, meaning you wouldn't have significantly more passengers changing for Thameslink than you usually do (unless they want Kings Cross/St Pancras).
Closing a station simply because it's too hard to make an onboard announcement on arriving Elizabeth Line trains seems very poor.
If it is because there would be dangerous overcrowding, isn't that slightly embarrassing for a station that has recently been expensively rebuilt?
And as others have mentioned, if the idea was to prevent people alighting from the Elizabeth Line at Farringdon intending to change for the tube or Thameslink, announcing on arrival at Farringdon that those interchanges aren't available would seem to be an indispensable part of the plan, but it wasn't done. It's amazing how doing things that might be difficult are deemed unsafe so that they don't need to be done, while at the same time, doing things that might require a bit of effort but would improve safety - like making announcements - doesn't seem to be a priority. If announcements were made, people wanting the Metropolitan, Hammersmith & City or Circle lines wouldn't alight at Farringdon anyway, meaning you wouldn't have significantly more passengers changing for Thameslink than you usually do (unless they want Kings Cross/St Pancras).
Closing a station simply because it's too hard to make an onboard announcement on arriving Elizabeth Line trains seems very poor.
Sorry, but this is simply a figment of your imagination based on an uniformed opinion posited by yourself.
Mattplans
Member
They left Farringdon open during the recent LU strike so I doubt the reason for the closure would have been about overcrowding. There were clear measures during that week to prevent overcrowding and a lot of staff including a lot of suits were about.
Despite this, it's my understanding the station still had to close the station a couple of times during the evening peaks due to the sheer amount of people who were diverted here using Thameslink and Elizabeth Line. So perhaps there's been changes in reflection of that strike week. But, you'd never be expecting as many people in the station as you were on the evening peak of a week day when there were no other London Underground services operating.
redreni
Established Member
Why aren't suitable announcements made on the Elizabeth Line when the usual connections aren't available, then?
The notion that if such announcements could have been arranged, this would have been sufficient mitigation for possible overcrowding on the Thameslink platforms (since it would have deterred people wanting the tube alighting at Farringdon and being displaced onto Thameslink) is both speculative and uninformed, I grant you. But announcements definitely ought to have been made regardless, and they weren't (and never are), so not everything is exactly as it should be, is it?
There needn't be speculation as to why this important interchange was closed if TfL had announced, in any degree of detail, the reason for the closure. When organisations aren't prepared to explain their actions, it is difficult for outsiders to know if adequate consideration was given to less disruptive alternatives.
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I may be missing something but where is this stated? The TfL website, 6 month lookahead, and journey planners still says Mile End is open next weekend for District line services, and Mile End is not listed as being closed on the weekly station closure posters.
Oops, my mistake. I was looking at May not February!
Yes, you are correct in saying it's open, but closed in mid-May in connection with rail grinding on the Central Line.
The District line train I was on this evening said at Aldgate East to “change here for Hammersmith and City line via King’s Cross St Pancras” with no mention of the fact that no such trains are running.
Mattplans
Member
Update: a late finish to the LU engineering works means trains still cannot call at Farringdon.
The Met line service was advertised as resumed from 06:15, so it wouldn’t have been anywhere as near as the full frequency through The City at that time of the day, especially given in the timetable there are quite a lot of trains that start at Baker St (platforms 4,2 and 1) that time of the day.
Yes, however, how many tph were the two platforms reversing throughout that weekend in general?
On the weekend, there are usually 8tph to Uxbridge, 4tph to Watford and 2tph each to Amersham/Chesham. I am wondering if that service pattern was unchanged and the full 16tph were being reversed across the two bay platforms at Baker Street which I suspect may have been the case as every southbound train was going to Baker Street, with nothing being turned at Wembley Park or Harrow on the Hill.
The Watford and Amersham/Chesham were not reduced in frequency, perhaps Uxbridge was reduced from 8 to 6tph
On the weekend, there are usually 8tph to Uxbridge, 4tph to Watford and 2tph each to Amersham/Chesham. I am wondering if that service pattern was unchanged and the full 16tph were being reversed across the two bay platforms at Baker Street which I suspect may have been the case as every southbound train was going to Baker Street, with nothing being turned at Wembley Park or Harrow on the Hill.
The Watford and Amersham/Chesham were not reduced in frequency, perhaps Uxbridge was reduced from 8 to 6tph
bluegoblin7
Established Member
Watford services were running to/from Harrow over the weekend, reversing empty via Neasden depot and the fast lines. A full Uxbridge and Amer/Chesham service can easily be accounted off Baker 1 and 4.
With the LSP this morning nowhere near a full service would have been out, although some trains were cancelled out of Neasden on the south and re-entered next trip on the north.
With the LSP this morning nowhere near a full service would have been out, although some trains were cancelled out of Neasden on the south and re-entered next trip on the north.
bluegoblin7
Established Member
No, Harrow as stated, empty to/from Neasden.
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